Proserpina

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Did Jung live with schizophrenia?

Jung used the terms “psychosis” and “schizophrenia” to describe some of his own experiences. However, he would not fit the criteria for a diagnosis today.

At 38 years old, Jung began hearing voices and having visions. He saw this as a gateway to the unconscious mind, so he actively pursued these visions and hallucinations to explore them further.

One important criterion for a modern diagnosis of schizophrenia is that it interrupts your daily life. However, Jung reported the ability to enter this state of mind as he pleased. That makes his experience of psychosis unlike that of people who receive a schizophrenia diagnosis today.

In his book, “Memories, Dreams, and Reflections,” Jung explains that he used active imagination to induce his hallucinations at will. According to Jung, in active imagination you latch onto a dream or fantasy image in your mind, which eventually leads to psychic processes taking over to animate it.

Between appointments, he would enter this state to better understand the unconscious mind. He explains, “In order to grasp the fantasies… in me ‘underground,’ I knew that I had to let myself plummet down into them.”

Jung believed he had to “gain power” over his hallucinations so he could better understand his patients.

Jung saw schizophrenia as an “abaissement du niveau mental” — a relaxed state of mind where the contents of your subconscious are more likely to rise to the surface. From the French, the term translates to “lowering of the mental level,” but some describe it as “lowering of the level of consciousness.”

He compared it to the experience that occurs in dreams. He used a word association test to dig deeper into the psyche of his patients because he believed “every association belongs to some complex.”

Mental health experts of that time referred to schizophrenia by the term dementia praecox. Jung’s work focused on the similarities between dementia praecox, dreams, and the now outdated concept of “hysteria.”

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Psychosis. An extreme dissociation of the personality. Like neurosis, a psychotic condition is due to the activity of unconscious complexes and the phenomenon of splitting. In neurosis, the complexes are only relatively autonomous. In psychosis, they are completely disconnected from consciousness.

To have complexes is in itself normal; but if the complexes are incompatible, that part of the personality which is too contrary to the conscious part becomes split off. If the split reaches the organic structure, the dissociation is a psychosis, a schizophrenic condition, as the term denotes. Each complex then lives an existence of its own, with no personality left to tie them together. [“The Tavistock Lectures,” CW 18, par. 382.]

[In schizophrenia] the split-off figures assume banal, grotesque, or highly exaggerated names and characters, and are often objectionable in many other ways. They do not, moreover, co-operate with the patient’s consciousness. They are not tactful and they have no respect for sentimental values. On the contrary, they break in and make a disturbance at any time, they torment the ego in a hundred ways; all are objectionable and shocking, either in their noisy and impertinent behaviour or in their grotesque cruelty and obscenity. There is an apparent chaos of incoherent visions, voices, and characters, all of an overwhelmingly strange and incomprehensible nature. [“On the Psychogenesis of Schizophrenia,” CW 3, par. 508.]

Jung believed that many psychoses, and particularly schizophrenia, were psychogenic, resulting from an abaissement du niveau mental and an ego too weak to resist the onslaught of unconscious contents. He reserved judgment on whether biological factors were a contributing cause.

Active imagination

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In the latter case you choose a dream, or some other fantasy-image, and concentrate on it by simply catching hold of it and looking at it. You can also use a bad mood as a starting-point, and then try to find out what sort of fantasy-image it will produce, or what image expresses this mood. You then fix this image in the mind by concentrating your attention. Usually it will alter, as the mere fact of contemplating it animates it. The alterations must be carefully noted down all the time, for they reflect the psychic processes in the unconscious background, which appear in the form of images consisting of conscious memory material. In this way conscious and unconscious are united, just as a waterfall connects above and below.  (Carl Jung: The Conjunction, CW 14, par. 706.)

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Although, to a certain extent, he looks on from outside, impartially, he is also an acting and suffering figure in the drama of the psyche. This recognition is absolutely necessary and marks an important advance. So long as he simply looks at the pictures he is like the foolish Parsifal, who forgot to ask the vital question because he was not aware of his own participation in the action. [An allusion to the medieval Grail legend. The question Parsifal failed to ask was, "Whom does the Grail serve?" ]. But if you recognize your own involvement you yourself must enter into the process with your personal reactions, just as if you were one of the fantasy figures, or rather, as if the drama being enacted before your eyes were real. (The Conjunction, CW 14, par. 753.)

