Enlightenment is NOT about seeking a state

[WaveInTheOcean]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@The0SelfAwakening can't be taught.   One has to reach it for themselves.   The issue with the no self folks or the neo adviata crap is most likely their Awakening was conceptual and not actual.  Which is a shame. Of course being a shame is relative.  Everything happens precisely as it is.  

Yup. I like to differentiate between awakening "in mind" and awakening "in heart".

What I call "being enlightened" is when BOTH your mind AND heart is fully transcended, awakened.

The "heart"-part is the 'hard part' (pun intended) for a lot of atheistic, rational, INTP, Enneagram Five, logical types of people (basically 75% of peeps following Leo).

The heart part is hard because you can't become awakened in it:

- without pushing your comfort zones to the max
- without listening to and allowing ALL of your emotions to come up
- without direct experience, actuality.

The heart part is especially hard because all INTP/Enneagram Fives are most likely not 'real' introverts, or real logicians, or real nerds or real competition/mental-minded aloof people. Their soul is probably filled with a desire to

- FEEL
- CONNECT
- LOVE
- EXPRESS
- DEEPLY BOND WITH OTHERS

However, all their desire to withdraw from society, to think and rationalize everything, to observe (instead of participate in) life, to create firm boundaries with other people in fear of getting too close to someone etc etc.. is VERY LIKELY survival/defense-mechanism learned in childhood (3-18 years old) due to some pretty intense trauma, that they are NOT fully conscious of today.


All fives, intps, go talk to a pyschotherapist, a good one who knows about trauma, and then be honest and open with her (or him) and cry your hearts out. 

Love <3

The trauma probably has to do with early experiences of getting exluded from the peers' community, and perhaps even bullying, or perhaps father-figures who were emotionally inept / detached. But lots of other possible causes out there.

Being awakened in heart is equal to deep inner peace, almost no fear, free expression.

Being awakened in mind is equal to deep knowledge of Oneness, Nothingness, the illusory nature of ego/thought, and basically the perspectival nature of reality. A deep knowledge of the mechanics of duality. A deep understanding of relativism/post-modernism, basically a full embodiment of both stage green & yellow thinking.

Turquoise requires the 'heart' part + fully integration of stage yellow.

Do know that some people are kind-of awakened in heart but pretty asleep in mind. Sociopaths for instance, we could say, zen devils, or some extreme hippies.

Likewise a lot of people on this forum are very much awake in mind but seemingly kind of lack the heart part still ( @VeganAwake, @traveler, im looking at you xD). It is basically another more benevolent form of zen delivery, denying their own unconscious attachment to concepts by masking it with their hillarious/sad nihilistic "no-self / no-one / nothingness / nothing to understand / nothing to attain / nothing to realize / no one to realize / nothing to do / nothing to get to / nothing to become / no one to become" - jargon, which all INTPs/enneagram Fives, including me (i've been there) know all too well =D 

Also guys, now I tagged you for lolz, but you don't have to come in and tell me your repetitious (and often funnily obviously shadow-projective) lines of:

"that's just a belief, narrative, story, conceptual-thinking, cute model"

"that's just what appears there, and it's perfectly fine - for no one"

I got it.

You deny Love.

But even though you deny it, that is still Love. Reality is fucking Love. How could it be otherwise? :-) <3

Edited April 27, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[Raptorsin7]

12 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

Yup. I like to differentiate between awakening "in mind" and awakening "in heart".

What I call "being enlightened" is when BOTH your mind AND heart is fully transcended, awakened.

The "heart"-part is the 'hard part' (pun intended) for a lot of atheistic, rational, INTP, Enneagram Five, logical types of people (basically 75% of peeps following Leo).

The heart part is hard because you can't become awakened in it:

- without pushing your comfort zones to the max
- without listening to and allowing ALL of your emotions to come up
- without direct experience, actuality.

