Why do women look at the phrase 'nice guys finish last' with contempt?

[Parththakkar12]

Here's a theory - It is an attempt to paint guys who get rejected by them as losers to rationalize their rejections and not take responsibility for them. There is this subconscious attitude of 'If you are a strong, alpha-male, you should be able to resist all my boundary-assertions and attempts to resist your advances'. In other words, someone who doesn't violate your boundaries isn't attractive enough for you.

If this is true, then yeah, nice guys will finish last. If your metric for the guy being a ‘strong, alpha-male’ is that he should be able to push through all the rejections and shit-tests, then yeah, a nice guy is not going to do that! Because he respects women.

What do you think?

[universe]

Nice guys don't respect women. They think they own them for whatever fucked up reason.

You have to ask, why is the nice guy nice?

Now, I'm not saying you can't be nice, caring and respectful. But do it in a non-"now you owe me" kinda way.

Make it come from an easy, strong, authentic and non-reactive place.

And also don't forget to respect yourself while respecting women. Set boundaries according to your values and how you want to live life.

 

[Parththakkar12]

9 minutes ago, universe said:

Nice guys don't respect women. They think they own them for whatever fucked up reason.

Why are nice guys being told they don't respect women? What's the actual reason behind it? 'Nice' and 'not being respectful and thinking they own them' somehow don't go together.

11 minutes ago, universe said:

You have to ask, why is the nice guy nice?

Does there have to be a selfish reason for it? Are we assuming 'all men are narcissists and if you're not being one, you're not being authentic'?

From what I gather, the phrase 'nice guys finish last' is more of a call-out to women for not going for the nice guy when they say they want one!

[StarStruck]

Nice guys use niceness as an asset to get sex. That strategy doesn't work. 

It communicates that you don't have any standards. If a nice guy is being a doormat to get sex he won't get sex because girls don't give sex to doormats. 

Nice guys don't understand what girls want and girls understand what they want. It is the blind leading the blind. 

A girl wants somebody like her dad (I won't go deeper into this. It is a deep topic)  but basically girls want a guy with standards and self respect. She wants to chase to get her prize. It has to do with halo effect. 

[Shin]

Imagine if there was a word for ugly women, and those ugly women are 100% sure that the uglier they look, the more dicks they'll get.

A nice guy is that for a woman, he thinks by being a nice puppy he'll be attractive.

Unfortunately for them, women wants puppies as pet, not as boyfriends.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Shin

[The0Self]

Theory: ego defense mechanism.

The ego gets everything exactly backwards.

Not that "nice guys finish last" is actually true -- it depends on your definition of nice. Good guys don't finish last (except maybe in bed ).

[Karmadhi]

@Shin What about kind instead of nice?

[Shin]

7 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

@Shin What about kind instead of nice?

Still not going to be attractive to focus on being the kindest man possible.

The problem with those guys aren't that being nice or kind is a bad thing, it's just not a core feature of masculinity.

It's as if a woman you know bet on her humor to seduce you, that's nice, but that's not what femininity is about at its core.

Now obviously, when those guys understand that, they go to the opposite direction, but that's also a mistake, cause even though you can get lots of girls by being an ass, being an ass doesn't feel good and will get you into trouble very often.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Shin

[Parththakkar12]

1 hour ago, The0Self said:

Theory: ego defense mechanism.

The ego gets everything exactly backwards.

Not that "nice guys finish last" is actually true -- it depends on your definition of nice. Good guys don't finish last (except maybe in bed ).

What ego defense mechanism?

[The0Self]

19 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

What ego defense mechanism?

What the ego does to protect its sense of reality or self-image. Everyone wants to believe they partake-in a fair system. Etc.

[Preety_India]

Masculinity in a sexual sense is not dependent on how nice or not nice you are. In sexual sense, masculinity is about raw power, the ability to be sexually appealing, without being forceful (because that's criminal ),  to be able to exude a raw sexiness through domination, the man who seems like he can take charge of literally anything like a king is very attractive to the feminine, this doesn't mean that the man has to be a bad guy, he doesn't, he can be a good guy, yet be very daring and assertive, his fearlessness, his lioness-ess is very attractive, his ability plays a main role here, character takes back seat, obviously if he acts like an asshole the relationship will eventually end, however attraction is a brain thing, it's not decided by the heart  so character will only be a factor in the long term, but at first sight or at least sexually, a man who has this raw power, the ability to totally control her desires, the ability to get her without consent, without actually violating her consent, that is without using physical force, yet being able to assert such power as though he owns her through intense eye contact (eye contact being an important part of this game ),  fulminating her whole place with his masculinity, almost leaving his scent everywhere having that attitude "I'll have you no matter what, " without actually using force, but by using seductive mental tricks, inserting himself in her mind all the time, almost invading her mind space, making her feel fragile and helpless (a state he would even replicate in bed by intensely owning her femininity and forcing himself through her body, obviously after consent, and showing his full power in owning her sexually ) and making her feel wanted at the same time by showing constant interest in wanting her, pursuing her intensely and making her beg for his domination and making her feel special and owned without hurting her or abusing, but by showing how much he wants is very appealing to a woman.  

However nice guys don't do this. They are nice but they lack sexual charisma and relationship is not just value matching Act but also highly sexual and so sexual chemistry is going to be a huge factor in determining everything, the nice guy might be fitting for a woman who comes with a laundry list, but not for a woman seeking natural attraction minus laundry list. She is going to be attracted only to the highly masculine male, this is not her fault, just like it's not a man's fault if he is attracted to a round ass.  