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The judging attitude implies a voluntary involvement in those fantasy-processes which compensate the individual and-in particular-the collective situation of consciousness. The avowed purpose of this involvement is to integrate the statements of the unconscious, to assimilate their compensatory content, and thereby produce a whole meaning which alone makes life worth living and, for not a few people, possible at all. (The Conjunction, par. 756.)

Similar to active imagination: 

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Your thoughts are powerful, attractive magnets—attracting one to another. - Abraham Hicks

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The law of attraction is so very powerful that when you hold a thought for as little as 17 seconds , another thought like it will join it. - Abraham Hicks

Edited by Proserpina

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Active imagination exploring characters from psychosis

The cruel leader/shadow animus

  • Smiles a sinister smile
  • Stabs me straight through, my insides pouring out
  • Holds me down to the floor and proceeds to molest me
  • Removes my jaw

The Angel/integrated animus

  • Holds out a sword of truth
  • Closes a box that holds all the evils of my mind
  • Levitates in a meditative position and stares into my heart, awakening me
  • Tells me ‘not to look’ 

 


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I have an issue with lying/being false and over-honesty and sometimes it comes up to bite me.


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On 9/16/2022 at 9:50 AM, Proserpina said:

I have an issue with lying/being false and over-honesty and sometimes it comes up to bite me.

Hi. Hit me up with something truthful, but not arrogantly so.

(hope you don't mind me posting here)

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2 minutes ago, Vajra said:

Hi. Hit me up with something truthful, but not arrogantly so.

(hope you don't mind me posting here)

No, I don’t mind.  I tell white lies frequently.  And I lied about being behind the keyboard when it was my partner and when I was honest about it it came up to bite me (bf broke up with me).  That’s what I mean.

 Not big, big lies.


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4 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

No, I don’t mind.  I tell white lies frequently.  And I lied about being behind the keyboard when it was my partner and when I was honest about it it came up to bite me (bf broke up with me).  That’s what I mean.

 Not big, big lies.

Well, truth is nice :) It can be volnurable sometimes, but really ... what a Value if we can do it anyway! It makes space for who we really are and for who others really are. It makes space for True Connection. It's beautiful.

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9 minutes ago, Vajra said:

Well, truth is nice :) It can be volnurable sometimes, but really ... what a Value if we can do it anyway! It makes space for who we really are and for who others really are. It makes space for True Connection. It's beautiful.

I agree.  Beautifully stated.  Love your YouTube channel btw. 
 

 


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Although the higher part of me, the more conscious part of me feels like everything is fine.  That we’ve simply spent too much time together and now we rub each other the wrong way.  But we really do love each other.  Deep down.  We only need time a part to re-realise it. 


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First step to leaning back when you are leaning too far forward is realising that there is nothing wrong with that.  That it is a characteristic to even be proud of, rather than ashamed of even if it repels others.  Being liked isn’t the end all, be all.

Pros of leaning very far forward: 

Feminine polarity

Suffering is catalyst

Diamond, under high pressure

Mystics are often this type

 

Leaning very far forward feels like:

 literally leaning forward

Deprivation

femininity

showering attention 

being taken for granted

 giving, giving, giving

 humility

 being talked down to

Ugliness

less than

beauty (when combined with leaning back) 

Echo (empath)

 other love

 

leaning very far back feels like: 

literally leaning back

 abundance

 masculinity

 recieving, recieving, recieving

narcissus

Self love

 

leaning forward DESPITE flaws and difficulties = the more leaning forward

.

Describing the same energy- 

Blessed are the poor in spirit, 

for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are those who mourn

for they will be comforted.

Blessed are the meek

for they will inherit the earth.

6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness

for they will be filled.

7Blessed are the merciful

for they will be shown mercy.

8Blessed are the pure in heart

for they will see God.

9Blessed are the peacemakers

for they will be called sons of God.

