Can you be happy & fully enlightened?

[Zion]

Since it's currently inevitable to pursue enlightenment through the restricted human form, what is the real point of pursuing enlightenment if happiness cannot consistently coincide?

Does enlightenment lead to a permanent ability to manifest happiness?

Does enlightenment create an understanding of true everlasting happiness?

Can enlightenment facilitate eternal happiness by being fully encompassed in it?

Sometimes my ego gets heavily involved & I struggle to see the end goal. It merely seems like enlightenment is simply the pursuit of absolute understanding of reality. If you understand everything, what is there to do with it other than to use your ego/self to utilize it for human gain? And if you don't understand everything, what is the point of using your time to seek it (We supposedly will understand it either way after death)? How is the pursuit of enlightenment not a means of the ego striving to feel more certain about reality? I understand I am very ignorant in many ways, as I'm not even close to being at the highest levels of enlightenment. I feel like I'm going to end up missing all the egoic desires I haven't yet experienced whilst being in the state I'm in. How do I know that enlightenment will be more fulfilling than my ego's pursuits? How do you compare the two? Enlightenment in the beginning is pure faith/blind-trust & I'm getting anxious about losing all the great pleasures that the majority of my environment advocates for. Especially because I haven't yet experienced them. I mean I'm in my early 20s & there's so many things I haven't even come to enjoy or understand yet. It also seems like a "all or nothing" mindset to spend the majority of your time pursuing enlightenment & ignoring the reality you currently understand, isn't an "all or nothing" mindset not healthy? 

 

There is a level of peace to be had within an ignorant mind. As the saying goes; "Ignorance is bliss"

What are your thoughts on this? Thanks

[universe]

You are looking to get something for the "I" with Enlightenment. That is not how it works.

 

Being happy is an emotion. If you want to be happy I'd highly suggest learning Emotional Mastery as a more practical and direct path to let your Emotional State rise.

 

[Megan Alecia]

Only once you accept that you'll never live perfectly. 

[Eternal Unity]

Yes! That's A Tautology

[4201]

4 hours ago, Zion said:

Since it's currently inevitable to pursue enlightenment through the restricted human form, what is the real point of pursuing enlightenment if happiness cannot consistently coincide?

Yes, pursuing enlightenment or happiness is not the same as enlightenment or happiness. The first one assumes you don't "have it".

4 hours ago, Zion said:

Does enlightenment lead to a permanent ability to manifest happiness?

All enlightenment is is the present moment, right now.  It is not a super power the ego receives which let's it write the future. If you happen to shift your focus away from the present moment into what isn't, it will feel bad, no matter "when" that happens.

4 hours ago, Zion said:

Does enlightenment create an understanding of true everlasting happiness?

Understanding is your natural state, enlightenment is no longer thinking there is or creating the duality of a you that do not understand. Notice how "not getting it" is like something you "do". "I don't get it" is often a thought that is repeated and self defining. All thought is capable to do is not get it, as understanding is not a function of thought.

When you get it though, there's no need to repeat to yourself "I get it!" because it no longer is an identity. Not getting it feels bad because it's literally not true. Your true self actually gets it, all the time.

4 hours ago, Zion said:

Can enlightenment facilitate eternal happiness by being fully encompassed in it?

Enlightenment shouldn't be seen as some kind of fix that finally puts an end to the never ending problem of happiness. Enlightenment is just to stop looking for a solution and realizing there was no problem in the first place. If you see enlightenment as some thing that will fix your happiness, you will be surprised to see that there is no such thing and you don't need anything to be happy.

4 hours ago, Zion said:

Sometimes my ego gets heavily involved & I struggle to see the end goal. It merely seems like enlightenment is simply the pursuit of absolute understanding of reality. If you understand everything, what is there to do with it other than to use your ego/self to utilize it for human gain? And if you don't understand everything, what is the point of using your time to seek it (We supposedly will understand it either way after death)? How is the pursuit of enlightenment not a means of the ego striving to feel more certain about reality? I understand I am very ignorant in many ways, as I'm not even close to being at the highest levels of enlightenment. I feel like I'm going to end up missing all the egoic desires I haven't yet experienced whilst being in the state I'm in. How do I know that enlightenment will be more fulfilling than my ego's pursuits? How do you compare the two? Enlightenment in the beginning is pure faith/blind-trust & I'm getting anxious about losing all the great pleasures that the majority of my environment advocates for. Especially because I haven't yet experienced them. I mean I'm in my early 20s & there's so many things I haven't even come to enjoy or understand yet. It also seems like a "all or nothing" mindset to spend the majority of your time pursuing enlightenment & ignoring the reality you currently understand, isn't an "all or nothing" mindset not healthy? 

There's no problematic ego that "gets too involved". This ego you cannot feel it, touch it, see it, hear it or taste it. It's literally non existent, only imagined. If you think it exists, you'll act like it exists and it will rule your life. 

Enlightenment is not some kind of reward you get from following some kind of abstinent lifestyle for a couple of years. Enlightenment is what you really are. Enlightenment is not gathering knowledge or understanding more about how things in reality work but rather what reality is in itself, which is not only extremely simple but your true self and heart already knows the answer. It may not appear as so because an imaginary ego that do not understand reality is being identified with. If you no longer imagine this ego, reality will be as clear as it can be.

Enlightenment doesn't mean you don't pursuethings you want. Judgements you have against some forms of pleasures are not relevant, the only thing that matters is how you feel in the moment. If that pleasure doesn't end up feeling good it's ok, you can move on.

