Need help teaching Spiral Dynamics to teens! Input appreciated

[SonataAllegro]

Hey y'all!

I'm getting ready to teach Spiral Dynamics to my Leaders-in Training for the Summer camp I work at (ages 15-16) and I'll be spending all of May deeply contemplating the model and integrating each stage so I can know that I'm teaching from my own experience. I've studied this and other developmental models for 3 years, and I want to get into the heart of each stage, reflect on my own embodiment, and understand how to effectively teach it. Please help me answer any of these questions as I plan this journey:

1. In addition to studying the book, Leo's videos, and the mega threads, what are some exercises I can use to understand and integrate each stage?

2. What are the most essential films to watch for each stage? Ones that show the benefits of each stage in addition to the limitations?

3. How do I get teenagers interested in a psychological development model, given my age group and the fact that most of them are stage high Orange/Green? (It's a nature camp in Massachusetts and most are from schools that stress equity and diversity)

4. What happens if I get someone from a stage Blue background (unlikely but possible) or otherwise people who are very closed-minded?

5. What are the positive aspects of Purple, Red, Blue, and Orange that I can stress?

6. I'm concerned about pointing out limitations of materialism. I don't want to fully deconstruct science for them but I still need to explain how and why the materialist paradigm is not sufficient. How do I avoid giving them existential crises and looking like a crackpot while still addressing the issue? 

7. I'm even more concerned about talking about the limitations of Green, as they may confuse the self-centeredness of Yellow for that of Orange. They're also likely to think I'm constructing a hierarchy even if I tell them that being at a higher stage does not imply being better. I also don't want it to seem like I'm excusing anyone's actions by asking them to understand and have compassion for racists, sex offenders, capitalists, Hitler, Trump, and anyone else Green demonizes. Leo is able to be very direct in this way but I'd immediately lose credibility if I say that, for example, Hitler acted out of Love. How to manage?

8. What are some engaging exercises I can have them do to for each stage, especially Yellow and Turquoise? I want to hit them over the heads with the depth of self-actualization and self-transcendence, but how far do I go? I want this to be maximally impactful and memorable for them, but there are dangers to talking about this stuff with teens. It is, however, the best time for them to have an introduction to it. I want to give them a taste of what's really possible for them in life that I wish I'd gotten at their age.

Thank you!!

 

 

[fridjonk]

This will never work. You can't mass-teach spiral dynamics to a bunch of teens that are still developing and are probably not interested in it either. It's a model you find on your own and use on your own, then lead by example. It seems like you're coming at this from stage green, wanting to share it. This feeling of needing to force it onto others will pass when you get to "higher" stages. 

[SonataAllegro]

@fridjonk I've thought long and hard about that point in planning this but I've concluded that it is important to teach. This is a leadership program I'm doing with only 10-15 kids. Giving them this model as a tool for understanding themselves and the world, while being perfectly clear that it is a model and that they must take care not to abuse it, is extremely important for developing leadership. I will, though, be extremely careful to make sure I speak from experience. How else are people supposed to encounter this stuff if no one shows it to them?

Edited April 28, 2021 by SonataAllegro

[Opo]

You are overestimating these kids it's too early for them to be high orange/green. 

I think that you need to be at least yellow to teach this model. 

But if you still want to do it try teaching it to your friends and family. So you get some practice. 

Please report the results. 

[integral]

Dont explicitly teach SD, implicitly teach it. Really you want to expose them to green/yellow thinking, that might be the most beneficial. Give exercises that promote multi-perspectival thinking. They will unlock SD on their own. 

Teach/practice with them: 

- Give them the tool of Meta questions, go meta for many examples/subjects, pick subject they care about.   

- Ask a question and have them answer it from a specific stage/perspective, get them in the shoes of other people, give them a perspective and get them to answer questions from it. Show them that a question can be answered from many perspectives. 

- Systems thinking, show them the inter-connectiveness of everything and give them systems thinking questions they can use, always make it practical, always focus on giving them a tool they can add to there tool box. They have no idea that unrelated things are indirectly connected and effect each other. Then expand it to holistic thinking, explore parts and wholes. 

- Relativity, they have no idea what this is. 

- Creative exploration of ideas, they have no tools to do this. 

