Why I think permanent Enlightment is not possible

[Zigzag Idiot]

44 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Being is existence. Existence is in mind only

Being is an Existence, a Suchness

Being means no reaction, no mental activity that defines who or what one is. In fact, Being is not an activity at all; it is an existence, a suchness, a thereness, a Presence that is not doing anything to be there. Since Being is itself existence, it does not need the mind to be there. It is like a physical object, which does not need the activity of mind to exist. 

Pearl Beyond Price, pg. 57 

Being is Fundamentally Beyond Mind, Beyond Discriminating Knowing

In recognizing that pure awareness is nonconceptual, we discover new and surprising truths about Reality. We see that our being is fundamentally beyond mind, beyond discriminating knowing. We see that, since nonconceptual awareness is the ground of all manifestation, Reality is independent of our minds, and manifestation is not the creation of our thoughts. Without manifestation there would be no awareness, and since awareness is ultimately nonconceptual, the forms in manifestation are not conceptual either. This is a radical discovery. It illuminates the Reality beyond our individual minds, revealing that the differentiation in manifestation is beyond mind. We do not need discriminating knowing to perceive differentiation. Differentiation is inherent in manifest reality, and it ontologically precedes the dimension of basic knowledge, the nous dimension. The basic knowledge of pure presence simply adds discrimination to the already present differentiation of forms in manifest reality. 

The Inner Journey Home, pg. 328

[Javfly33]

6 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Just the opposite, we are all the same Consciousness, in different states of Self-awareness. The dreamer is ultimate, the dream is relative. Ultimately, there is no differentiation.

The screen you using to read this message is actually, literally, you.

There is no physical dream brother. This is You.

No relative dream. It's all Absolute.

Non duality = Not two = Because what you are seeing is You. 

[Javfly33]

15 minutes ago, James123 said:

Nothing has ever happened brother. Thoughtlessness thats it, which psychedelics can never give you. Thats why no mind meditation is must for enlightenment. 

"Nothing" has happened . You can call it Nothing instead of God if you want.

I agree psychedelics can't Enlightened you. 

Because the surrender must come voluntarily, not forced. ?

[The0Self]

10 minutes ago, James123 said:

So take an example of anesthesia, just realize what is thoughtlessness, as before birth. Thats what being is. Because even when you say being it is word for you, which is a thought and has some meaning. However when you “be” it is as anesthesia, there is nothing there, which is what You really are. And the reason that world is exist for you now, because you think, if you dont think during so called day, it will be as anesthesia, which is nothing has ever happened. Thats why it is called awakening, because when you “be” from the perspective of the so called world, Real You actually is sleeping now, because of there is no such a thing as thought or being thoughtlessness. 

When I ignore everything (all experience; thought), vision, senses, and all body feeling go “blank,” but it feels like blank, so I ignore the blank too, as it’s just a subtle experience/thought, and much thought goes away, mind gets super quiet and still, and body feels intense pleasure. Then I ignore (“look away from”) the pleasure, stillness, and quiet too (turning from all experience, without exception). Then... it’s as if the big thought/experience of “looking out” is seen as a little tiny thought in a huge ocean that is “looking in.” Feels like “God.” If “I” keep on going ignoring that too, eventually either focus is lost, or it feels like everything is disappearing, but it doesn’t all go completely. Just very thin, like it’s not real. Does that sound familiar? What is going on there?

[The0Self]

38 minutes ago, Kalo said:

@James123 You have yet to become conscious of God bro. God IS, and this is Absolute. It's Truth, Absolutely.

All your "nothing" realizations and stuff means nothing if you are not conscious of God. 

Speaking about the ego, if your pipe dream of "enlighment" is to permanently annihilate the ego while in human form, it's surely you who needs all the good luck you can get bro.

Humility --> Awakenings

You might not be fully taking into account the strange-loop nature of no-thing being everything. Just because one labels God differently than you... well, he clearly refers to “Being” in a way that you’d perhaps say “oh yeah that’s God.” He’d perhaps disagree. It’s words.

[James123]

28 minutes ago, Kalo said:

@James123 You have yet to become conscious of God bro. God IS, and this is Absolute. It's Truth, Absolutely.

All your "nothing" realizations and stuff means nothing if you are not conscious of God. 

Speaking about the ego, if your pipe dream of "enlighment" is to permanently annihilate the ego while in human form, it's surely you who needs all the good luck you can get bro.