This idea that there is an ego with egoic desire that is driving you in a direction you don't want is also untrue. You may have desires you judge as "un spiritual" or "unawake" and there might be insecurity about having those desires and what it means about who you are. (Does it mean I'm not awake if I want to have sex?) None of this insecurity is justified, you don't have to hide your desires. Some "desires of your ego" may also just be straight up not desires but ideas of a desire you happen to think you have, fear of missing out. The only way to tell if you actually want something or not is to feel. If you focus right now on yourself and ask "what do I really want right now?" that's all that really matters. All fears about not having done everything you wanted in time is ridiculous. Those fears feel bad, make sure not to misinterpret that bad feeling. Nothing (no fix, no quick pill, no pleasure) will let that bad feeling go like feeling it.

4 hours ago, Zion said:

There is a level of peace to be had within an ignorant mind. As the saying goes; "Ignorance is bliss"

What are your thoughts on this? Thanks

The more one think he knows the less open he is to new ideas. The lack of information isn't bliss in itself but the lack of assumptions about a self that already understands reality is. 

 

[Zion]

@4201 Wow thank you! 

[Shin]

 

"I think I'm gonna ask Eckhart this question"

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Shin

[Mu_]

@Zion Sounds like you may be in a what do I want to do with my time/life phase weighing the pro's and con's of your next choices.  This is a good thing. 

Are you content now, are things good enough?  If so, why seek something more, just explore your interests and what you like to do.  Enlightenment wont necessarily give you happiness or ever lasting fulfillment.

I honestly wouldn't pursue enlightenment until you feel like it pulls you towards the drive, from your heart.  I definatly wouldn't pursue it if you feel like your supposed to because thats what it says in a book or video you watched.  And god forbid if you didn't your bound to suffer living life any other way.

[Zion]

@Shin Thank you, that helped a lot

[Zion]

With analyzation, I'm seeing how enlightenment & most existential teachings can come off extremely confusing. It is difficult to explain something that most anyone can't even fathom because it's never been in their experience. It's almost like the soul purpose of ego is for it to die. The part that becomes difficult for most anyone I think, is trust. How do you trust that which you can't experience?

I'm just starting to get a glimpse of how potentially problematic the ego can be in life. Though the thought still lingers as to how practicality will shape life if all is to enlighten..? ?

[Shin]

55 minutes ago, Zion said:

It's almost like the soul purpose of ego is for it to die.

Not to die, that would imply you'd become something that isn't already there, you can only realize something that is already true, you're already 10% complete.

It's closer to be 100% sure to be a character in a movie, and seeing that particular movie as the only movie possible, with other characters and objects in which you can interact, instead of realizing that the whole movie (and every possible movies) are you.

[Zion]

@Shin So to transcend the ego, the ego must encompass all?

Essentially saying that the ego does not seise to exist, but rather the understanding of it does.

So the ego is not problematic, it's only problematic when it lacks an understanding of itself? 

So then what is no-self? Is this one of those things that is paradoxical but true, in that there is both self & no-self existing as one? Because in that case, I'm extremely far from enlightenment. I still cling heavily to a dualistic paradigm, as much as I tell myself I don't. 

It's funny how well the ego can deceive. This work grows harder & harder as I persist to the discovery of truth. It's hard to see a world without identity existing. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Zion
Adding in some thoughts

[Thought Art]

You can only really be happy with enlightenment.

Awakening is more than just ego, It's developing such a high level awareness of how to operate you vehicle and of reality that you create whatever you want within yourself.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Thought Art

[4201]

48 minutes ago, Zion said:

@Shin So to transcend the ego, the ego must encompass all?

There's no ego! Just the idea of there being one, which is false.

48 minutes ago, Zion said:

So then what is no-self? Is this one of those things that is paradoxical but true, in that there is both self & no-self existing as one? Because in that case, I'm extremely far from enlightenment. I still cling heavily to a dualistic paradigm, as much as I tell myself I don't. 

There is no self, the self or ego is imagined to be but it's not actual. Your hand is actual, you can see it, touch it. Your ego or self, the "person" that you are is only talked about but not touched nor seen.

Are you extremely far from enlightenment? The "you far from enlightenment" is imagined, not real. This statement is essentially false as well. 

[4201]

All of this conceptualization about your self or ego going through some kind of transformation process is essentially a distraction from the amazingness and beauty of the present moment which is enlightenment. There is no process for enlightenment, you already are it.

[Zion]

Important Note:

I'm noticing many different descriptions of the same understanding. While many understand enlightenment & realize it, that does not mean all perspectival descriptions of it will resinate with each perspective. Debate & discussion can be very distracting if taken too literally or seriously. Watch out for this.

[Shin]

Yeah basically, if you really want to know, you'd be better off not read anything more about it.

Make the habit of sitting one hour and ask what enlightenment is, without any assumptions.

That's gonna be 390% more effective than reading opinions from strangers who might not even know what they are talking about.

Also taking 5 meo dmt.

[SolarWarden]

I don't know what enlightenment is.

Isn't everything negative associated with ego?

Happiness for me is taking a good shit. If Enlightenment takes that away from me then I'm fucked.

[Evil Raccoon]

On 29/04/2021 at 1:03 AM, Megan Alecia said:

Only once you accept that you'll never live perfectly. 

Everything is perfect even if it’s not.

[Megan Alecia]

@Evil Raccoon  most people don't walk that talk.