I resonate a lot with Jordan Petersons take on feminism - What am I missing?

[StarStruck]

9 hours ago, SamC said:

Ask yourself. Why am I I triggerd by feminist extremists and not right wing incel extremists?

I'm triggered by both but I'm triggered much more by feminist extremist because they hurt my interest as a man.

Quote

The reason why we get triggered is because there is a wound there. The extremist feminists represent exactly what you feel but reversed.

For you it's something like: 

" They say they are a victim, that I, as a man am the one who oppresses them but that's bullshit because I don't oppress them, I desperately want them. They are the one oppressing me, they are the one's not accepting my right to be.

In other words - for you it feels like they  A don't accept you and B gaslight that it is your fault, which comically enough is what you do to yourself all the time.

You constantly tell yourself that you're not enough - that you're a victim becuase you yourself is defective BUT you experience that they are doing the same thing that you're scared of  being... judging you as not enough. 

But guess what... they are only gaslighting themselves, just like you.  The feminists and your own gaslighting is projected outwards because you or they can't handle that you yourself feel like you're oppressed so you switch focus and say that someone else is doing it which creates this endless cycle.

What you see them doing to you, is the same thing you do to yourself. It's the same trauma meeting eachoter...

Which means that in order to heal your trauma and relationship to yourself... you have to do it to them too ( which of course is counterintuitive)

I say it again - you don't accept a part of yourself and at the same time gaslight that it is your own fault and that's the reason why you're triggered.

Of course I am triggered by it but that only tells me that I have more work to do with accepting and loving them and myself ( that I don't fully understand and accept that part of reality)

I want to punch my head against the computer everytime but that doesn't change SHIT.

The point is to learn how to integrate the things that you get triggered by, because everything you denounce - is something you don't understand and love within yourself.

I really feel you bro. We are in the same boat, but realize that them being wrong and stupied is not what triggeres you. You get triggered because there is a wound.

Investigate and heal that wound, or suffer the consequences! @StarStruck

Thanks for the insight. It was not easy to read and accept what you said but I think you are right. I think this is called shadow.

[bejapuskas]

@StarStruck  Them belittling male rape victims is very horrible, you are right on that, don't stop speaking up for this  But they also want you not to belittle female victims who are raped and murdered all around the world. Isn't it common sense?

[TheDao]

7 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

@TheDao Do you agree with the statement that women have been oppressed for most of human history and are currently systematically oppressed in most countries or are you just a typical, mindless reactionary?

@Harlen Kelly  I was being specific. Not about 20 years ago , not in poor countries but the west now , especially America. No opression is a way to crude word to describe the situation nowadays.

[TheDao]

9 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

 It's not so much that each individual male is intentionally oppressing every female in their life, but rather it's a way of describing a complex, historical, systemic, multi-layered, interactionist equation at the group level.

@Carl-Richard Its a way too one sided analysis. It is only one perspective.

Male privilege?

 

[TheDao]

7 hours ago, Forestluv said:

 

@TheDao No one is saying men have it easy and live in a nirvana. People are pointing out asymmetric power dynamics. 

@Forestluv What power are you talking about for the average Joe. Men learnt from kindergarten to be strong, while the emphasis girls have on eachother is to be social. Men learnt to be providers, so they sacrafice long working hours to give their money to the family. Whats the power of the average Joe who has to work long hours as a truckdriver or get disabled by being a garbageman (lot of accidents happen). Where are the women in all those looked down upon jobs? (Which is unfair that garbagamen are looked down upon, garbagemen are essential for society to function). Are you talking about the few procent men that are on the top? Men are the biggest dropouts too. What does the average Joe have to do with this? He feels immense pressure to be strong and breadwinner while making long hours? Of course then if men make al the long hours to live up to the male identity story, they get better in the job and are overrepresented or get paid for more. It is then men who is most stuck in its gender role of being strong, being a provider etc, while feminist have freed the women much more.

 

To someone mentioning men are not abused much: 

No men get in dysfunctional aggressive borderline like relationships and get abused too in big numbers. This is not in line with the story we tell about men being strong, thats why its ignored. And the shelters only one sided help women. If men are so massivly in power why are such things not taken care of? Because its not true!

 

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by TheDao

[Carl-Richard]

8 minutes ago, TheDao said:

@Carl-Richard Its a way too one sided analysis. It is only one perspective.

Male privilege?

The irony is that you're now using sociology as an argument

Like you said: "its a way too one sided analysis". 

You can atleast try to not come off as a troll. Until then, see you later ✌

[TheDao]

 

19 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Until then, see you later

@Carl-RichardNo I am challenging the main stream narrative and the reason this is difficult is because of group processes, exactly like I said in the sociology topic, the weaknesses of sociology.  Are you saying it is not the American men who die at the wars abroad? See you later.

Edited May 9, 2021 by TheDao

[Shin]

1 minute ago, TheDao said:

 

No I am challinging the main stream narritive.  Are you saying it is not the American men who die at the wars abroad? See you later.

What's the solution ?

Forcing women to do something they have no interest in ?

Those men, for the most part were happy to die for their country.

You don't go to war or engage in the army without your consent nowadays.

Equality isn't about being the same everywhere, it's about equal rights.

[TheDao]

7 minutes ago, Shin said:

Those men, for the most part were happy to die for their country.

@ShinWow you have no idea what this does to people. Big life dramas. You seem to have an empathy gap towards men. 

