Just How much of reality is imaginary

[Someone here]

Imaginary is just another word for conceptual.  You don't appreciate how much of your reality is actually fantasy and imagination vs actual. 

The external objective world is imaginary. 

What do i mean by this?  You are projecting the idea that what you are experiencing right now has a deeper independent reality to it. Which you call the external objective world. You Believe the world exists when you are not perceiving it. 

 recognize it’s a more of convoluted belief system that requires extra mind baggage.. that careful.. objective.. direct study of experience and reality does not need. In fact.. if you studied your direct experience long enough you’d notice all sensory perception has no solidity to it at all.. it’s just a fluid.. spacious.. fluctuating field of is-ness popping into and out of a void. the “objective” reality science thinks is out there is quite literally impossible if they knew what they were actually studying, which is perception. The thoughts that think there’s an objective layer are also popping into and out of this void. This  requires an extremely stable...mindful concentration of what is really happening vs what your mind thinks is happening. 

However your consciousness of the present moment is actual. regardless of whether you deny perception/consciousness, it’s here, it’s primary, it’s completely undeniable. Any extra metaphysical claims about the substance of reality are subject to unfalsifiable skepticism. 

The truth of the matter is that any thought cannot be Absolutely True due to the nature of thoughts existing as functions of time which is of course an illusion constructed by the mind.. the fact that thoughts are symbolic representations of reality (the map is not the territory).. and finally.. the fact that all reason and rationality will always dissolve into an infinite regress of reason where one must eventually concede that they’re taking on a belief. 

.

And again.. It's impossible to prove an objective external world outside of your imagination due to the nature of conscious experience only having the ability to exist as experience. Consciousness is all you have to prove a world. So you are always using consciousness as the actual substance of inquiry and you cannot step outside of consciousness to verify is something outside of consciousness. 

When you give your back to the world your mind assumes there is a world behind you.. You do this because you need to create reality.. Because If you don't create it.. It doesn't exist. If you stop assuming anything on top of what is "actual".. You would see the only actual thing is nothing.     You think the phone that you are holding is actual.. It's not.. There is no phone.. Each moment there is a changing appearance but your mind comes in and create out of this groundless flow an illusion of "object". There are no objects. Each moment you are holding a new phone.  Because.... 

Consistency is imaginary. 

You think you are the same person living in the same world all the time. and you are not recognizing that each moment a new reality is constructed and its constantly fluctuating. if not for your memory which gives the illusion of consistency. Which is of course completely imaginary. Notice : you are literally imagining your memories and your past. 

You might look at your Hand and you might think that your hand is consistent.. But actually object's permanence is conceptual. There is no "hand" to begin with as a physical "object". It changes every millisecond. Takes different locations in time and space. So It has no consistency from this pov. The consistency is imagined 

Your hand is literally not consistent. Just because the mind constructs the consistency. it’s actually a different hand each second . The shape.. Location and position have all changed. Moment by moment, some facet of direct experience has changed. Even your hands are not  the same hands  while staring at it  moment by moment. Whether one’s level of consciousness is capable of observing the fluctuations in perception and see through the illusion of consistency is a different matter. 

My point is.. Almost 90 % of your reality has nothing to do with reality. It's imaginary.  But as you can see...these imaginations are so important to your sense of reality and to your stability and functionality.. Without the imagination of the external world and of consistency you might have a mental breakdown. That explains why it's hard to see through the illusion and awaken to the truth. 

 

 

[The0Self]

@Someone here Reality is what the individual will seem to undoubtedly call this, when a false claim about this is “this is real.”

[Someone here]

@The0Self forgot to add that the individual is imaginary. 

[Adamq8]

?????

[Victor Nunes]

Reality is all that it is. Reality is Being and Being is Reality. Pure act. Everything is in God’s imagination. Our imagination is just a copy of Its Imagination.

We cannot be innocent in a way that we think we can create things as God. We can just transform things that already exist in our mode.
 

That is our part in this reality, beta world, our reality. 

