What if Psychedelic experience is bec of chemicals produced in brain?

[machiavelli]

What if Psychedelic enlightenment experience is only produced by chemicals in brain. And feeling of love is produced because of release of feel good harmones such as serotonin , dopamine etc. And we are then equating it with God's Love.

And all experience is due to these chemicals changes which these medicines do to receptors in brain ?

 

[Adamq8]

What if the chemicals is a human construct and there is no such things in nature which we label chemicals just out of convenience?

where is the seperation from chemicals and experience and you and nature and brain?

there is no seperation in reality.

and then ask the question, why would a chemical allow you to see infinity etc?

the chemical does not show you something that is not reality.

What if things is just appearences?

Why would a chemical produce love?

Why is it necessary?

The universe produces all of it

The whole produces it.

Isnt amazing?

 

 

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, machiavelli said:

And all experience is due to these chemicals changes...

In that case your brain itself does not exist, since it's just an experience.

Good, so now you should realize your entire worldview has collapsed like the house of cards that it was.

[machiavelli]

@Leo Gura But how can be soo sure that the love we experience in breakthrough trips is mere dopamine surge in brain which we are saying its god's love? 

Our brain is very powerful and is capable of producing wide varieties of feelings and experiences through chemicals. 

 

[Carl-Richard]

That is one lens. Let's look at some different lenses:

Cognitive: enlightenment is caused by the cessation of self-referential thoughts.

Intrapsychic: enlightenment is caused by the cessation of egoic drives.

Social: enlightenment is caused by the cessation of need for external validation.

Existential-Humanistic: enlightenment is caused by the transcendence of the self.

Behavioral: enlightenment is caused by a specific change in stimulus-response patterns.

Buddhist: enlightenment is caused by the cessation of karma and thus the end of dukkha and samsara.

Sometimes the idea of causality can be misleading. It's useful to first concede that these are merely descriptions (including the neurophysiological one that you mentioned, namely neurons and neurotransmitters), and that causality must then be recontextualized within this new framework.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Adamq8]

2 minutes ago, machiavelli said:

@Leo Gura But how can be soo sure that the love we experience in breakthrough trips is mere dopamine surge in brain which we are saying its god's love? 

Our brain is very powerful and is capable of producing wide varieties of feelings and experiences through chemicals. 

 

What is dopamine?

What is chemicals?

How does the brain produce feelings?

[erik8lrl]

If you go deep enough in trips, you will unravel everything in existence, including any concept or ideas. Once you reach this point, you will have no questions or doubts left. The idea of a brain itself or even the idea of ideas themselves is unraveled in the infinite void. So go deeper, and you will see.   

[machiavelli]

@Adamq8 Neuro Science is still in infancy to understand the working of brain. But it doesn't mean we will not understand its working in next 1000 years. 

Its like science is not mature enough to understand complex working of neurons which generate experience (Scientist point of explanation not mine).

I feel consciousness is prior to every material thing. But scientist say that consciousness is produced by brain due to complex neural networking. 

So how can we be soo sure that feeling like INFINITE LOVE that we feel in breakthrough trips is merely due to surge of dopamine in brain. For example Orgasms.

Edited April 28, 2021 by machiavelli

[machiavelli]

@erik8lrl Have you had any such experience?

 

[erik8lrl]

@machiavelli Yes, I have gone all the way.

[Adamq8]

@machiavelli The classical give us more time and we will solve it.

It has been said for a long time my friend.

Science cant explain one experience with neurons and we live in the 21 first century. 

Why do neurons firing produce the taste of chocolate?

We dont know but give us time.

Only way for materialism to survive is through these words.

The only way we know the universe is through experience IE conciousness, and science cant explain it?

Oh well it is just neurons firing in the brain, thats how it is produced.

But we dont know how.

Same as, how can dumb particles bumping together create life,intelligence, conciousness, experience. 

No clue.

But mystics and sages and all of it has said the same thing for thousands of years, they have already figured conciousness out.

And it is consistent.

Or rather, conciousness is what scientists are and mystics.

Conciousness is all.

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Adamq8

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, machiavelli said:

@Leo Gura But how can be soo sure that the love we experience in breakthrough trips is mere dopamine surge in brain which we are saying its god's love? 

Our brain is very powerful and is capable of producing wide varieties of feelings and experiences through chemicals.

There is no brain. You are imagining it. You are imagining all of science too. It's pure fiction.

Infinite Love is not a feeling. It's direct consciousness of Absolute Truth.

There is no way around direct consciousness of Absolute Truth. If you don't have it, no amount of logic will help you. All logic is fiction. All skepticism is fiction. Everything is fiction.

You are stuck because you refuse to do the work of deconstructing your mind. Start by realizing that science is imaginary.

[machiavelli]

@Leo Gura What is infinite love If it is not a feeling ?

Edited April 28, 2021 by machiavelli

[Fran11]

43 minutes ago, machiavelli said:

@Adamq8 Neuro Science is still in infancy to understand the working of brain. But it doesn't mean we will not understand its working in next 1000 years. 

Just like you couldn't create the color red, or the feeling of love, or the sound of a waterfall using lego-bricks even if you spent a million years trying out different combinations, the same way science will never be able to explain consciousness by studing brain cells' conections, because there is no possible conection (no matter how complex) that's equivalent to consciousness or even qualia.

Consciousness is just not possible under the materialist paradigm.

There's nothing rational or logical about the idea of consciousness being the byproduct of interconected cells. It just seems that way becouse of massive social indoctrination.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Fran11

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, machiavelli said:

@Leo Gura What is infinite love If it is not a feeling ?

I told you, it's Absolute Truth.

How you feel about it is irrelevant.

[Nahm]

@machiavelli

What in direct experience is unchanging? 

[The0Self]

1 hour ago, machiavelli said:

@Leo Gura But how can be soo sure that the love we experience in breakthrough trips is mere dopamine surge in brain which we are saying its god's love? 

Our brain is very powerful and is capable of producing wide varieties of feelings and experiences through chemicals. 

 

Your assumption is that there's a thing called matter that has real existence, but you've never experienced matter -- if the definition of matter we're using is roughly "stuff independent of consciousness." Now, if your definition of matter is "the physical manifestation of consciousness," then clearly the source of the psychedelic experience; love; etc is not matter, but consciousness, since by this definition the source of matter is consciousness. Pretty simple, but without direct experience of absolute truth, Be-Lie-(I)f's (mostly hidden) will always get in the way.

Edited April 28, 2021 by The0Self

[Eren Eeager]

@machiavelli

Ground your understanding in these questions:

1. From where did come everything in the first place? You say the brain is what constrcts everything, then from where came the substance that made the brain
2. The brain is the source of the experience? Then what renders the brain itself.
3. How a brain made out of matter capable of generating consciousness, obviously it cannot.
4. From what the brain is made? Is it made from atoms? And then the atoms, what are they made from? Sub atomic molecules? And those from what are the made? See, you will never reach a point where it is really the base for everything, because there is not such thing.
5. The things you see in a psychedelic experience are explanations for existence. Things that are undeniable when you experience them. They are not just a thought or a model. They are direct experience that explains everything

 

[Grateful Dead]

I think some psychedelics are biased to experience truth as love

you can for example experience absolute truth with salvia but then it's not infinite love

 

[Javfly33]

4 hours ago, machiavelli said:

What if Psychedelic enlightenment experience is only produced by chemicals in brain. And feeling of love is produced because of release of feel good harmones such as serotonin , dopamine etc. And we are then equating it with God's Love.

And all experience is due to these chemicals changes which these medicines do to receptors in brain ?

 

Here's the plot twist:

- Chemicals are also Love