10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, 

for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Edited by Proserpina

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Active imagination: 

Cruel leader/shadow animus:

  •  caresses my hair, tells me everything will be okay
  •  leads me to a room of people, his followers
  •  they seem friendly.  They send me energy to awaken me.
  •  I’m led to a throne

 The Angel/integrated animus: 

  • He stands tall and erect.  With a sword in his hands. On guard
  • He turns his head, his eyes piercing into mine.  He nods at me.
  •  He allows other archetypes to move through my psyche. He seems much more fluid, less overly protective
  •  He cuts me through with the sword and inside a shimmering liquid pours out

 notes:

 great improvement  in the cruel leader/shadow animus

I’m curious what kind of awakenings I could induce through active imagination.

Edited by Proserpina

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5 hours ago, Proserpina said:

First step to leaning back when you are leaning too far forward is realising that there is nothing wrong with that.  That it is a characteristic to even be proud of, rather than ashamed of even if it repels others.  Being liked isn’t the end all, be all.

Pros of leaning very far forward: 

Feminine polarity

Suffering is catalyst

Diamond, under high pressure

Mystics are often this type

In other words first step in overcoming the anxious attachment is seeing it’s validity and worth, like empathy and love.

Anxious attachment is notorious for being sticky and difficult to rid. Over attachment is suffering. It has to be appreciated.

 


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STAGES OF ANIMA DEVELOPMENT IN MEN

1. Women as mother - He needs a mommy to take care of him.

In this first stage, a man’s anima is completely tied up with the mother. She is not necessarily his personal mother but the image of a woman that is a faithful provider of nourishment, security, and love. She represents all that is natural, instinctual, and biological.223 A man with an anima complex of this type cannot function well without a vital connection to a woman, and is easy prey of being controlled and exploited by her. He frequently suffers from impotence or has no sexual desire at all, and is therefore called a mama’s boy. This type of anima possession also manifests through fear of accidents or disease, or in a sort of dullness of personality. The Greek Sirens and the German Lorelei personify these dangerous aspects of the anima, which may even lead a man to his death over a lost love relationship through suicide.

2. Women as sex object - He wants her to make him feel good.

In the second stage, the anima is a collective sexual image. She is a Marilyn Monroe, Madonna, or Playboy model. Men in stage two are often Don Juans who see all women as sex objects, and engage in repeated sexual adventures, sometimes developing into sexual addictions. These relationships are invariably short-lived, because he is not faithful, is always looking for his next conquest, and no woman can ever live up to his unrealistic image of the ideal female partner.

3. Women as wife - He wants her loyalty and support.

In the third stage of his anima complex development, a man becomes ready to care for a wife and be devoted to his family. He is the loving protector and provider that women in the equivalent stage three of their animus development seek. Men with this anima accept their partner as she is, as long as she fulfills her role as supportive, undemanding, caring, and faithful wife, available sex partner, and loving mother to his children. His sexuality is usually integrated into their relationship and not an autonomous function that drives him. He can differentiate between love and lust, which allows him to create a lasting partnership (if she stays), because he can tell the difference between the objects of his sexual desire and the benefits of being a faithful partner/husband.

4. Women as guide to creativity and awakening - He struggles with her need for independence.

In the fourth stage, a man’s anima functions as a guide to his inner life. As women in this stage become emotionally and financially independent from men, they often turn away and abandon their partners against their will. This challenges him to seek other sources of fulfillment, happiness, aliveness, passion, joy, purpose, peace, and love. Through his quest arises a desire to answer life’s deeper questions of “who am I,” “where do I come from,” “why am I here,” “what is the meaning of my life,” “what should I do,” “what is my purpose,” and “where do I go”? Contemplating these questions, reading books like the one that you are holding right now, meditating, or seeking a bond with others on a similar path in men’s groups, New Age churches, and personal growth workshops allow him to bring deeper levels of his unconscious anima into his awareness. This leads to a liberating process of awakening to his authentic nature, true purpose, genuine passions, and capacity to love unconditionally that are independent from a partnership with a woman.224 On the flipside, he may show behaviors that are usually described as a midlife crisis,225 become commitment phobic, avoid deeper intimacy with women altogether, or engage in serial monogamy or polyamory,226 since he does not want to sacrifice his newfound freedom or to be limited by one partnership. This partial awakening (the idea of living alone is not Integral, fully realized, or the ultimate realization of human development) is transcended when a man enters stage five of his anima development.

