Concepts vs Concepts

[VeganAwake]

There aren't any real individuals debating and comparing concepts on this forum or anywhere else.

There are just concepts mistakenly being identified with as 'MY' concepts or 'THEIR' concepts thus perpetuating the illusion of 'ME' and 'THEM'.

Nothing vs Nothing...

Everything vs Everything...

Conditioning vs Conditioning...

Points of view vs Points of view stemming from an illusory center point that never occurred but was experienced as real.

The freedom longed for appears to be hidden by being everything.

So in that sense there's nothing to do or find because everything is already whole, complete and perfectly THIS... there is nothing missing already.

THIS can be recognized immediately because all there is is immediacy.

[Breakingthewall]

egos talking to egos to try to free themselves from themselves. But sometimes it works

[VeganAwake]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

egos talking to egos to try to free themselves from themselves. But sometimes it works

But that suggests the ego or sense of self is real in the first place. 

There is already no one to be free or be imprisoned.... so in that sense THIS is already Liberation disguised as something else.

Ego = Separation = Misunderstanding

In the dream story Enlightenment or Liberation would need to be achieved by someone or something who would reap the benefits.

But Liberation/Enlightenment is the recognition that the individual never actually existed.... hence nobody becomes enlightened, nobody wakes up, nobody achieves liberation.

There is no way to end an illusion because it already isn't there....see the apparent issue?(hamster wheel effect)

So who recognizes it? NOBODY!

No one enters the gateless gate so be nobody. ❤

34:08 - 34:24

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by VeganAwake

[Bodhitree]

Each persons concepts originate from their understanding, which is formed by the sum total of their experiences. As such it is a unique lens through which to view the world. If you are lucky, and sensitive, you can pick up on those parts where some else’s understanding is more complete than your own... the sum total of the crowd’s wisdom may be greater than any one individual. 

[VeganAwake]

7 minutes ago, Bodhitree said:

Each persons concepts originate from their understanding, which is formed by the sum total of their experiences. As such it is a unique lens through which to view the world. If you are lucky, and sensitive, you can pick up on those parts where some else’s understanding is more complete than your own... the sum total of the crowd’s wisdom may be greater than any one individual. 

Exactly but that skewed perception or misunderstanding of being an individual from the beginning is what ultimately leads to suffering... the feeling of being separate, that something is missing and needs to be found.

You can't understand it with the mind and it's completely illogical to the sense of self.

That's why it's called Awakening, there must be a cessation of self.

❤

 

[Nahm]

@VeganAwake ?? 

 

Can’t think the way to thought detachment / no mind. 

[Raptorsin7]

@VeganAwake What's the longest you've just sat/laid down and just lived this understanding?

Just being.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, VeganAwake said:

But that suggests the ego or sense of self is real in the first place.

The ego is somehow real. it is an energetic pattern, a stable set of thought, something. every time I manage to detach it more time. but as you say, what me? when the ego withdraws there is no one, since any sense of identity, projection on future, past, worry, is ego. everything is ego. without ego there is emptiness ... but a living emptiness. somehow that emptiness is a me. perceives, is, lives. the problem is that the ego comes back, and with rage. it is a life of imbalance that of alternating the perfect emptiness and the raging ego several times a day. I don't see what the middle point can be. perhaps the ego will settle down in time. maybe it's not real but it seems 

in fact who writes now is the ego. It is a complicated matter, the ego is necessary, the ego is me, the other alternative would be to go to a cave as a Ramana Maharshi to meditate for the rest of my life. It would be a happier life probably, but being human is also beautiful and a challenge. The ideal would be to be able to disconnect the ego at will every day. I see it possible

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[VeganAwake]

5 hours ago, Nahm said:

@VeganAwake ?? 

 

Can’t think the way to thought detachment / no mind. 

Probably not..

This is not about detachment or no mind. It's recognizing EVERYTHING as being IT.

Nothing is excluded including thoughts or thinking. 

Freedom wouldn't be very free if it excluded anything. ❤

 

 

 

[VeganAwake]

6 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@VeganAwake What's the longest you've just sat/laid down and just lived this understanding?

Just being.

It's about everything & nothing in particular, including sitting, laying, sleeping, working, driving, exercising.

Its THIS... and it seems hidden by being everything ❤

[Raptorsin7]

@VeganAwake I'm still waitinf for this to feel like bliss and love.???

 

[VeganAwake]

49 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@VeganAwake I'm still waitinf for this to feel like bliss and love.???

 

 "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'Here it is' or 'There it is. ' Rather, the Kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."

- Jesus

[Bodhitree]

In a way, these kind of considerations are about the mind’s understanding of processes that are beyond the mind. You can choose to learn from the words of others, and repeat a variation of their knowledge, but this is just acquired knowledge, The real knowing lies in doing, in lived experience beyond words.

