I resonate a lot with Jordan Petersons take on feminism - What am I missing?

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Derek White said:

“We are going to treat women a bit better because they were teated poorly in the past.”

Okay, then don’t talk about fairness. And don’t be surprised when men find you hypocritical and think it’s a bit unfair.

Fairness and balance are far more naunced issues than you want to believe.

Genuine fairness is exactly what is aimed at. But getting there requires corrective measures and address past inequalities.

You are not being intelligent about this because your mind is biased. When you resist and begurdge every corrective measure it betrays your lack of interest in genuine fairness.

I am certainly not surpised by your selfishness, just disappointed.

[Javfly33]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Again, why are you so insecure that you begrudge treating women a bit better?

Whatever you say, it always comes back to that.

It's just pettiness. If you were secure you would not mind if women were treated a bit better. Ironically you've weaponized "equality" as an extension of your insecurity and smallness.

When a secure person gets overcharged 5 cents, he lets it go. When an insecure person gets overcharged 5 cents, he starts a crusade for "fairness".

More than insecure I feel sometimes as a victim being men just as women do. So I would like to be heard sometimes as a man too 

My opinion doesn't contradict that I think feminism should keep striving to get women better status though. 

[Raptorsin7]

11 hours ago, Derek White said:

I have heard feminist argue for equality of outcome in personal life and online, so there you go. One example I can think of on top of my head was when Lilly Singh said she was very disappointed and accusatory when there were no women in a top 10 highest earning Youtubers or something like that. That was arguing for equality of outcome from a big media personality. That's just one example, there are so many more. 

 

 

Yeah i've heard these sentiment a lot from different online personalities.

You can also look at WNBA players and how much controversy there is around the pay differences. The NBA is losing millions of dollars a year to keep the league running, yet there are many instances of WNBA players be upset over the pay differences.

I'm not sure if anyone argued for EQUAL pay but there's definitely a strong sentiment from male and female players that woman deserve to be paid much more, even though economically there is no argument.

[Shin]

12 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

More than insecure I feel sometimes as a victim being men

How so ?

[Etherial Cat]

Feminism is not only about women though.

It's about giving to the entire feminine principle the space it deserves after centuries of repression.

It means woman, feminine values (love, compassion, gentleness, tenderness), feminine traits (ex: emotions), feminine perspectives, and basically anything assigned as feminine in the collective unconscious.

Society is fucked by an imbalance towards masculine values. If you look around are the collective issues, they all find their roots in the absence of value/fear of something we assign as Feminine.

Femininity was dangerous for survival during other social structures, but nowadays it is the cure to a lot of our issues.

Global warming, social inequality, excessive competition/zero-sum game mindset, whatever.. = > excess of masculine principle

[Raptorsin7]

1 minute ago, Etherial Cat said:

Feminism is not only about women though.

It's about giving to the entire feminine principle the space it deserves after centuries of repression.

It means woman, feminine values (love, compassion, gentleness, tenderness), feminine traits (ex: emotions), feminine perspectives, and basically anything assigned as feminine in the collective unconscious.

Society is fucked by an imbalance towards masculine values. If you look around are the collective issues, they all find their roots in the absence of value/fear of something we assign as Feminine.

Femininity was dangerous for survival during other social structures, but nowadays it is the cure to a lot of our issues.

Global warming, social inequality, excessive competition/zero-sum game mindset, whatever.. = > excess of masculine principle

Wow nice point, I've never thought about this before

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I feel sometimes as a victim being men just as women do

Yeah, well, even billionaires and kings can feel like victims. The ego will always find some injustice to bitch about.

Of course men need love too. That's what anti-feminists want.

[Etherial Cat]

7 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Wow nice point, I've never thought about this before

Thank you  . 

Also, I'd like to add that each men also have a significant amount of feminine traits and expressions, since both polarities are to be found in us.

So both masculinity and femininity deserve to have its proper place for us to be ourself.

Femininity is a path towards wholeness.

 

[Focus Shift]

@SamC I like a lot of Peterson's work too, I don't think he opposes feminism per se (equal opportunity for the sexes), and in fact has suggested that women should be more disagreeable in a workplace to become more successful. 

[SamC]

24 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Feminism is not only about women though.

It's about giving to the entire feminine principle the space it deserves after centuries of repression.

It means woman, feminine values (love, compassion, gentleness, tenderness), feminine traits (ex: emotions), feminine perspectives, and basically anything assigned as feminine in the collective unconscious.

Society is fucked by an imbalance towards masculine values. If you look around are the collective issues, they all find their roots in the absence of value/fear of something we assign as Feminine.