5. Women as equal partner - He meets her as an opposite and equal partner.

Similar to a woman in this stage (see below), a man in stage five of his anima complex development has accepted the fact that conflicts and ambivalence are intrinsic to human relationships, and sees how their resolution contributes to his ongoing healing, personal growth, and spiritual realization. He feels confident, secure, and comfortable to authentically express his sexual essence (which tends to be masculine in heterosexual men), while he embraces his feminine (anima).227 This allows him to invite differing views, experiences, and feelings of his female partner without feeling threatened, offended, or puzzled by them. Her authentic stage-five feminine qualities naturally complement his masculinity and vice versa. Since he has found his own purposeful identity that does not depend on her inspiration, support, or approval, he appreciates his partner’s independent authority,228 and doesn’t feel responsibility, shame, or insecurity if she is unhappy—even though he shows empathy, care, and devotion—and enjoys when she is happy. He neither clings, nor pushes her away, but fully opens to embrace her at all levels of his being when they are together, and stays content and fulfilled when they are apart. This allows him to enter into a mature monogamous relationship of opposites and equals from which radically new life experiences, emotional healing processes, and deeper spiritual realizations that often become the foundation for altruistic acts of kindness and service towards others emerge.

 

STAGES OF ANIMUS DEVELOPMENT IN WOMEN 

1. Men as alien outsiders - She fears, hates, and loves him.

Because of abuse or abandonment from men that she identified with during childhood, such as a father, father figure, older brother, uncle, or family friend, a woman in this stage completely denies and suppresses her animus as alien inside and outside of herself. She trusts her mother and other females, while she distrusts, hates, or fears men. This is often countered by a strange curiosity about men, which she cannot differentiate. This ambivalence can make her extremely seductive, needy, and clingy, and cause severe symptoms of the “seduce and withhold”230 syndrome. As soon as a man gets close to her she withdraws, only to come back to ask for more after he becomes distant. She can break the heart of a weak man who tries to prove that he is different, attempts to rescue her from her fears, and so becomes codependent231 as she lures him into her pathological cat and mouse game. Within the limits of her domain in household, family, and female-oriented work environment (e.g., school teacher, nurse, artist, gardener, therapist, healer, working with animals, etc.), such a woman may seem grounded and self-confident. Outside those limits, she leaves the work and responsibility to men and more mature women.232

2. Men as father, God, or king - She wants his approval.

The self-esteem of a woman in this stage is directly connected to the response and approval that she receives from men. She is often driven by a need to be seen as the most attractive female, and constantly monitors her value by her internalized masculine judgment and through externalized male reflection. This may lead to a split in her personality when she imitates male behavior to be liked by them, and at other times presents herself as a sexually seductive femme fatale (such as in the movie Basic Instinct) to be desired. She either hides behind a feminine mask of beautiful appearance, graceful charming manner, and entertaining wit, or develops a tom boyish attitude through teasing, competing, and challenging, or some other facade that suggests success. Women in this stage gravitate towards men that they perceive to be more attractive, intelligent, and exciting than they could ever be themselves. They often try to live up to men by dietary restrictions, vigorous physical exercising, adapting to their intellectual interests, developing new talents, and being sexually available to become the perfect mate. If a woman remains in this stage, she is at great risk of entering a profound depression when her beauty and sexual attractiveness wane, and the number of heads that she is turning, and men who admire her diminishes. She may then isolate herself from all intimate relationships, because her perfectionism overrides her ability to be compassionate and to forgive her own and others’ mistakes. This may lead her to withdraw into a cold and bitter self-denial in which her anxieties create all kinds of psychosomatic illnesses, such as panic attacks, vomiting, heart problems, fatigue, and body aches. A strong, conscious, and patient man (or a good psychotherapist) can support a woman in this stage to find her own worth, passions, and identity, independent of male approval, which then allows her to enter into stage three.233