Now, if you go to other levels of reality so you can touch a little bit in God’s reality. But as soon as you are writing here, you are just a human trying to communicate your thinking by those bunch of signals we call words.

[VeganAwake]

Just the important parts 

[Dodo]

100% imaginary, made to look realistic and structured by the dance of numbers 

[WaveInTheOcean]

All of it, except you as this ineffable eternal infinite Love/God/Consciousness you are.

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Dodo said:

100% imaginary

Dreams are indistinguishable from reality.  What's the difference between imagination and realness? 

55 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

 except you as this ineffable eternal infinite Love/God/Consciousness you are.

This is utter imagination and fantasy. 

This path is really tricky. 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Someone here

[Dodo]

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Dreams are indistinguishable from reality.  What's the difference between imagination and realness? 

This is utter imagination and fantasy. 

 

realness=consequences of actions, realness = pain/pleasure duality, realness = imagination + logic. Dreams at night = imagination free of logic..

But realness still has imagination as its root. Realness definitely though has different feel than imagination - for example in imagination you can jump off a cliff and fly, in realness you fall and fking die - you see the difference  Thats the logic factor at work. You cant fly without the necessary equipment/wings... While in pure imagination you sure can 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Dodo

[Someone here]

11 minutes ago, Dodo said:

realness=consequences of actions, realness = pain/pleasure duality, realness = imagination + logic. Dreams at night = imagination free of logic..

But realness still has imagination as its root. Realness definitely though has different feel than imagination - for example in imagination you can jump off a cliff and fly, in realness you fall and fking die - you see the difference  Thats the logic factor at work. You cant fly without the necessary equipment/wings... While in pure imagination you sure can 

First of all... Recognize that all this is your imagination.  You're imagining logic and nights and dreams. None of them exists in your direct experience. Right now.

The general idea is if you try to pinpoint what is actual vs what is imaginary in your direct experience.. Notice that you can't. Because whatever you say isn't actually "there".. It's what your mind is constructing. Get that?  A chair is not a "chair". 

And.. It has nothing to do with what's possible and what's impossible. You can Dream of a possibility that you can't jump and fly... And you can dream of a possibility that you can jump and fly.  Yet both are imaginary (dreams). 

The fabric of imagination is identical phenomenally to the fabric of reality. That is.. You can't distinguish a dream from the "real world".  The "real world" is just a conceptual overlay on top of  perceptions. You never encountered any 'worlds'. All you have is perceptions. Your mind then constructed a "world" out of these ever - changing phenomenon to construct a sense of reality and stability. You're constantly imagining stuff all the time that has nothing to do with reality.  

[Inliytened1]

On 5/2/2021 at 11:54 AM, Someone here said:

But as you can see...these imaginations are so important to your sense of reality and to your stability and functionality.. Without the imagination of the external world and of consistency you might have a mental breakdown. That explains why it's hard to see through the illusion and awaken to the truth. 

 

 

great post, preach it brother!

and yeah, it kinda leads back to your previous post on seeking enlightenment...its kinda why one awakens when they awaken.

Seeking is paradoxical because the ego really doesn't wanna find Truth, as it will be its demise.

Truth has to find itself

 

[Dodo]

2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

First of all... Recognize that all this is your imagination.  You're imagining logic and nights and dreams. None of them exists in your direct experience. Right now.

The general idea is if you try to pinpoint what is actual vs what is imaginary in your direct experience.. Notice that you can't. Because whatever you say isn't actually "there".. It's what your mind is constructing. Get that?  A chair is not a "chair". 

And.. It has nothing to do with what's possible and what's impossible. You can Dream of a possibility that you can't jump and fly... And you can dream of a possibility that you can jump and fly.  Yet both are imaginary (dreams). 

The fabric of imagination is identical phenomenally to the fabric of reality. That is.. You can't distinguish a dream from the "real world".  The "real world" is just a conceptual overlay on top of  perceptions. You never encountered any 'worlds'. All you have is perceptions. Your mind then constructed a "world" out of these ever - changing phenomenon to construct a sense of reality and stability. You're constantly imagining stuff all the time that has nothing to do with reality.  

