Male and female identity is one of the biggest religions of our time

[Emerald]

Just now, TheDao said:

I don't like the limiting narratives. Freedom please.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc45-ptHMxo

We’re you raised in a situation where you were required to adhere to strict gender norms?

I can notice a general difference between women and men... but also not feel required to adhere to gender norms.

There is a distinction between gender/sex and gender norms. Gender norms are rules around how you should/shouldn’t act.

You don’t have to follow any of those rules at all... even if you let yourself notice the general differences.

[TheDao]

@Blackhawk She only doesnt understand yet how she is making  roles and is clinging to her identity. 

 

From rolemates to solemates

[TheDao]

3 minutes ago, Emerald said:

We’re you raised in a situation where you were required to adhere to strict gender norms?

I can notice a general difference between women and men... but also not feel required to adhere to gender norms.

Ofcourse we are all raised like that and you are adhering to those norms everyday. 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by TheDao

[TheDao]

@Blackhawk Nice to see you are back! 

[Emerald]

3 minutes ago, TheDao said:

Ofcourse we are all raised like that and you are adhering to those norms everyday. 

 

Who in your life has been telling you that you have to follow these norms?

Keep in mind that you’re talking to a person who diverges from gender norms quite regularly.

But I used to believe the same thing as you do when I was a teenager. And this led me to repress my feminine side. 

Then, I had my awakenings at 20, and in my subtlety of awareness, I recognized an energy I could only describe as feminine. And it was in the trees and plants... and in me too.

And I recognized that, in my views that gender was purely a social construct, that I had constricted my awareness of so much of myself as so much of me was feminine that I’d forgotten about.

That which is gender-neutral within a patriarchal society (like ours) will always be masculine. So, to be gender-neutral is truly to embody the masculine and banish the feminine.

Most people denying differences in gender don’t realize that they’re doing that. But it is what happens.

[TheDao]

@Emerald No not at all am I banishing the feminine. The yin receptive side is very important in the Tao. Thats what wu wei is all about. What makes you think I banish the female?  I am a male by the way. I even posted a short video just short ago about the mask you live in about men having to banish their yin side. I want freedom.

Edited May 2, 2021 by TheDao

[Emerald]

Just now, TheDao said:

@Emerald No not at all am I banishing the feminine. The yin receptive side is very important in the Tao. What makes you think this?

You’re claiming that differences in gender are socially constructed.

So, perhaps you believe that the Tao has nothing to do with innate qualities within gender and sex.

But I can tell you that it very much does.

Either that, or you’re holding contradictory viewpoints.

[TheDao]

@Emerald Yes the non physical differences are mostly a story. Group differences within women and men are much larger than differences between the groups in lots and lots of characteristics.

The yin receptive side in the Tao is important. Not rowing against the tide , but going along with the stream of nature. This is important for men just as for women. So this has nothing to do with gender like gender is meant mainstream.

[Emerald]

Just now, TheDao said:

@Emerald Yes the non physical differences are mostly a story. Group differences within women and men are much larger than differences between the groups in lots and lots of characteristics.

The yin receptive side in the Tao is important. Not rowing against the tide , but going along with the stream of nature. This is important for men just as for women. So this has nothing to do with gender like gender is meant mainstream.

Everyone has a unique Yin/Yang signature underneath all conditioning. Everyone has both of these energies.

But if you put a group of 1000 men together, their collective signature will be mostly Yang with a little bit of Yin. The same is true in reverse for women.

So, while gender norms and conditioning are socially constructed, the Yin/Yang signature is not.

And if someone is conforming to gender norms, they will suppress their natural Yin/Yang signature.

BUT likewise, if someone is rebelling against gender norms and has resistance to anything socially constructed around gender... they will also suppress their natural Yin/Yang signature.

This is the trap I fell into when I was believing all of gender/sex was socially constructed. And this is the trap you’re falling into.

You may try to make yourself 50/50... when your ratio is probably more to one side or the other.

[TheDao]

@Emerald  I am talking the point of freedom, not rebelling against anything. So there is no trap for me both sides can be important. Sometimes you need the strengh to push through on something and the logic and sometimes more intuition, go with the flow , empathy  are important. My feminine side was clearly repressed at a younger age and I think that was simply necessary then to have a good position in the group.

And no I dont believe women have more feminine than man and vice versa. I have done my research and on lots and lots of traits the differences on an individual level are big and between groups male female are small. I read a lot and have done academic courses on this. To be very honest and maybe rude , I think you are a bit old fashioned.

Edited May 2, 2021 by TheDao

[Evil Raccoon]

Lol, no.

[Emerald]

5 minutes ago, TheDao said:

@Emerald  I am talking the point of freedom, not rebelling against anything. So there is no trap for me both sides can be important. Sometimes you need the strengh to push through on something and the logic and sometimes more intuition, go with the flow , empathy  are important. My feminine side was clearly repressed at a younger age and I think that was simply necessary then to have a good position in the group.

And no I dont believe women have more feminine than man and vice versa. I have done my research and on lots and lots of traits the differences on an individual level are big and between groups male female are small. I read a lot and have done academic courses on this. To be very honest and maybe rude , I think you are a bit old fashioned.