The heart part is especially hard because all INTP/Enneagram Fives are most likely not 'real' introverts, or real logicians, or real nerds or real competition/mental-minded aloof people. Their soul is probably filled with a desire to

- FEEL
- CONNECT
- LOVE
- EXPRESS
- DEEPLY BOND WITH OTHERS

However, all their desire to withdraw from society, to think and rationalize everything, to observe (instead of participate in) life, to create firm boundaries with other people in fear of getting too close to someone etc etc.. is VERY LIKELY survival/defense-mechanism learned in childhood (3-18 years old) due to some pretty intense trauma, that they are NOT fully conscious of today.


All fives, intps, go talk to a pyschotherapist, a good one who knows about trauma, and then be honest and open with her (or him) and cry your hearts out. 

Love <3

The trauma probably has to do with early experiences of getting exluded from the peers' community, and perhaps even bullying, or perhaps father-figures who were emotionally inept / detached. But lots of other possible causes out there.

Being awakened in heart is equal to deep inner peace, almost no fear, free expression.

Being awakened in mind is equal to deep knowledge of Oneness, Nothingness, the illusory nature of ego/thought, and basically the perspectival nature of reality. A deep knowledge of the mechanics of duality. A deep understanding of relativism/post-modernism, basically a full embodiment of both stage green & yellow thinking.

Turquoise requires the 'heart' part + fully integration of stage yellow.

Do know that some people are kind-of awakened in heart but pretty asleep in mind. Sociopaths for instance, we could say, zen devils, or some extreme hippies.

Likewise a lot of people on this forum are very much awake in mind but seemingly kind of lack the heart part still (veganawake, traveler, im looking at you xD). It is basically another more benevolent form of zen delivery, denying their own unconscious attachment to concepts by masking it with their hillarious/sad nihilistic "no-self / no-one / nothingness / nothing to understand / nothing to attain / nothing to realize / no one to realize / nothing to do / nothing to get to / nothing to become / no one to become" - jargon, which all INTPs/enneagram Fives, including me (i've been there) know all too well =D 

Wow a what a great post. This should be it's own thread

[Someone here]

@WaveInTheOcean

I'm not saying you shouldn't do psychedelics. those experience are real, maybe they are psychosis or whatever, but they are.. life shifting for me and real great energy in the spine.. no matter if you believe me or not, I don't care. I had them without using any substances. 

don't bother if you don't believe, of course everything looks like a mindfuck, you're a coming from a mindfucking society ( just like me )

When I had my backslash, I was thinking leo gura was send by governement to brainwash me haha ( this kind of shit )

it's just your thought dude, and that's very your thought, not a mindfuck I m sayin to you. Yes people are abusive here, they are all kind of crazy, but that's the whole world who is my friend.

Enlightenment is about discovering your true-self and nature. Discovering heart (not physical heart)/ center of your body's natural desire. This is not mean to grant you any life purpose or some profession to make money. What's true-self? It's you without your mind/body.with your body mind. With psychedelicds. Without them. With heart awaken and not awaken and all that BS. 

 

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, James123 said:

Dont you think that it serves to ego?

Not really. So to speak, I’d say for every finite mind which utilizes the psychedelic experience to further delude into inflation and infatuation of self image via self referential thinking, there are hundred’s which experience disillusionment. And it’s only grey at that. I try to be mindful to keep foundation (“foundation”) in convo’s too, precisely because of what you’re saying. 

Quote

Mind is already confused, dont you think that it will easily mislead as saying i am god? ? or experiencing the mystical god head? ? psychedelics are like using the best tools to cheat to win and take shortcut, however just cheating the self. Lol. ?  thats why self gets more confused. And enlightenment becomes more impossible than used to be. Such as the forum, at least half of the forum uses psychedelics but except you (no you) lol, none of them awake. Moreover, they are more lost on the path.

Depends how it’s sized up. It could also be said for each one on this forum, exploring practices, inspecting thought, and experiencing psychedelics, there are over a hundred million solid lifelong sleepers. Very hard to point to but... would you rather justify and rationalize, or have a solid cry and release? Me too. Imagine being in the opposite shoes. It’s easy to love, not caring about thoughts, seeing thoughts don’t belong to anyone. Not so easy when / while it’s not so easy. 

Psychedelics may be only experience, sure. But ever experience one talking about them, ‘who’ hasn’t even experienced them? That clarity alone is worthwhile. Just opinion here. Get’s loopy quick! ? (not really).