Chair is not a chair fundamentally yes. It needs a human observer to give it that meaning, I am aware of this. 

You can dream the possibility you can or cant jump and fly, but riddle me why every time I ask you to jump in waking reality you will not fly - and how do I know this - its not my belief, its my knowing that says his. 

The present moment, as looked at from point of view of event such as "Jumping of a cliff" does not exist. If you have to talk about an event such as jumping, you are already talking about an event that requires time to happen. Present moment stuff are only useful for self-practice not for general discussion about difference between reality and imagination. 

it is not my imagination that if you jump you will fall, it is a fact of waking reality. In dreams I have jumped off 6th floor and started flying, cant do that in waking - I am sure. I can test with less scary situation to prove it.

"The fabric of imagination is identical phenomenally to the fabric of reality. That is.. You can't distinguish a dream from the "real world". "
I can and I do, that's how I am able to wake up within a dream and know I'm dreaming while its happening and then do whatever the heck I want! I don't do these things in real life, for sure!  Like jumping into the bushes to check how the dream reality will respond... No sir... I believe you are confused because I can't understand your point of view - for me its very easy to distinguish reality and imagination - while also having the intuition that imagination is at the root of reality.

[WaveInTheOcean]

43 minutes ago, Someone here said:

This is utter imagination and fantasy. 

This path is really tricky. 

More Imagination:D more thoughts

But why not, everything will happen at its own accord

????️??

[Leo Gura]

As much as you're willing to stomach.

[Someone here]

17 minutes ago, Dodo said:

You can dream the possibility you can or cant jump and fly, but riddle me why every time I ask you to jump in waking reality you will not fly - and how do I know this - its not my belief, its my knowing that says his. 

NOTICE.. 

1 you are imagining that this is waking reality based on the possibility of flying. Maybe that's the dream reality where you can't fly and the night time dreams are the "real" reality where you can fly. Notice that you pick one over the other without any justifications whatsoever. 

2 of course it's a belief. Even if you try it 100 times.. You still can't be certain that you can't fly next time.  You constantly need to imagine causality and consistency to come to a conclusion. 

17 minutes ago, Dodo said:

The present moment, as looked at from point of view of event such as "Jumping of a cliff" does not exist. If you have to talk about an event such as jumping, you are already talking about an event that requires time to happen. Present moment stuff are only useful for self-practice not for general discussion about difference between reality and imagination

Exactly. Time is completely imaginary. In the sense that you assume that it stops to create a "present moment". There is no present moment obviously because reality is constantly changing. Yet you need to imagine a static "present moment" to ground yourself against this constant change. 

Needless to say when we talk about jumping off a cliff.. That's in the future.. And the future is completely imagination and hypothetical.  Whether you talk about a parent moment or future events.. In both cases you are imagining time. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Someone here

[Someone here]

36 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Truth has to find itself 

It's not lost. So it can't ever be found. 

[The0Self]

7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

It's not lost. So it can't ever be found. 

Yeah... It really can't be found lol. It can apparently be found, but never is found.

[Inliytened1]

17 minutes ago, Someone here said:

It's not lost. So it can't ever be found. 

Don't buy into that - you can BE the Truth, which is beyond the conceptual level.

There are states of consciousness that will blow your mind.

Total omniscience.  Leo is not joking about that stuff, i have entered these states of consciousness a handful of times without psychedelics.

 

[The0Self]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

Don't buy into that - you can BE the Truth, which is beyond the conceptual level.

There are states of consciousness that will blow your mind.

Total omniscience.  Leo is not joking about that stuff, i have entered these states of consciousness a handful of times without psychedelics.

 

That's true, it can be a distraction thinking that the truth is not lost, but ultimately... It's actually true. This is the absolute. Not that amazing realizations can't seem to take place. It's just that, that does not need to happen "in order for" (the great delusion) ultimate liberation to be what it already is: ALL there is.