And also this demonstrates the narrative that is told to men. To be disposable and bribe them with honor, so they are willing to give away there lives. Men are tricked into this, with films about so called hero's in war. War is one useless big tragedy , but in the movie when mens limbs and heads are cut of a bright music gets played.  Its learnt disposability

Edited May 9, 2021 by TheDao

[Jacob Morres]

13 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

Anybody who is a feminist is also a humanist. <3

yeah this

i think a problem with feminism is that it can marginalize men's experiences, not inherently though. but im also very early to this topic

i also wish the two groups could come in harmony and work together. if women are being marginalized they need to be heard. and if men are being marginalized, they need to be heard. all people deserve love equally. but it will take decades of progress and healing

Edited May 9, 2021 by Jacob Morres

[Shin]

6 minutes ago, TheDao said:

@ShinWow you have no idea what this does to people. Big life dramas. You seem to have an empathy gap towards men. 

And also this demonstrates the narrative that is told to men. To be disposable and bribe them with honor, so they are willing to give away there lives. Men are tricked into this, with films about so called hero's in war. War is one useless big tragedy , but in the movie when mens limbs and heads are cut of a bright music gets played.  Its learnt disposability

You're right about this, but also, it learns to sacrifice yourself for a greater cause.

[Carl-Richard]

22 minutes ago, TheDao said:

Are you saying it is not the American men who die at the wars abroad? See you later.

Women also suffer when their husbands die and war is a part of patriarchy. Who else are sending men to their deaths but other men? ?

Edited May 9, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[TheDao]

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Who else are sending men to their deaths but other men?

@Carl-Richard I thought you left? Welcome back then. The average men can do nothing about that. Are playing a blame game? How insensitive you are to men's pain. Its more a rich abusing the poor story than your patriarchy story. Men objectifying and sacrificing themselves doesn't seem so powerful to me.

Edited May 9, 2021 by TheDao

[Shin]

19 minutes ago, TheDao said:

@Carl-Richard I thought you left? Welcome back then. The average men can do nothing about that. Are playing a blame game? How insensitive you are to men's pain. Its more a rich abusing the poor story than your patriarchy story. Men objectifying and sacrificing themselves doesn't seem so powerful to me.

You are too ideologist, at least that's how you sounds, so that's one reason people can't stop bashing you.

Your points for the most parts are quite relevant and true, but they seem to come from a wounded place in your heart, and it makes you look biased when you speak.

Both men and women needs to be equal in a harmonious way, nobody is really denying that here, but you make it sounds like Men have it way harder, and that an overreaction of feminism for a decade equals milenials of mistreatment (unconscious but still).

If you really want to pass your message here you need to be more nuanced and have less fire in your tongue.

[TheDao]

8 minutes ago, Shin said:

You are too ideologist, at least that's how you sounds, so that's one reason people can't stop bashing you.

Nope its just your identification with feminism.

 

8 minutes ago, Shin said:

Your points for the most parts are quite relevant and true, but they seem to come from a wounded place in your heart, and it makes you look biased when you speak.

If your arguments are not succesfull start blaming it on others trauma! My o my. Stop putting in useless elements of the discussion.

 

8 minutes ago, Shin said:

you need to be more nuanced

Look whos talking!

 

8 minutes ago, Shin said:

Both men and women needs to be equal in a harmonious way, nobody is really denying that here, but you make it sounds like Men have it way harder

Not saying that. Do say feminism has not walked the talk on the male side of things. They need more pressure to start to look from it from mens side also. And then I am talking about America, not my country. We are more nuanced.

Edited May 9, 2021 by TheDao

[Shin]

1 minute ago, TheDao said:

Nope its just your identification with feminism.

 

If your arguments are not succesfull start blaming it on others trauma! My o my.

 

Look whos talking!

 

Not saying that. Do say feminism has not walked the talk on the male side of things. 

I have no interest in quote wars, have fun suffering

[TheDao]

24 minutes ago, Shin said:

I have no interest in quote wars, have fun suffering

@ShinThen don't start them, going into personal attacks. Its a waste of time. You are only repeating the dynamics , just like how they tried to cancel the mens rights film. Its a truth that is disconfortable for you. For me its not, I love breaking down old thinking. No way of saying will not trigger some. 

Edited May 9, 2021 by TheDao

[SamC]

 

2 hours ago, StarStruck said:

Thanks for the insight. It was not easy to read and accept what you said but I think you are right. I think this is called shadow.

Here's a challenge for you!@StarStruck

Search for feminism on YouTube and select the most outrages, toxic and man hating rant you can find.

Than watch the video - but most importantly. Watch yourself. Observe you're reaction and when you feel like you want to punch the wall. Breath in to the resistance, hatred and anger.

Notice how angry you get.. and than investigate why those emotions occur.

[TheDao]

17 minutes ago, SamC said:

Search for feminism on YouTube and select the most outrages, toxic and man hating rant you can find.

 

@StarStruck Or just watch the free film I gave a link to earlier. Which gives you enough examples of Mainstream feminism. Which clearly demonstrates a male empathy gap.

Edited May 9, 2021 by TheDao

[bejapuskas]

@TheDao  Perhaps you could think of what women refer to as toxic patriarchy as something that imposes expectations upon men, creating oftentimes either suffering weaklings or abusive fathers and leaders from them. Do you resonate with this? Men are also victims of patriarchy.