Lol. I used to take many time 10 between 8 gr dried shrooms. Believe it if you or many people do that you will freak out. I have been experienced that so called god head, nothingness, infinite nothingness or infinite love, however because of thought process still goes on and therefore you name and label as experiencing god that’s not even enlightenment. Just taking or eating some stuff makes you your  god, it is very doubtful, cheapy. When enlightenment happens, your entire life, entire experience with the god head vsvs, just becomes a single thought, not even. So you cant even fathom enlightenment, because you cant even think of it or name and label it as god. 

 

53 minutes ago, The0Self said:

or it feels like everything is disappearing, but it doesn’t all go completely. J

Let go everything till nothing left, not even a single thought. Let go everything till you forget everything including yourself. If no thoughts arises or identification with thoughts ends for long time, you forget everything including yourself. Maybe enlightenment happens maybe not. 

 

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

"Nothing" has happened . You can call it Nothing instead of God if you want.

I agree psychedelics can't Enlightened you. 

Because the surrender must come voluntarily, not forced. ?

Just go in front of the mirror and think the creation, or something created, or nothingness created itself. will youu anything in your so called head? What will happen? 

[Javfly33]

3 minutes ago, James123 said:

 What will happen? 

Nothing. But i Dont get what you are trying to say with that question.

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

The screen you using to read this message is actually, literally, you.

You got it  Consciousness is everything, just in different states. The screen exists in relative reality, but it is still Consciousness.

[James123]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

Nothing

Exactly. 

 

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

But i Dont get what you are trying to say with that question.

Just trying to say because you believe your thoughts as real. Thats why you keep coming with ideas as creation or nothingness created the existence. But as you say nothing happens. There is nothing there. Whatever you think there is nothing there. So dont trust the thoughts. Step back, watch the thoughts, till you realize there is nothing there. Than you vanish. 

[traveler]

There is such a longing to share it, but no one to share it with. It is a beautiful joke, the "I got it, you didn't" game. It is so innocent, but so real from the POV of the soldier in the war zone. That is the beauty of this, it is so so real yet totally insubstantial. God was tired of playing solo so he imagined another controller! All of You are perfect. All of You is this. God doesn't have to go back to playing solo to be God, God doesn't need to compromise, stop looking for heaven and you realize you're standing in it. 

[The0Self]

43 minutes ago, Kalo said:

Idk, "there is no god" sounds more like a denial of God to me bro.

You can't label something you deny, you can only falsely replace it with something else, like "being" or the "brain" if you're a materialist. 

God IS, Eternally, always and forever, the very First and the very Last.

1) God IS

2) Only God IS

3) God IS God. 

God is a tautology. God is and is not. To say there is no god is either nonsensical, or actually true, since if ego is active, it will seem to have ideas about God, which are the obstruction to God — that which is beyond even itself, which is the exact same thing as nothingness.

[The0Self]

9 minutes ago, Kalo said:

Isness is Absolute bro. There is no such thing as no-isness, non-isness, or non-existence. There is however such a thing as Formlessness or Nothingness as you said. God in itself, is no-thing-form, is no any which thing.

Unmanifested. Unseen. Untouched. This is God.

God is Absolute, even when an ego is totally unconscious of God.

What you are calling God, is not God. Nothingness is not a thing, literally. There are no things. There is no God, since all there is, is God. God does not exist, since God is existence, which is emptiness, which is fullness.

Watch thoughts as you respond next. Notice the explosion of false claims. Not judging, it just happens.

Edited May 2, 2021 by The0Self

[The0Self]

1 minute ago, Kalo said:

God IS.

Keep it simple bro.

The difference between existing, and being existence, is not trivial.

[The0Self]

1 hour ago, Kalo said:

True.

Yes, but God with any associated meaning isn't real -- this God is literally a REALization the individual can "have." But there's no individual, so yeah... If you're still there, your conception of God will necessarily be of this variety. In fact even if you aren't there, any conception of God will be of this variety. In other words, talking about God is quite literally masturbation. Not that there's anything wrong with that. "I" do it fairly often, in fact.

[The0Self]

@Kalo Those are all false claims. The only “real” God is is-ness itself — there is nothing else.

And really, it just shows lack of insight when one is not willing to call it by its rightful name, Unconditional Love ❤️ 
 

You need it to feel like it makes sense. It doesn’t in actuality. Causality is an illusion as well.