[VeganAwake]

4 hours ago, Bodhitree said:

In a way, these kind of considerations are about the mind’s understanding of processes that are beyond the mind. You can choose to learn from the words of others, and repeat a variation of their knowledge, but this is just acquired knowledge, The real knowing lies in doing, in lived experience beyond words.

There isn't a 'YOU' though. Its an illusion.

And I'm not talking about the body..... I'm talking about that which claims it's MY body. ❤

[gettoefl]

23 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The ego is somehow real. it is an energetic pattern, a stable set of thought, something. every time I manage to detach it more time. but as you say, what me? when the ego withdraws there is no one, since any sense of identity, projection on future, past, worry, is ego. everything is ego. without ego there is emptiness ... but a living emptiness. somehow that emptiness is a me. perceives, is, lives. the problem is that the ego comes back, and with rage. it is a life of imbalance that of alternating the perfect emptiness and the raging ego several times a day. I don't see what the middle point can be. perhaps the ego will settle down in time. maybe it's not real but it seems 

in fact who writes now is the ego. It is a complicated matter, the ego is necessary, the ego is me, the other alternative would be to go to a cave as a Ramana Maharshi to meditate for the rest of my life. It would be a happier life probably, but being human is also beautiful and a challenge. The ideal would be to be able to disconnect the ego at will every day. I see it possible

 

truth is, you DO need an ego ... for example you have a penis or you have a vagina and there is no escaping this social construct (in most cases that is)

trick is to be aware of the ego and the fact that it is nothing to do with you, it is the vehicle by which you display your i-am to the world

use the ego profitably but do not let the ego use you through lack of consciousness

dream lucidly, and all will be well

[GeoLura]

@VeganAwake Yes and then realize it's ALL hopeless. There's nothing you can do! You will never get there if you keep thinking those spiritual thoughts! You're the problem! 

[snowyowl]

On 02/05/2021 at 3:03 PM, VeganAwake said:

There aren't any real individuals debating and comparing concepts on this forum or anywhere else.

What is real? And if I'm not real what am I, imaginary? In that case, who is imagining me? The concept of image suggests a duality between a real imaginer and unreal imagined.  But perhaps that's an illusion.  Could it be the sense of separate individual which is the image generated by the real absolute imaginer? 

(Not trying to be awkward squad, just doing some thoughtful inquiry)   

[VeganAwake]

4 hours ago, snowyowl said:

What is real?

Depends on your definition of real.

Is a temporary appearance real?

Is believing your friend ripped you off, only to find out later that wasn't the case real?

Is a mirage or magic trick real?

And if I'm not real what am I, imaginary?

Nothing and everything.

Nothing: because you are a conditioned concept of the Mind... not a real entity.

Everything: because you are all the tiny pieces of humanity's cultural conditioning passed down.

In that case, who is imagining me?

No one... boundless energy asking if someone's imagining.

The concept of image suggests a duality between a real imaginer and unreal imagined.  But perhaps that's an illusion. 

Yes, the illusion of duality... Duality is a word that points to something that never actually occurred.... can't have a real separation when it's recognized the individual isn't real.

"the separation never occurred"

- A Course in Miracles

Could it be the sense of separate individual which is the image generated by the real absolute imaginer? 

No, complete nonsense.... time to deprogram

 

(Not trying to be awkward squad, just doing some thoughtful inquiry)   

❤

 

[Nahm]

On 5/2/2021 at 9:01 PM, VeganAwake said:

Probably not..

This is not about detachment or no mind. It's recognizing EVERYTHING as being IT.

Nothing is excluded including thoughts or thinking. 

Freedom wouldn't be very free if it excluded anything. ❤

 

 

 

 

On 5/2/2021 at 1:37 PM, VeganAwake said:

But that suggests the ego or sense of self is real in the first place. 

There is already no one to be free or be imprisoned.... so in that sense THIS is already Liberation disguised as something else.

Ego = Separation = Misunderstanding

In the dream story Enlightenment or Liberation would need to be achieved by someone or something who would reap the benefits.

But Liberation/Enlightenment is the recognition that the individual never actually existed.... hence nobody becomes enlightened, nobody wakes up, nobody achieves liberation.

There is no way to end an illusion because it already isn't there....see the apparent issue?(hamster wheel effect)

So who recognizes it? NOBODY!

No one enters the gateless gate so be nobody. ❤

34:08 - 34:24

 

 

 

 

On 5/2/2021 at 2:46 PM, Nahm said:

@VeganAwake ?? 

 

Can’t think the way to thought detachment / no mind. 

 

[VeganAwake]

@Nahm  it probably sounds very contradicting. 

Its recognizing there isn't an individual in the first place in which could detach from thinking.

Thinking apparently occurs, but there's no one doing the thinking.

And that presumed identity creates the dream story or experience of duality...I am here, and everything/everyone else is out there and I need to defend myself and my beliefs.

❤