- Big picture Thinking, you want to teach them SD when they have no idea how to do basic big picture thinking. Whats the bigger picture here? lets zoom out... 

SD is automatically unlocked at high green/yellow, the pattern reveals itself. 

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by integral

[DIDego]

@SonataAllegro Admire your attitude! 

Wow, ye i totally got stunned. I dont know, not a clue.

A chair, duck tape, picture tell the rest , best idea i could find out then brainstormed 

I say to people that we might have to focus, help younger generation before they fall into.. ye that indoctrination la viva logic.

Some kind of play, learn and get a carrot.

Teamwork, group dynamics?

@integral Awesome 

24 minutes ago, integral said:

Dont explicitly teach SD, implicitly teach it. Really you want to expose them to green/yellow thinking, that might be the most beneficial. Give exercises that promote multi-perspectival thinking. They will unlock SD on their own. 

Teach/practice with them: 

- Give them the tool of Meta questions, go meta for many examples/subjects, pick subject they care about.   

- Ask a question and have them answer it from a specific stage/perspective, get them in the shoes of other people, give them a perspective and get them to answer questions from it. Show them that a question can be answered from many perspectives. 

- Systems thinking, show them the inter-connectiveness of everything and give them systems thinking questions they can use, always make it practical, always focus on giving them a tool they can add to there tool box. They have no idea that unrelated things are indirectly connected and effect each other. Then expand it to holistic thinking, explore parts and wholes. 

- Relativity, they have no idea what this is. 

- Creative exploration of ideas, they have no tools to do this. 

- Big picture Thinking, you want to teach them SD when they have no idea how to do basic big picture thinking. Whats the bigger picture here? lets zoom out... 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by DIDego
Resize picture :)

[DIDego]

@SonataAllegro

Hmm.. Advanced power point, make maybe videos, that you can use as complement?

 

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[Eternal Unity]

Before you get into Spiral Dynamics, make sure they understand Maslow's Pyramid.

Greg

[Matt23]

I think focusing on other principles  and values, even helping them find their strength, passion, and life purpose would be more exciting for them and thus probably more helpful to them.  

I also agree with showing them Maslow's hierarchy.  

Like, even for me who's 27 and into this stuff a bit, I can't say I've benefitted hugely feom learning spiral dynamics.  I'd say i benefit more from hearing people speak about and explain different principles, like honesty, openmindedness, and wisdom and then explaining those a bit.  Talking about possibilities and getting people inspired might be more helpful especially at this age since they are more influencible (I know it's not a word).  

I'd go with getting them inspired about life's possibilities n such, and then showing them various values by example and also by teaching them if they ask. 

I that's also inportant, to ask if they want to learn some stuff or if they ask you.  I often get frustrated and irritated when some just chimes in without me asking for advice n such.  Best lead by example and then if they ask for advice n stuff, awesome! 

Depending on the fromat i guess as well. Like if you're supposed to have a dedicated amount of time devoted to teaching something, maybe that's a bit of a different story.

Good luck!  

And don't mind us nay-sayers if were're not seeing some potential you're seeing.  Go for it if you feel it's best.  ... but heed our words (insert evil stare).

[fridjonk]

6 hours ago, SonataAllegro said:

 I've thought long and hard about that point in planning this but I've concluded that it is important to teach.

That's because you're limited by your worldview. 

6 hours ago, SonataAllegro said:

How else are people supposed to encounter this stuff if no one shows it to them?

Because the model is out there for people to find. You must be actively seeking truth on your own in order for the system to work like it's supposed to. For example, take how Leo runs his business, he doesn't market it out there, he puts it out and people who wish to join in can do so. 

Almost every time you will bring this system to somebody they will reject it because it threatens their worldview. There are countless posts on this forum from people trying to teach spiral dynamics to others and it failing miserably because it's just too advanced for normies and especially teens. Usually, I'd only introduce this system to someone who I'm about to dose with some psychedelics.  

[Forestluv]

As a leadership course for teenagers, I would just present the positives as different categories and take out the developmental aspect. I.e. have a purple box, red box, orange box etc. and highlight the value in each. I would also highlight that some leadership boxes are focused on one’s self (personal integrity, discipline etc) and other leadership boxes are focused on community. I would show a lot of real life concrete examples. Teenage brains haven’t developed abstract / meta cognition yet. They need straightforward concrete examples.