3. Men as hero - She wants him to take care of her.

Women in stage three seek a man as protector and provider with strength, courage, and ability, who can meet her needs, cherish her, and whom she wants to marry. He represents her ideal (and often unrealistic) image of the knight in shining armor who fulfills her expectations for good looks, intelligence, solid reputation, stable finances, generosity, loyalty, humor, kindness, care, integrity, and faithfulness. To be in a good bargaining position, this woman will focus on her appearance, health/fitness, and adapting to the world of men by seeking a higher education, pursuing a career, fighting for social justice, or saving a failing business. She will appear as self-affirming and expects something in return. She functions well in the competitive world of men, sees herself as equal, is willing to share responsibilities, and will contribute and perform as long as her partner is able to provide more in return, since women want to marry up. As long as he meets her expectations for financial security, social status, and devotion, she will support him to achieve his full potential while often denying such achievements to herself. This can lead to feelings of resentment and anger when she sees that she has been “denied” the right to experience her own competence, and when her partner/husband fails to live up to her ever-growing expectations. Some women in this stage will enter an inward journey once they become aware of the transitory nature of their physical attractiveness, ability to succeed with men, and limitations of finding acceptance in the male world. This may lead them to the restoration of their female authority 234 as they take responsibility for their own identity once they have moved into stage four of their animus complex development.235

4. Men as independent beings - She wants her independence.

A woman in stage four makes an active choice in favor of her self-interest and self-fulfillment—independent of a partner or husband. This transition takes place with the realization that she has constructed her own experiences throughout her lifetime in relationship to men, and now wants to find her own identity. She will stop trying to be perfect in all things in order to please her partner (who was a heroic father figure in the previous stage), as she becomes emotionally free from his approval and support. Having discovered her own source of worthiness and foundation, she is working to restore her female authority. Financial independence through her own labor or through other sources of money that are often only available to women, such as “divorcing well,” alimony and child-support payments, generous lovers, support from parents, or Social Security benefits, are the prerequisite for this transition. You will notice if your partner enters into stage four of her animus development when she starts to challenge you, cares less about your needs, seeks her financial independence, and refuses to take responsibility for holding your relationship together. If you are in partnership with a woman in this stage, it is important to know that it is not your fault that her pain of staying will eventually be greater than her fear of leaving, and that there is nothing you can do but to take care of yourself emotionally 236 and sexually, protect the financial assets that are legitimately yours (if you have to, with the help of a CPA or lawyer), and, if you can, support her with love and compassion in her transition. Once separated and/or divorced, she will feel free from the evaluation and needs of men for the first time in her life. These newly single women are then much occupied with challenging work, their animals and children, social activities, educational advancements, maintaining their household, hobbies, world-travel, and their friendships.237 At the same time, they look down at women who show more feminine or balanced qualities and who desire to be (or are) in a committed partnership with a man. To women in stage four, partnered women still seem to be in the pitiful stage two or three of dependence on a male partner (which they have just escaped). However, married women may have actually advanced into stage five, which women in stage four cannot fathom yet. They discredit partnered women as unevolved and often compete with them in merciless ways. Women in stage four frequently break with the conventional role of caring mother, show tough love, and feel fulfilled outside a partnership with a man. Still, there remains an underlying fear of abandonment, especially in older women, when concerns about the disappearance of their skills and autonomy in the midst of a crisis arise. This often leads to feelings of ambivalence. On one side there is a secret longing for the stability and support that a partnership with a man could provide during times of stress, fatigue, loneliness, or desire for sex. On the other side there is the fear of becoming emotionally dependent, used, and dominated again. Frequent complaints about the lack of good men who are physically fit and attractive, highly intelligent, successful, accomplished, mature, kind, loving, generous, evolved, supportive, spiritual, and available when they need/want them, but who remain flexible, undemanding, and unattached otherwise, are a hallmark of women in stage four.238 Becoming men-hating diehard singles, settling for “friends with benefits” whom they string a long, or serial monogamy are often the only solutions that seem to solve their dilemma. It is not your fault if you get mixed messages, are rejected, or are ignored altogether by women in stage four that you try to date or get a commitment from, as these women are highly independent, endlessly demanding, impossible to please, and commitmentphobic.239 This is, of course, no problem for men who have entered stage four of their own anima development, which many single males and females falsely see as the highest stage of their personal and spiritual development (as in, I am so whole and complete, I don’t need a partner to complete me). If you have matured into stage five and meet a woman who is at the end of her animus stage four development, then you may be able to patiently support her to transition into stage five and find a wonderful partner in her.