Being nice doesn't give you brownie points in the sexual department. For example when I recently had a conversation with a guy, we had a long non sexual conversation followed by him saying that he first checks if the girl will smile and the next thing he will check is her ass and he said it in such a manner, that I instantly felt attraction, I had to hold myself back because I didn't want him sexually, plus I didn't want to lose the friendship or make it awkward so I kept silent, however that comment he made was a very leading on, like a turn on, men who don't do that get friend zoned, so it's a beautiful dance of sexual chemistry but to perform this dance you need to have the right "sexual emotions" or the right sexual framework because if her body is not feeling charged by whatever you're saying to her then she is not going to feel sexual and your chances are over, it's a matter of learning this dance, creating this intense sexual chemistry where you don't have to force but create such tension in her body that she is unable to resist even if her mind says no, her body says yes, make her cut through her bullshit resistance, this intense conflict that she cannot handle between her head and the body and she gives in to this submission to your incessant pressure on her sexuality, you don't assault her physically (physical is crime ) but you assault her mentally, gaining full reign of her senses like a magician and she is left with no refuge but to simply let her body be taken by you by giving into your advances and letting you lead on, she will give signs (not online, online it's difficult to read signs but in reality where she would feel vulnerable and would not resist your presence and your touch, this can be tested with a kiss, slightly touching her face to see if she resists, if she doesn't than she is more than willing for you and lead her to the ultimate conquer -sex.) she will give signs, lots of them, she won't move away when you're near, she will respond to the eye contact by wanting it more, she will not show aggression but obedience, she will try to get your attention by being around you,  a potent sign that the game is working.. 

To be able to create such intense tension, you have to be very  connected with your natural masculinity. Nice guys are passive and generally lack such overt masculinity.  

This is not to say that masculine are not nice or don't possess virtues, they may or may not, its just that  they are gifted in this sexual department where they are able to exude raw sexual appeal and prowess. This sexual power does not stop only to attracting and creating chemistry. That is only the starting point. The next point is sex.  He has to be good at sex, amazing lover in bed, where he can make her moan a lot, make her want more, make her beg, because he is able to smoothly control her sexuality there. In the bedroom he can't afford to be passive at all. He will need to show intense interest in pleasuring her, not in a servant kind of way, but in an owner master kind of way, where he totally dominates her desire, makes her feel sexual play by play, move by move, by giving her intense sexual affection and winning her body, her sexual brain, feeling her body with oxytocin for him. 

 

All of this is brain related. These hyper sexual masculine men in tune with their natural sexual power are not necessarily assholes or bad men, they are just more viable in the sexual romance department. 

Love is a matter of both brain and the heart. He can win her emotionally but that would later in the relationship that's where his nice guy behavior can be useful. 

Unfortunately attraction is designed in such a way that sex comes first, heart comes later, this is natural sexuality, rule of law, this cannot be erased, attraction cannot be denied or destroyed, just like you can't say no to yummy food, you can't have much of a sense of self control with such matters. Both women and men who want passion need to be sexually attractive in their own ways and often in most sexual styles, the man has to lead first and the female submits to his leading. Without sexual passion there is little interest. 

Being a nice guy might work long term in relationships but not with attraction. The nice guy should not stop being nice. But he can be more in touch with his inner masculine sexuality and develop it more so he feels naturally sexual and learns some romantic tricks to get her sexual attention  

The only rule is this. If you get her sexual attention, you get a chance for sex as well as relationship. If you can't get her sexual attention, then you get friendzoned. Very simple. You make the move. 

If you have taken her sexual interest or attention then you have marched ahead of all the friend zone material guys to the top of the list and secured your position sexually in her mind, now she can't forget you.

If she is not deeply sexually attracted to you, that is you did not exhibit your masculinity perfectly or did not own her, and she is still in a relationship with you, this relationship then lacks magnetism and is very dry, if she finds a more domineering male with sexual passion, she will easily get attracted to him and cheat on you. So sexual attraction is a very important part, not the most pleasant part, but an important part in securing and maintaining relationships. 

 

[Lyubov]

 

the concept of the "nice guy" is sort of a joke in it's nomenclature. "passive aggressive guy" is what the term actually means. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Lyubov

[Preety_India]

3 hours ago, Lyubov said:

 

the concept of the "nice guy" is sort of a joke in it's nomenclature. "passive aggressive guy" is what the term actually means. 

I'd add that there is also the term called creepy nice guys. 

 

[Chew211]

There's 2 types of Niceguys. 

The first type is the Niceguy who isn't nice. Let's call this type the (Manipulative) Weasel. 

The second type of Niceguy. Is ACTUALLY nice. So nice he's not on the radar. So nice nice that he's not really represented. Let's call this type the Castrati. 

OP is talking about Castrati. Those who are saying Niceguys ain't nice are talking about the Weasels. 

Masculine men are assertive in trying to get the object of desire. They don't care about "rules". They also don't care about being confident, looking cool, etc. They go after what they want, and if they fail, then they make themselves better by continuing to try. 

Castrati do not go after, or in extreme cases don't recognize, their desire. 

Weasels do go after their desire, but they don't want to deal with conflict, rejection, or any other unpleasantness. 

Masculine men deal with unpleasantness. 

Women by default have to deal with unpleasantness. 

Unfortunately for the guys here, including me at times, the woman is the Subject Presumed to Enjoy-- but such doesn't necessarily exist. Even if there theoretically was a chick like that, that doesn't make the world view any less deluded. 

 

[Jacob Morres]

On 4/27/2021 at 6:24 AM, universe said:

Nice guys don't respect women. They think they own them for whatever fucked up reason.

No I don't agree with this definition 

From my personal experience with the people I know this isnt the case..  

 

[Shin]

Just now, Jacob Morres said:

No I don't agree with this definition 

From my personal experience with the people I know this isnt the case..  

 

From my past experience of being a nice guy, it's 100% true.

Maybe you don't agree with the definition of nice guy though.