I might add the nuance of degrees of expansiveness - e.g. from small community (purple) to more expansive community (blue) to most expansive community (green). Yet I wouldn’t present it as developmental stages - the tendency to perceive as a hierarchy and that higher is better is distracting and too personal. I  would also focus on Tier 1. I’ve taught SD to freshman college students twice (18 years old). Tier 1 is accessible, yet Tier 2 is much less accessible. Its like trying to teach calculus to kids that haven't learned algebra yet. 

Imagine teaching a course on how to be a successful athlete to teenagers. You could have categories like “disciple”, “teamwork”, “the value of coaches”, “building strength and agility” etc. Presenting the categories as a hierarchy would be a distraction. 

Ultimately, the best leaders will embody the positives of EVERY stage. So just present the positives of every stage and the traps to watch out for.

[Matt23]

1 hour ago, fridjonk said:

How else are people supposed to encounter this stuff if no one shows it to them?

Ya, I'd also watch out for assuming that people "need" to learn this stuff like it's "the gospel that will transform mankind".  

Praise the Spiral! 

 

All in good fun (with some resentment hidden in there too ..) 

Reality is so complex, I think it to be kind of arrogant to think we, I, you, know what others need to grow.  

Be kind to them, be open to just letting them be and grow as they are and let them tell you (explicitly or implicitly, verbally or through their actions, etc.) what they need.  Whether that's just listening to them, playing a game with them, laughing, telling jokes, giving advice, disciplining, etc. I don't like saying teach them psychological models cuz... I dunno... cuz I think kids wouldn't like and and that they just wanna have fun, be kids, and learn through their own processes. 

I'd say kids and teens don't really wanna hear that kind of stuff, especially at a summer camp where they just wanna have fun and do teenage stuff.  Help them have a great time, have fun, get inspired.  Don't be too preachy or ideological on them.  

But ya... just let em' be.  I think one of the most important things a counsellor can have with kids and youth is connecting with them, showing them he understands them and is "with" them on their level.  Someone who they feel they can trust, trust with their feelings and desires and thoughts and all that.  Someone that they feel they can be themselves around without feeling scared to open up to.  Someone who helps them "be themselves" and helps them show that self to others and creates a safe space for that to happen.      Show them respect and show them what self-respect and demanding respect looks and feels like.  Be funny.  

Long post, I know.

But I think one of the best things you can do with kids and youth is to be yourself.  Confidently and honestly. 

Enjoy.

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Matt23

[SonataAllegro]

Thanks all, this is good advice and I’ll reconsider what I tell the campers about SD, if at all. 
 

I would still like input on what kinds of things I might do during May to integrate and understand  each stage.

[fridjonk]

35 minutes ago, SonataAllegro said:

I would still like input on what kinds of things I might do during May to integrate and understand  each stage.

A good way to exercise this would be to first meditate for 20 minutes in order to clear your mind. Then you imagine up a new life from whatever stage you wish to explore. Let's say you want to explore stage purple, you imagine you were born in a community of 100 people, a hunter-gatherer tribe. You go through that life and imagine what it would be like, what would you fear, what would you desire, what would you believe in, etc. You also need to lessen your horizon because your mind will want to interfere with its own stage. You naturally will always go back to your own mind because that's all you've known, so be careful with that. 

I didn't mean to come off as harsh as you obviously care about this, so good luck.  

[integral]

- Ask a question and have them answer it from a specific stage/perspective. Show them that a question can be answered from many perspectives.

- Split the class in half or in fourths and give each group a world view that they have debate with each other. Then swap the world views midway and make then debate from the others perspective that they just spent good energy rejecting. This will really screw with them lol. 

[Bodhitree]

I thought @integral ‘s approach was pretty good. You could certainly introduce them to SD as a leadership topic, by showing them the benefits of having a clear understanding of each stage and how to approach people at a given level. Trump for example was gifted at communicating with certain portions of the spiral, and you could argue that by convincing a lot of people of his ideas he proved he could lead. Biden s approach on the other hand appeals to mostly to different parts of the spiral. 