5. Men as equal partners - She wants him as an equal and opposite partner.

Just as a man, a woman in stage five of her animus development has accepted that conflict and ambivalence are intrinsic to human relationships, and realized the significance of a partnership to balance her further psychological growth and spiritual awakening.240 Having fully claimed her own authority after transcending her animus complex, she no longer sees men as alien, superior, inferior, or independent. The realization that the idea of living and going it alone was a distorted conception of human existence emerges in her, because we never live alone. She sees that in being human we have a variety of economic, physical, sexual, psychological, and spiritual needs that cannot be met by living alone. At last she has the insight that a balanced personality always develops in a self-other conception, and never through the discovery of an independent self.241 This woman then desires the material, intellectual, emotional, sexual, and spiritual synergy that is co-created with a man who meets her as an opposite and equal (which means opposite feminine and masculine polarities with equal levels of consciousness, rights, and responsibilities). Since she may have never experienced a stage five partnership, she needs guidance from a man (like you?) at the same stage of his anima development, who is able to meet her in an integrally informed way. These couples can then form interdependent242 partnerships in which they heal, learn, grow, and enjoy family and social activities together, while contributing to the well-being of others.243

 


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I have a dark animus that tormented me during my second half of my second psychosis.  I’m working to integrate and transform him.  The animus during my first and the first half of my second psychosis was highly evolved and integrated.  I’m not sure why there was a sudden dip. Perhaps it was training wheels before then and my psyche felt safe enough to explore other parts of the masculine, darker sides, within me to integrate and transform.

 Generally, outside psychosis I would place myself at 4.


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Exploration of the Animus and shadow makes it much easier to access the Self.  The Self shines through. 


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Active imagination- asking questions

 Cruel leader/shadow animus

 Why did you hurt me?

  •  Power
  • Lust, canabalism
  • projection

 

Pure shadow

 Why did you hurt me?

  • Poor leadership
  • Protection
  • Lust, canabalism

 

The Angel/integrated animus

 Why did you leave?

  • I fell asleep
  •  inner corruption
  •  reflection

 how can I get back to you?

  •  Loyalty to beauty
  •  active imagination
  •  take what arises from active imagination seriously

 

 

 

Edited by Proserpina

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Active imagination - characters from psychosis

 Cruel leader/shadow animus

  • My head severed from my body
  • the ‘old’ leader appears before he turned extremely cruel
  •  Breathes life into me ( actually impacts my heart centre)
  • Consumes the flesh of my head

 The Angel/integrated animus

  •  Hear: ‘It’s you, my darling’
  • ’everything will be alright. I’ve got you’
  • ’I want to stay with you’
  • ’strengthen what bonds us’

 notes: 

dipped down into a dense shadow again and then dipped back up

 


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Active imagination can give you an idea as to what you are attracting into your life.  It’s very similar to dreaming, one of the last steps in LOA.  If you can give space and be mindful of the darkness then it can transform, otherwise it may lay dormant and sneak up on you.

Edited by Proserpina

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Active imagination - characters from psychosis

Cruel leader/shadow animus

  • Flowing love from the sky, radiant pure light
  • calls to me, asking me to come to him
  •  a black spear falls from the sky
  • toxic fumes spill everywhere
  • he tells me to come

 question: why did you hurt me?

  • ego backlash

 Why did you experience ego backlash?

  • he turns away, lips pressed together but tells me to come to him
  •  this is a sudden weakness that wasn’t there before

 How can you experience ego backlash?

  • he is a spirit/manifestation that can penetrate reality
  • he is humanity (and my animus)

 The Angel/integrated animus

  •  The old vision I had is present (when my kundalini and heart chakra flew open)
  • Our hands touch.  We are one with two perspectives
  • he inserts himself into me.  I am taken back into the vision. 
  • we move as one and my heart is open. Beautiful energies are everywhere

 

Edited by Proserpina

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During awakenings… it’s very scary only at first.  Your so called ‘person’  might have a breakdown (and reality might put things into place to avoid that) and the shadow will arise.  But you could just sit and stare into yourself for an eternity while the ‘npc’ did all manner of horrendous things. You are endlessly intelligent, and brilliant and the greatest lover. 

You will feel simultaneously totally not alone (you will feel the least alone in your entire life with yourself) and totally alone.  The latter can be frightening at first especially if you are going for long periods of time in an intense state of awakening and have no idea what is going on.

Edited by Proserpina

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