Femininity was dangerous for survival during other social structures, but nowadays it is the cure to a lot of our issues.

Global warming, social inequality, excessive competition/zero-sum game mindset, whatever.. = > excess of masculine principle

Amazing insights!

[SamC]

10 minutes ago, Focus Shift said:

@SamC I like a lot of Peterson's work too, I don't think he opposes feminism per se (equal opportunity for the sexes), and in fact has suggested that women should be more disagreeable in a workplace to become more successful. 

Here´s the thing, I think so too but I know that I am wrong

He is so deeply embedded in blue and orange and is reacting against green. The matter is not if he is right or wrong, it is that he can´t accept and fully integrate the feminie perspective.

Edited May 2, 2021 by SamC

[SamC]

47 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

@SamC

I think I´ll do a journal where I share my insights and breakthroughs from reading a bunch of different books about feminism @Husseinisdoingfine

[SamC]

@Leo Gura What were some of the things that you were triggered by before that you later resolved through learning more about that particular perspective?

[Etherial Cat]

20 hours ago, SamC said:

 

Again what do I got wrong?  What are my biases?  Why can´t I stand spiral dynamics stage green? Or does Jordan Petersen have a point? I would love to hear your thoughts @Nahm @RendHeaven @Emerald @Leo Gura 

A common bias that I see when it comes to JP, is that his credentials as a professor and a best-selling other give people the impression that he's an expert in all subject he explores. Which leads to an authority bias.

The truth is, he is as qualified to talk on social sciences that I am qualified to talk about nuclear physics, from an "academic proof" standpoint. Peterson is a psychologist. 

So when he talks about feminism or "post-modern neo-marxism" he's giving an opinion out of his domain. His opinion is therefor as worthwhile as anyone who hasn't the benefit of the doubt to be better because of spending a decade on a field, like a professor do. 

Now, I don't say that you cannot be self-taught or have a natural talent, but Jordan is simply ignorant and comes off as a Dunning-Kruger to anyone who is able to clock where his thought process falls short.

But he comes off as very convincing because the optic is in his favor, and of course, because a lot of people wants him to be right because it serves unconsciously their agenda.

[Etherial Cat]

22 minutes ago, SamC said:

Amazing insights!

Thank you. 

 

[Shin]

33 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Thank you  . 

Also, I'd like to add that each men also have a significant amount of feminine traits and expressions, since both polarities are to be found in us.

So both masculinity and femininity deserve to have its proper place for us to be ourself.

Femininity is a path towards wholeness.

 

Very hard to accept at first, I cringed so much the first times I did yoga.

"This is yoga with Adriene,

I'm Adriene "

[Focus Shift]

3 hours ago, SamC said:

Here´s the thing, I think so too but I know that I am wrong

He is so deeply embedded in blue and orange and is reacting against green. The matter is not if he is right or wrong, it is that he can´t accept and fully integrate the feminie perspective.

To me, Peterson seems to be more Orange, strong emphasis on individualism, dislike of ethnocentrism and collectivism (blue and green). 

[StarStruck]

If you live in the west, feminism has done its work, and should be deconstructed. With every year feminism is getting more toxic because it fulfilled it purpose and now it is overcompensating.

Toxic feminity is a huge problem. Men and women earn as much women and women still expect men to pick up the bills. Women get the kids when divorcing. The attitude of some women. I can go on and on about modern day feminism. 

If feminism has reached its purpose in a country, they should switch over to humanism: equality for everybody. 

[Shin]

4 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

If you live in the west, feminism has done its work, and should be deconstructed. With every year feminism is getting more toxic because it fulfilled it purpose and now it is overcompensating.

Toxic feminity is a huge problem. Men and women earn as much women and women still expect men to pick up the bills. Women get the kids when divorcing. The attitude of some women. I can go on and on about modern day feminism. 

If feminism has reached its purpose in a country, they should switch over to humanism: equality for everybody. 

No it doesn't, in average there is still 5 to 20% disparity in income for the same job.

There is also physical abuse and sexism all over the place.

Unless you live in Scandinavia you're overestimating the impact of feminism.

[StarStruck]

4 minutes ago, Shin said:

No it doesn't, in average there is still 5 to 20% disparity in income for the same job.

There is also physical abuse and sexism all over the place.

Unless you live in Scandinavia you're overestimating the impact of feminism.

There is no income disparity where I live and in most western there isn't. If they can do the same job and work the same hours they earn the same salary but some women here work part time and want to earn the same salary as men who work full time.