In regard to that “more are lost on the path”, I would suggest, more adopt and contribute to co-creating / spreading the belief that psychedelics lead to enlightenment, and or that enlightenment is going to change their life or their clarity of emotional experience, or reduce monkey mind, or heal, etc. Analogously perhaps, taking a lunch break is great. Does it get anything done (so to speak), no it doesn’t. Same ‘work’ is still there to be addressed. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Live in the present moment so fully, that you can't chase anything anymore, because there is nothing to chase if you're content and fulfilled by resting as yourself.
If you can actually manage to get to that point, then enlightenment is only a matter of time, because the very nature of the illusive sense of self is seeking ...

A cat or a dog or an ape is fully content and fulfilled by an unreflected life. But animals aren't enlightened. They are only awake in heart, not in mind. Obviously.

Just like small human kids (2-5 years old). They are often VERY VERY awake in heart. God, have you seen these jewels? They are so free: FULLY expressing WHATEVER arises: laughter, cry, rage, WHATEVER man, it just gets expressed. They are SO fucking immersed in The Now. EVERYTHING is exciting for them. That ant crawling in the sand? They see it and FEEL it as GOD. Haha.

But are 2-5 year old kids enlightened? HELL FUCKING NO. They are cruel bastards, deeply asleep in MIND. But god are they amazing too; so awake in HEART.

What happens the kids grow up? Social conditioning. Trauma. More ego. ... the result? They become asleep in Heart, but at least they have the brain capable of becoming both awakened in Mind and Heart, if they just follow the spiritual path with enough authenticity for Truth/Freedom and don't care about eternal suffering (cos that will come before Actual Enlightenment, if you're serious enough). Look at Jesus or Buddha, was their life-histories free of suffering? Hell fucking no. Did they transcend all of it (transmuting it into Love, revealing its true nature) when they finally Awakened? Hell fucking yes.

You are always living in the present moment fully. You can never not do that. You ARE The Present Moment. The only difference between Buddha and you is that Buddha is fully AWARE (not only in mind, but also in heart) of IT: that he is THAT, that he LIVES in that.

Reality is Love/God. You either feel and see that, or you don't. That's the difference between being enlightened or not. Simple as that. End of discussion  <3
 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

You don't need any of that. all mental sufferings excluding headaches and so on, are all illusions by mind/ego what the F you want to call it. That's it. Read self-help books if you want to resolve your mental sufferings, rather chasing some magical experience, It's better and easier that way.  Fuck some ninjas lurking around and telling you stuff "you need to be peaceful" "you need to not get angry"..."you need to blast off on psychedelics and fly to the 10th dimension".. They're just mentally masturbating over you. 

The spiritual bypassing here is astonding. Wauw bro. 

This is some next level zen-devilry neo-advaita no-self nihilistic BULLSHIT here. What a fucking load of deep--crap-horseshit, brother. (A case of kind of awake in mind but still pretty deep asleep in heart, yet in the deep unconscious shadows, the ego is *CONCEPTUALLY* projecting externally as if IT is indeed awake in heart, while it's clearly not, hehe, ... these unconscious projections never cease to surprise/amaze me).

Let me repeat what I wrote:
 

Quote

However, if you cultivate your consciousness & keep watering the garden of your mind, and stay healthy in body & mind, then sure, it's easily possible to basically more or less keep the state of deep inner peace/freedom/free expression until your death,

And then let me repeat: YOU DO FUCKING NEED THAT.

ENLIGHTENMENT IS A STATE. STOP THE FUCKING IGNORANT SPIRITUAL BYPASSING. IT'S PISSING ME OFF  <3

Wauw man. I'm speaking from direct experience here. Not from some conceptual ideas/belief systems in my head. I have tried everything I write. Directly experienced. Actuality. I've been to the deepest pits of hell, you can't even imagine. Likewise, I've been to the deepest heights of heaven, you can't even imagine either. And right now, I'm sober pretty high in heaven, if you ask me :-) But it's a state. I can lose it if I go down the nihilistic zen-devilry meaningless route of saying "NOTHING MATTERS SO I MIGHT AS WELL EAT JUNK FOOD AND MASTURBATE IN FRONT OF MY PC ALL DAY TELLING PEOPLE HOW NOTHING MATTERS ON AN ONLINE FORUM. HIHI LOOK AT ME. NO ONE HERE BRO! NOTHING TO DO. NOTHING TO REALIZE. JUST SMOKE WEED AND SMILE LIKE YOU'RE HAPPY!" ... fucking spiritual bypassing is what it is. The immensely sneaky ways of ego never cease to amaze me either  

[Someone here]

@Nahm thanks man. 