You aren’t there to see it, but the belief structures are the entire reality. You actually believe, for no good reason, that prior events cause later events. But it’s such a given, most would think I’m crazy for pointing that out. Evidence for beliefs arise out of themselves and create personal reality. But it isn’t actually happening, it just seems that way.

Edited May 2, 2021 by The0Self

[The0Self]

3 minutes ago, Kalo said:

I have not talked about causality bro.

You have not and are not conscious of God. No point in denying, no point in trying to replace the word "God".

Keep going bro.

“I” realized God in ways you clearly haven’t. This is about more than mere God-realization. You aren’t conscious of what God really is.

If you only knew what going “further” actually meant for me over here... well you don’t know. It’s alright. It’s not fun and games like you seem to assume.

[The0Self]

On 5/1/2021 at 5:16 PM, Zigzag Idiot said:

Being is an Existence, a Suchness

Being means no reaction, no mental activity that defines who or what one is. In fact, Being is not an activity at all; it is an existence, a suchness, a thereness, a Presence that is not doing anything to be there. Since Being is itself existence, it does not need the mind to be there. It is like a physical object, which does not need the activity of mind to exist. 

Pearl Beyond Price, pg. 57 

Being is Fundamentally Beyond Mind, Beyond Discriminating Knowing

In recognizing that pure awareness is nonconceptual, we discover new and surprising truths about Reality. We see that our being is fundamentally beyond mind, beyond discriminating knowing. We see that, since nonconceptual awareness is the ground of all manifestation, Reality is independent of our minds, and manifestation is not the creation of our thoughts. Without manifestation there would be no awareness, and since awareness is ultimately nonconceptual, the forms in manifestation are not conceptual either. This is a radical discovery. It illuminates the Reality beyond our individual minds, revealing that the differentiation in manifestation is beyond mind. We do not need discriminating knowing to perceive differentiation. Differentiation is inherent in manifest reality, and it ontologically precedes the dimension of basic knowledge, the nous dimension. The basic knowledge of pure presence simply adds discrimination to the already present differentiation of forms in manifest reality. 

The Inner Journey Home, pg. 328

Don’t know about any of that, but you’re right, in that it seems I was harboring a false claim about the nature of being. Who would’ve thought? ? 

Thanks ? 

[Muhammad Jawad]

On 5/1/2021 at 0:01 AM, SoonHei said:

@Javfly33 there is such a thing as a liberation. but it's liberation from a 'you' & not for you... because you're ever liberated.

liberation from the delusion.

consider enlightenment as being aware that the lawn-hose in the front of your house is a hose and not a snake.

you fell into a delusion that it was a snake... and then say you slowly but ultimately came out of it and finally saw that it's not a snake but a hose. that would be the end of it... sort of like once kids know santa aint real - it's a done deal.

 

but sure raises a question... can someone not get knocked on the head by something and then again fall into believing that santa's real? perhaps... so better watch yo surroundings and not get knocked on the head

 

but really. ultimate liberation is to snap-back to reality and come to see your true position as sitting on the sofa watching the tv and playing the video game with the controller in your hand. once you know this, then you go on playing 1 game to the next

 

all the sages talk about the escape from the cycle of birth and death. it's done once and it's forever. then you're forever rooted in witness consciousness as your primary position. then it's an eternal play. an eternal dance.

 

"the fruit ripens slowly but falls suddenly and without return."

"And exactly after the 2 days of this post, that Amazing & Loving Person "SoonHei" Jumped from the Bridge in Toronto Canada, committed suicide and gave his life and died at the night of 3rd May 2021" :-(

And he took this step, just to prove his own self that he is right about his understanding of life, death & God.  

He was my best & only friend. :-(

[RMQualtrough]

Have no fear! Upon death the "self" will automatically skip to enlightenment WELL BEYOND any living thing including Buddha, or contemporary teachers like Leo, has or could ever achieve.

It is awaiting us all! In fact we have no say in the matter!

In life we will always exist with ego else we could not function at all. It would be literally impossible to survive.

[BipolarGrowth]

40 minutes ago, Muhammad Jawad said:

"And exactly after the 2 days of this post, that Amazing & Loving Person "SoonHei" Jumped from the Bridge in Toronto Canada, committed suicide and gave his life and died at the night of 3rd May 2021" :-(

And he took this step, just to prove his own self that he is right about his understanding of life, death & God.  

He was my best & only friend. :-(

Wow, that is really sad. I’m sorry for your loss man. My inbox is open if you need anyone to talk to.