You can’t learn this from courses and books. You have to have direct experience of your signature to know.

Once you experience it, you’ll see what’s in you.

[TheDao]

@Emerald

4 minutes ago, Emerald said:

You can’t learn this from courses and books. You have to have direct experience of your signature to know.

Once you experience it, you’ll see what’s in you.

Both have value. Yes and to know were you personally at is about personal experience yes. But still with a man his feminine side can simply be repressed and thought to not be there, while it is there. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by TheDao

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, TheDao said:

@Emerald

Both have value. Yes and to know were you personally at is about personal experience yes. But still with a man his feminine side can simply be repressed and thought to not be there, while it is there. 

Yes, repression of the opposite energy can and does happen when someone conforms to gender norms.

But resistance to gender norms can also do the same thing. 

True freedom from gender norms can’t be found in conforming to nor rebelling from them... as the reference point for either reaction is the gender norm.

So, a conformist says, “What do the gender norms say?” And then they follow them.

A rebel says, “What do the gender norms say?” And then they do the opposite to what they say.

A person with an accurate and integrated view of polarity says “What do I feel is right in this situation?” And they don’t even consider gender roles.

If a person is committed to the notion of gender neutrality, they can repress and avoid awareness of their primary energy out of a sense of resistance to gender roles.

And to not notice general differences in gender/sex is a symptom of resistance to gender roles.

[TheDao]

10 minutes ago, Emerald said:

And to not notice general differences in gender/sex is a symptom of resistance to gender roles.

Don't agree. I think you don't see through the constructed nature of it all. Maybe try Leos video he made today?

Edited May 2, 2021 by TheDao

[Emerald]

Just now, TheDao said:

Don't agree.

It’s an observable pattern. 

Usually, when people are invested in the idea that there are no natural differences between men and women, they are doing so for deep seated personal/emotional reasons.

For example, plenty of women (especially in earlier waves of Feminism) would deny any differences between men and women because they associated femininity with repressive gender norms and their own oppression.

And this person, understandably may come into resistance to their own femininity and anything associated with it.

For example, that person may come into resistance to motherhood because of its association with oppressive gender norms... even if that person would otherwise want children.

Or one that was common in my childhood was for little girls to hate the color pink (which is only culturally seen as feminine... and is not inherently feminine).

And it never reflected their actual feelings about the color pink itself. There was just a resistance to anything associated with femininity because of femininity’s association with weakness/lameness within the culture.

And there are many Shadow-based reasons for a person to come into resistance to recognizing natural differences that generally exist between men and women.

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, TheDao said:

Don't agree. I think you don't see through the constructed nature of it all. Maybe try Leos video he made today?

Have you seen Leo’s new video? I personally have not.

But there is nothing in @Leo Gura‘s viewpoints that he’s shared hence-forth that would make me think he shares your view on this. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Emerald

[TheDao]

@Emerald Leo is more of the male from mars and females from venus as I can remember. But he willl agree on that things are a construction. It goes even deeper than only the construction of gender.

Edited May 2, 2021 by TheDao

[Yarco]

Haven't finished watching Leo's latest video yet. But what really confuses me is how society has made progress with starting to dismantle the idea of male/female first.

Why is that the specific category that everyone decided to start with? And why does it seem like everyone is happy to stop there, instead of taking it 1 step further to realizing you're the entire universe? Why did people dip their toes into post-modernism "nothing means anything" on the issue of gender, but not anything else?

How come today it's fine for someone born a man to identify as a woman, in some circles even encouraged, or looked down to criticize it. But if someone said identified as an animal, or being made of pure love, they'd get laughed at?

[Emerald]

52 minutes ago, TheDao said:

@Emerald Leo is more of the male from mars and females from venus as I can remember. But he willl agree on that things are a construction. It goes even deeper than only the construction of gender.

There are constructions that exist for sure. Gender norms are certainly constructs.

And yes, Yin and Yang are two sides to the same coin... each intonation of either energy containing a universe of both Yin and Yang in them.

So, if you went into the Yang side of a Yin/Yang symbol, you’d find an entire universe full of Yin and Yang signs as these two energies are never separate.

In that more absolute regard, everyone and everything is infinitely Yin and infinitely Yang.

But from the human-centric perspective, you have social construct and you have the relative expression of Yin and Yang which are very different from one another. And these are important to parse.

Just like how ideas of up/down and big/small are only relevant from the relative human perspective. There is nothing inherently big or small just in the same way that nothing is inherently more Yin or Yang in the absolute sense.

But it doesn’t mean that these more human-centric perspectives aren’t important perspectives to look from.

If we ignored the observable difference between up and down, as human beings and said “Up and down is just a construct. There is no true up and down.” we run the risk of falling off a cliff. 

So, even though Yin and Yang in people is infinite on the absolute level. From the relative level, men tend to display more Yang traits and women more Yin traits as their natural set-point.

It’s kind of like how the number 2 and 2 million are both equally close to infinitely. From the infinite perspective, these numbers might as well be the same. But on the relative perspective, there are real differences between those numbers.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Emerald