@WaveInTheOcean you are a waste of time.  To ignore list. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Nahm thanks man. 

@WaveInTheOcean you are a waste of time.  To ignore list. 

Okay bro. Fair enough. I love you still tho, good luck in your pursuits <3 You shouldn't take anything I write here personal, I'm just having fun here :-) Love <3

Edited April 27, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[Eternal Unity]

Yes, it is. Of course it is. You want to achieve enlightenment. Or attain... whatever the hell you want to call it...

Isn't it why you're here? The Quiet Desperation

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Eternal Unity
Typo

[Raptorsin7]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Nahm thanks man. 

@WaveInTheOcean you are a waste of time.  To ignore list. 

LOL dude. Don't. Re-read that post 100 times until something clicks. That is the truth

[WaveInTheOcean]

21 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@WaveInTheOcean

I'm not saying you shouldn't do psychedelics. those experience are real, maybe they are psychosis or whatever

You know who is truly drunk, psychotic, hallucinating his/her balls of?

It's not guys or girls tripping their balls off on psychedelics (allthough that is also a kind of getting drunk, hallucinating, just a more mild kind)

God imagning Itself as a separate human body-mind.

Drunk on what? Himself. Her own Infinite Imagination -- so Infinite it is capable of imagining seemingly real finiteness/separateness/fragmentation.

[WaveInTheOcean]

You have to realize/see -- or just be open to the possiblity -- that THIS LIFE (YOUR LIFE) is actually Your own completely free choice. You chose everything you've ever experienced as mr. xxxx. It was all planned out. Your doing. Intelligence.

This Life/Dream/Maya HAS rules. It has boundaries. YOU CREATED THESE RULES! You CREATED THE BOUNDARIES!

You decided heavy metals were bad for the body. You decided not exercising was bad for your body-mind. You decided eating junk food all day was bad.  Etc etc etc. You decided meditation was good for you. You decided psychedelics were hacks to realize Your True Self again. You decided eating spinach is healthy. You decided having sex from time to time is healthy. You decided socialzing with friends/gf/bf is healthy. You decided reading books is good. You decided contemplating is Good. Etc etc. The list goes on. THIS LIFE HAS RULES. 

YES THE RULES ARE IMAGINARY. BUT THAT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER AS LONG AS YOU DON't **FEEL** THAT THEY ARE IMAGINARY.

You see? There's a difference between "believing/knowing" :: "oh the rules are imaginary, so they don't matter"... and then FEELING IT. BEING IT.

You can't eat tuna all day and expect to become enlightened, cos those heavy metals will fuck your brain up.

You can't conceptually sit in your house and masturbate all day and not ever socialize and expect to become enlightened, cos the human body-organism evolved from monkeys. We ARE SOCIAL CREATURES. We NEED connection, bonding, intimacy, belonging.

And we need 'the beyond'. We need a sense of the divine, the ineffable, the mystery, the sublime.

And we need 'becoming'. We need a sense of growth, path, direction, healing, purpose.

The three B's: Belonging, Beyond, Becoming. 

If you deny any of these three B's, you are deluded, sorry to say it.

A truly enlightened being doesn't supress or deny the humane parts of him / humanity. He builds on top of all the humane things inside of him (Belonging, Becoming, Beyond -> God), remains grounded, yet is also flying around in heaven simultaneously.

Ground <--> Heaven, they are ultimately seen to be identical

Edited April 27, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[Someone here]

@WaveInTheOcean stop spamming my thread with your nonsense. 

25 minutes ago, Eternal Unity said:

Yes, it is. Of course it is. You want to achieve enlightenment. Or attain... whatever the hell you want to call it...