It certainly seems to me that any kind of team leader would benefit from understanding models of people’s development, once you can classify where on the spiral team members are situated it helps you understand their motivations and what would appeal to them. 

Hoever, there is a danger in thinking a model fits all the people you’re going to come across. Some people may be in between, or have elements of earlier stages in their makeup. It’s only a model, to be used with care. 

[integral]

@flume @fridjonk Are you guys out of your mind? lol, these are 15-16 year olds, meditating during class is a waist of time, they will be bored out of there minds. Doing anything like this in school was torture for me at that level of development. About all they care to think about is how hot the girl next to them is and to becaful not to do or say anything that might make them look bad. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by integral

[fridjonk]

20 minutes ago, integral said:

Are you guys out of your mind? lol

The op was asking how he himself could practice and integrate each stage, this was not for the kids. 

[integral]

I was wrong. Shortly after this thread was started i met a 13 year old at the park where i train. We instantly hit it off and bonded, at some point the conversation went to SD he immediately latched onto the idea and began exploring it. We started by making simple distinction in the population, classifying people, behavior and ideas into stages. After he got a grasp of this he began exploring things on his own, constantly asking question for months. We explored perspective switching, moral relativism, systems thinking, 3rd/4rth person perspectives, ego awareness, personality types, life is a dream philosophy, self-development, body building, emotional mastery, communication intelligence. He was/is very quick and enthusiastic about all of it. Rapidly absorbing and applying everything i introduce him to.

Not sure how this 13 year old found me, but he hit the developmental lottery lol. Typed as a INFJ. In the matter of a month or so, his behavior and self awareness significantly changed that the parents commented on it.

It all started with conversation on SD, that strongly peaked his interest and unlocked his higher self. It seems SD has a magic to it.

The unavoidable things that happened along this journey:

- He placed himself at yellow, i let it be that way, as a way to help him identify with his higher self, i didn't see a need to correct this. He eventually self corrected this belief a few weeks later, but still strongly idealizes yellow and turquois. 

- He struggled abit to understand how hitlers actions came from a place of love from hitlers perspective. A conflict of what he things is right and how what is right is relative. It eventually clicked on its own. He is still confused on how rape and murder is self love and perfectly right from the perspective of the rape and murderer. Needs constant re-explanation. A relativism issue, that i need to play with more.

- He will default and flip flop between a 13 year old thought process and higher self. Depending on mood, emotions at this age completely send him into a regression. Forgets to zoom out, likely a issue caused by not enough practice, no life experience and brain not finished developing. 

- His attention span is more focused on what hes interested in exploring at any moment and not what i want to teach him. So i go with the flow of his interests and drive the conversation to the most relevant insights. This might be a effective teaching strategy. Class exploration, general chats, teach them what most peaks there interest.

- He will just reject things if hes not emotionally interested in. If i try to force a subject on him to explore, its fully ignored. When hes emotionally interested, the fireworks go off, creative exploration. 

Edited June 3, 2021 by integral

[integral]

On 4/29/2021 at 1:09 AM, Matt23 said:

Be kind to them, be open to just letting them be and grow as they are and let them tell you (explicitly or implicitly, verbally or through their actions, etc.) what they need.  Whether that's just listening to them, playing a game with them, laughing, telling jokes, giving advice, disciplining, etc. I don't like saying teach them psychological models cuz... I dunno... cuz I think kids wouldn't like and and that they just wanna have fun, be kids, and learn through their own processes. 

I'd say kids and teens don't really wanna hear that kind of stuff, especially at a summer camp where they just wanna have fun and do teenage stuff.  Help them have a great time, have fun, get inspired.  Don't be too preachy or ideological on them.  

But ya... just let em' be.  I think one of the most important things a counsellor can have with kids and youth is connecting with them, showing them he understands them and is "with" them on their level.  Someone who they feel they can trust, trust with their feelings and desires and thoughts and all that.  Someone that they feel they can be themselves around without feeling scared to open up to.  Someone who helps them "be themselves" and helps them show that self to others and creates a safe space for that to happen.      Show them respect and show them what self-respect and demanding respect looks and feels like.  Be funny.  

This. Most important component. Befriend them, step one.