Isn't it why you're here? The Quiet Desperation

 

Reread my comments. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@WaveInTheOcean stop spamming my thread with your nonsense. 

Reread my comments. 

Haha I love you bro. Sorry if I offended you (your ego). Shit happens sometimes, you know? It is just God/Love though.
Also I thought you blocked me. Why read nonsense, just block me and get on with your life. Good luck <3

But If I'm being honest, you should really go out and take a walk and take a chill pill and reread my comments again when your emotions are chilled. I'm not trying to put you down or spread nonsense or anything. Stay open <3

Edited April 27, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[Raptorsin7]

@Someone here You are very dense. Wake up

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

What I'm expressing is pretty simple. Take it or leave it. You seem to also be stuck on chasing psychedelic experiences thinking that some day in the future you will reach a critical point of insight and BOOM.. "enlightenment will happen". Well that's pretty much the biggest obstacle to enlightment as taught in ancient wisdom. Thinking that you need to be somewhere else and cultivate a different state of mind. Cultivation is the selfs/egos best friend. 

The ending means the ending of continuity/cultivation, progression. 

That may be why it takes so long. To depend on time. The ego always gets what is wants. To push freedom in time. Pretty groovy dude. 

You are creating a character that is "chasing psychedelic experiences that thinks some day in the future he will reach a critical point of insight and BOOM.. "enlightenment will happen". That is your character creation. As well there is creation of elaborate stories about obstacles, enlightenment, ancient wisdom, cultivation - why things take so long etc. 

I'm not saying that story engagement is right or wrong. Part of the human experience is to engage within stories we create. . . I'm saying it is one story book in a library of story books. If a mind wants to stay immersed within a story book, go for it. Yet a mind contracted within a story book, it often becomes overly rigid and there is a price to pay for that. 

[The0Self]

1 minute ago, Forestluv said:

You are creating a character that is "chasing psychedelic experiences that thinks some day in the future he will reach a critical point of insight and BOOM.. "enlightenment will happen". That is your character creation. As well there is creation of elaborate stories about obstacles, enlightenment, ancient wisdom, cultivation - why things take so long etc.

^^

[WaveInTheOcean]

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Someone here what you are missing is that reality is paradoxical and transcends logic.   You are trying to capture awakening with logic. 

bingo

[WaveInTheOcean]

2 hours ago, Forestluv said:

The whirlpool goes round and round. . . Some beings stay in the same whirlpool for years, even a lifetime.

I prefer to jumps whirlpools. 

You really have something with words Forestlove. I like it.

.. @Someone here maybe transform your rage/energy into some physical activity. running comes to mind. 

often, when we are the most stuck in conceptual thinking, we can't see it. We are so immersed in the conceptual patterns of thinking, like a fish immersed in water, that we don't see the full picture: the ocean. We replace direct experience with concepts, believing our words and thoughts are direct experience. Often we project onto others that THEY are the ones doing the conceptual thinking, ... "while me? hah, no one here bro! just pure being!" ...  

It seems like you are close to a break-through. A breaking point. Slamming your head against the walls in your special unique watery 'pool of logical thinking'. Sooner or later those walls will break! Either that, or perhaps you will see you could just jump out of the pool --- aaaaaaaaaahhhhhh that feeling. wauw <3

Edited April 27, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Wake up 

I'm wide awake. Hello? 

@WaveInTheOcean

Be respectful and stop projecting nonsense out of your ass. I reported you. This forum is not your dumping ground. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

11 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I'm wide awake. Hello? 

@WaveInTheOcean

Be respectful and stop projecting nonsense out of your ass. I reported you. This forum is not your dumping ground. 

seems like we became strangers. I thought we were One. Friends. Brothers. ... :-'(
going to bed now. i'm actually sorry if I was disrespectful. I get some kind of mania some times, as you can all see. Sorry. Actually just trying to help, and maybe deepen my own understanding by writing it down. You all have great questions and are all great 'initiators' of thoughts inside this imaginary vessel we call WaveInTheOcean... Sometimes the one who needs help is the one trying to help... hehe :~)

 Love ya all. Good night <3

- @Raptorsin7 thank you for your kind words <3

Edited April 27, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean