Day game: minimizing flakes

[StarStruck]

So I'm getting a lot of flakes and it is frustrating.

One accepted my offer to take a walk and get coffee and stopped responding. Another one, doesn't respond to my text at all.

And today I approached a nice lady, she was nice and blushed when I started talking to her. She asked questions back and she was relaxed during the whole middle part of the conversation. At one point she said she was in a hurry, so I started to wrap things up, tell her I want to take her to get a coffee: she accepts. So I give her my number+name, and tell her to text me so I get her number but she was in a real hurry so she just walks off without texting me back. I yell at her to text me back but she just ignores me. She had earphones in though.

I'm starting to see a pattern. When shit starts getting real and we are making plans girls always flake on me. I don't really know what I'm doing wrong. I'm just relaxed and in my manhood. I give space to the other person so she can ask questions back and they do. They are relaxed and seem like enjoying the conversation.

Probably it is the neediness? Maybe something else? I'm trying not to be needy but it is hard not to pretend to be needy when I'm simply needy. To be clear: in the conversations I'm not needy but they just can sense it.

[intotheblack]

Because day approaches are uncomfortable for women, you are a stranger and it creeps us out easily.  what probably happened is the women felt pestered, so they gave away the number just to get rid of you... 

it's also a hassle to go out with a random stranger who approached you on the street, since it's obvious they just want to sleep with you.. and many girls can't be assed with that...

better to meet in social situations, with other people around.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by intotheblack

[aurum]

@StarStruck

It's hard to say based just on the little that you shared. One potential is that you're pushing for the number and so it's just easier for girls to avoid conflict and give it to you than not. But they're not ultimately that invested or that serious about seeing you. You might do better pulling back and qualifying more before setting any sort of date up.

You also have to realize that cold approach in general is always going to be inherently flakey. These girls don't know you and they don't know anyone you know. You're not part of their social circle. So there's essentially zero social repercussions for them flaking on you, versus if you were part of the same social circle.

And in general, it's just difficult to get anyone that invested in anything in a short interaction that lasts a few minutes. You're literally going from a complete stranger to someone she might want to spend a few hours with on a date. It can be done, but I've found it's just not ideal.

This is why I think cold approach should be a last resort when it comes to dating. If you've got no other options, fine. Do a cold approach. But it's not what you should be consistently relying on for your dating life in my option.

Dating should come from your social circle. It just makes everything easier. Of course, if you don't have a social circle, you may have to cold approach to make that happen. But cold approach will always be extremely limited.

[StarStruck]

12 minutes ago, intotheblack said:

Because day approaches are uncomfortable for women, you are a stranger and it creeps us out easily.  what probably happened is the women felt pestered, so they gave away the number just to get rid of you... 

it's also a hassle to go out with a  random stranger who approached you on the street, since it's obvious they just want to sleep with you.. and many girls cant be assed with that...

better to meet in social situations, with other people around.

 

 

Social situations gives social proof. I get what you mean but there are a lot of men on this forum and elsewhere (PUA community) that can get away with being a stranger on the street.

The PUA community encourages to project sexual intent through non-verbal. I don't do that too much because I have a hard time creating comfort (apparently).

3 minutes ago, aurum said:

@StarStruck

It's hard to say based just on the little that you shared. One potential is that you're pushing for the number and so it's just easier for girls to avoid conflict and give it to you than not. But they're not ultimately that invested or that serious about seeing you. You might do better pulling back and qualifying more before setting any sort of date up.

You also have to realize that cold approach in general is always going to be inherently flakey. These girls don't know you and they don't know anyone you know. You're not part of their social circle. So there's essentially zero social repercussions for them flaking on you, versus if you were part of the same social circle.

And in general, it's just difficult to get anyone that invested in anything in a short interaction that lasts a few minutes. You're literally going from a complete stranger to someone she might want to spend a few hours with on a date. It can be done, but I've found it's just not ideal.

This is why I think cold approach should be a last resort when it comes to dating. If you've got no other options, fine. Do a cold approach. But it's not what you should be consistently relying on for your dating life in my option.

Dating should come from your social circle. It just makes everything easier. Of course, if you don't have a social circle, you may have to cold approach to make that happen. But cold approach will always be extremely limited.

I don't have a social circle with a lot of hot girls.

On this forum people say it can be done. Some users said they have abundance through day game.

In every topic, Leo recommends people to do day game. A lot of guys just don't have the balls to do it. I finally grew some but it is not enough.

In PUA they say social hook point is 5 minutes. I guess this is not true. It is really about the emotional connection, not the duration, or social proof.

I'm starting to get more into her personal rather than asking general questions about her life and qualify but I'm starting to believe it is a numbers game. I'm doing like 5-10 approaches for the last 3 weeks and it has been disappointing.

[Loving Radiance]

@StarStruck  Even with you being not needy it's a flake. Expect all gals to flake, especially those ones that seem to be most flattered by and attracted to you - keeps you sane. Plan your day as if they would flake & be flexible enough, if the date really happens. You can construct whatever story you like about why they flake, but it's just a story you use to comfort yourself and preserve your self-image. In the end you don't know. Be comfortable with not knowing why they flaked. Don't even give a shit about any reason. For you there is no reason. Either they flaked or not.

Also have clear boundaries about the number of flakes from the same person. Doesn't matter if she's attractive  or what.

The need to minimize flakes in daygame is coming from a limited lens. Be fine with or without her flaking. Keep doing daygame and soon you won't care about flakes.

[Harlen Kelly]

@aurum I have slept with over 70+ chicks primarily from cold approach. Cold approach is challenging at the beginning because it has a steep learning curve, but it gets ridiculously easy after a while, it's actually incredible how easy it gets once you have done it for a long enough time. 

Most of my friends who were into pick up met their current partners from cold approach as well. OP needs to realize that he is not going to get results immediately because it takes time to perfect the skills of dating. 

Social circle IS NOT a reliable way of dating because it is severely limited and normies who are naturally good with women usually meet them through socializing even though they don't call it ''cold approach''. 

@StarStruck For how long have you done cold approach?

Edited April 26, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[StarStruck]

9 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

@aurum I have slept with over 70+ chicks primarily from cold approach. Cold approach is challenging at the beginning because it has a steep learning curve, but it gets ridiculously easy after a while, it's actually incredible how easy it gets once you have done it for a long enough time. 

Most of my friends who were into pick up met their current partners from cold approach as well. OP needs to realize that he is not going to get results immediately because it takes time to perfect the skills of dating. 

Social circle IS NOT a reliable way of dating because it is severely limited and normies who are naturally good with women usually meet them through socializing even though they don't call it ''cold approach''. 

@StarStruck For how long have you done cold approach?

Since 3 weeks I'm doing day game. And before that I did some night game but I didn't know what I was doing. I was a different person last year. Me approaching and having actual 10-20 minute talks with hotties during the day is a huge success in my book. What do you think I'm doing wrong? Usually I have a strong presence, I show intention, and I get into her emotional space. I usually fuck up at the end by not knowing what to say or becoming nervous about the close.

[StarStruck]

50 minutes ago, Peter Miklis said:

If they are receptive to your approach, you shouldn't ask for the number, but try to escalate the situation. Obviously, this lady was busy and in hurry, but next time you find a girl that shows receptive body language, you shouldn't reduce the interaction to a phone number.

Because at that point, you robbed yourself of intimacy that cannot be replicated throught yet another number on her phone. No wonder she flaked on you, you were not really that important enough to her. Plans mean nothing.

What I would do is try to go for an instant date, or something like that. If she's really interested, she'll make the time in her schedule.

Usually I plan a date on the spot. Something like: what about coffee on next Saturday at 14:00 or something.

I'm not confident enough for instant pulls. I feel like she would freak out. I don't think she was that interested in me. Plus she had a bag of groceries with her. But I do get your point. Perhaps in the future I will try that. For now I'm just focusing on being able to do 10 approaches per week effortlessly and being able to calibrate. Currently I'm not socially sawy to calibrate in every situation and if I know I can't I just don't approach.

1 hour ago, Loving Radiance said:

@StarStruck  Even with you being not needy it's a flake. Expect all gals to flake, especially those ones that seem to be most flattered by and attracted to you - keeps you sane. Plan your day as if they would flake & be flexible enough, if the date really happens. You can construct whatever story you like about why they flake, but it's just a story you use to comfort yourself and preserve your self-image. In the end you don't know. Be comfortable with not knowing why they flaked. Don't even give a shit about any reason. For you there is no reason. Either they flaked or not.

Also have clear boundaries about the number of flakes from the same person. Doesn't matter if she's attractive  or what.

The need to minimize flakes in daygame is coming from a limited lens. Be fine with or without her flaking. Keep doing daygame and soon you won't care about flakes.

That is my problem. I overthink it and I can't stop it. I don't really know where this is coming from. What I need to do is just to keep approaching but these kind of setbacks just have a big impact on me.

[Harlen Kelly]

@StarStruck Most likely you are making the mistake that most newbies make at the beginning which is not to make the conversation man to woman, you typically do this unconsciously to avoid a hard rejection. Todd v and Tay have great advice on this. 

I want you to understand this, if you are not getting results from ''cold approach'' or socializing, it is not because cold approach does not work, because it has worked exceptionally well for me and thousands of guys who persist and keep going. If you don't get this through your head, you will end up quitting before you can harvest the fruits of the learning process. This is perhaps the most important mindset you have to adopt at the beginning. 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[StarStruck]

@Harlen Kelly who is Tay?

soon I'm starting with the Todd's the System course. 

[Harlen Kelly]

@StarStruck Tay social

[aurum]

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

On this forum people say it can be done. Some users said they have abundance through day game.

Yes it can be done. Not denying it. I've certainly have found success doing day game.

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

In every topic, Leo recommends people to do day game

Sure, if you have no friends and no social status, that's an optimal strategy.

Otherwise it's just silly to rely on that.

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

I don't have a social circle with a lot of hot girls.

Then keep doing cold approach. I'm just saying, there's levels to this. And cold approach is at the bottom.

32 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

I have slept with over 70+ chicks primarily from cold approach. Cold approach is challenging at the beginning because it has a steep learning curve, but it gets ridiculously easy after a while, it's actually incredible how easy it gets once you have done it for a long enough time. 

There's definitely a learning curve and you can improve. But if you don't believe cold approach is at the bottom of the tier of meeting women, I would say you're in denial.

35 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

Social circle IS NOT a reliable way of dating because it is severely limited and normies who are naturally good with women usually meet them through socializing even though they don't call it ''cold approach''. 

Not only is it reliable, it's better than cold approach in every way.

The fact that normies who know nothing can meet a girl through their social circle is proof of that.

Meeting someone through socializing and not "cold approach" is not a slander. That's a good thing.

Cold approach is for guys who have no other options.

And hey, sometimes you really don't have any other options. In which case I'd recommend cold approach. But let's be realistic about its potentiality for dating and its limitations.

It also depends on what your dating goals are. If you're just trying to have a bunch of anonymous, random casual sex, then cold approach might be better in some situations. Simply because you want to remain as anonymous as possible. But even then, I'd still put my money on the guy with the strong social circle.

But if you're actually looking for something deeper and an actual relationship, social circle is far superior. No questions asked.

[SLuxy]

@StarStruck Keep talking to her after you get the number.

[Harlen Kelly]

@aurum I have a wake up call for you, most normies who get laid through their social circle have a pathetic dating life. Having an abundant sex life is a rare occurrence which most guys don't get because they are lazy. 

And no, social circle is not a reliable way to consistently meet new high quality women. 

Plus, knowing cold approach at a high level allows you to build social circles more efficiently because of your social skills. 

And what does being anonymous have to do with anything? I didn't get that.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[aurum]

1 hour ago, Harlen Kelly said:

 I have a wake up call for you, most normies who get laid through their social circle have a pathetic dating life. Having an abundant sex life is a rare occurrence which most guys don't get because they are lazy. 

You don't need to wake me up to anything. Never claimed they didn't have a pathetic dating life. I would agree having a sex life where you're having sex with a lot of different girls is extremely rare.

I'm simply stating the fact that these guys meet a girl at all is a testament to how powerful social circle can be.

Understand I'm not arguing for a normie sex life when I talk about social circle. I'm talking about something way beyond that.

1 hour ago, Harlen Kelly said:

And no, social circle is not a reliable way to consistently meet new high quality women. 

Then argue your point. You haven't shown why you believe this or how social circle cannot be reliable for meeting new high quality women.

I can tell you why I believe it does. It's because for the years that I was involved in the PUA community, the number one thing that consistently got me results was social circle. Even if I met a girl off cold approach, it was usually social circle that "sealed the deal" so to speak.

For instance, I met my last long term girl friend doing cold approach. But were it not for my social circle, I doubt it would have gone anywhere beyond a good initial approach. Social circle is a deep honest signal.

1 hour ago, Harlen Kelly said:

Plus, knowing cold approach at a high level allows you to build social circles more efficiently because of your social skills

We agree on this. Not saying guys shouldn't learn cold approach at some point, I think it's an excellent skill / tool to have.

1 hour ago, Harlen Kelly said:

And what does being anonymous have to do with anything? I didn't get that.

Let's say I want to hook up tonight.

I could go out to a night club, do the whole cold approach thing, meet a girl I've never met before, have sex, and then never see her or her friends again. Essentially we can both just fade out of each others lives. There's little to no strings attached. You're essentially anonymous.

But in a social circle it can be different. If that girl is in your circle, you're probably going to see her again. Word might get around to other people you know that the two of you had sex. It adds layers of complication to casual sex.

That's why I said it might be more difficult in some situations if your goal is purely as much casual sex as possible. Though a guy could get around that or even leverage it to his advantage through social proof.

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, StarStruck said:

So I'm getting a lot of flakes and it is frustrating.

One accepted my offer to take a walk and get coffee and stopped responding. Another one, doesn't respond to my text at all.

Flake rate is high regardless of what you do. It's a numbers game. Even a 5% close rate would be awesome.

But of course you can improve your conversion rate. Always push for an instant coffee date. If you can get her into an instant coffee date this will increase your rate a lot.

The biggest problem is that you need more time with her to build a connection. This is very hard to do in 5 minutes. So the more time you can persuader her to spend with you, getting to know you, the more of an impact you'll have and the more she will remember you when you text.

Also keep in mind many attractive girls have boyfriends. You should screen them for it early on so as not to waste your time. If she has a boyfriend she will not text you back. Don't waste your time. Screen girls.

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At one point she said she was in a hurry, so I started to wrap things up, tell her I want to take her to get a coffee: she accepts.

Push for instant coffee. Don't let her run off with empty promises. A promise from a girl is less than worthless.

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I yell at her to text me back but she just ignores me. She had earphones in though.

Never do that. You clearly failed to attract her and she was just looking for any excuse to leave without a hassle. Yelling at her to call you back is needy as fuck and therefore she never will.

Girls will give out their number easily just to get to you leave them alone. So shooting for numbers is pointless. You need to shoot for building attraction and connection. If you don't build attraction + connection the number is useless. One deep connection is worth 50 numbers.

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I'm starting to see a pattern. When shit starts getting real and we are making plans girls always flake on me. I don't really know what I'm doing wrong.

Two things:

1) Nothing is going wrong per se. Most girls will simply not sleep with you no matter how good you are. Just increase your numbers.

2) You are not grabbing her attention enough. You are not being attractive enough. You are not being memorable enough. You are not building connection enough. You are not stimulating her emotionally enough. You are not being fun and playful enough. You are not telling her enough about yourself.

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Probably it is the neediness? Maybe something else? I'm trying not to be needy but it is hard not to pretend to be needy when I'm simply needy. To be clear: in the conversations I'm not needy but they just can sense it.

The bigger problem is simply lack of building connection. She has little reason to call you back because in her mind you take up as much mental real estate as an ant. You need to do something to grab her attention and get her invested in you. Your job is to give her a strong sense of who you are, how cool you would be to date, how lucky she would be to date you. But without saying that explicitly. Tell more cool and interesting stories about yourself. You need to strike a chord with her and draw her in with interesting stories that display your value. For example, tell her about cool places you've traveled to, spiritual work you're doing, business projects you're working on, your dreams, etc.

And, of course, flirt with her and make her laugh.

[universe]

8 hours ago, StarStruck said:

I'm starting to see a pattern. When shit starts getting real and we are making plans girls always flake on me.

Flake is love, flake is life.

But what is real is always now, when you two have a dance, a conversation. Going to a coffee date, getting her number, going on a date, having sex, those are just extensions of that real moment.

How do you usually transition to the making plans part?

[StarStruck]

@Leo Gura

Nobody talks about approach etiquette. Do you approach every hot girl when you are out patrolling? Sometimes I have the urge to approach every hot girl and if I don't (which is usual) I can get hard on myself. I go to the city center 2 days per week doing 5 pickups per patrol. I'm very picky with girls and I prefer that nobody sees me when approaching.

 

[StarStruck]

7 hours ago, universe said:

Flake is love, flake is life.

But what is real is always now, when you two have a dance, a conversation. Going to a coffee date, getting her number, going on a date, having sex, those are just extensions of that real moment.

How do you usually transition to the making plans part?

My only option for a date is taking walks. So I ask her if she likes taking ways and if she says yes I suggest that we should buy a coffee and take a walk in the park or city center.

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

@Leo Gura

Nobody talks about approach etiquette.

Well, this very much depends and is subjective.

Just don't be creepy or threatening. That's basically all the etiquette required.

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Do you approach every hot girl when you are out patrolling?

Hot girls are not that common during the day. If you see one, you should approach. I've never had the problem where there are too many hot girls in one area to approach. This would be a very high quality problem.

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Sometimes I have the urge to approach every hot girl and if I don't (which is usual) I can get hard on myself.

You should approach every girl you're genuinely attracted to. And even some you aren't.

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I go to the city center 2 days per week doing 5 pickups per patrol.

5 day time approaches is about right. Try to make them solid. Depends on location and availability of girls.

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I'm very picky with girls and I prefer that nobody sees me when approaching.

Don't worry about what other people think of you. Just focus on doing a solid approach.

You can approach a girl at a dinner table with 10 people and ask her to stand up and talk to you. It doesn't matter.

I've literally opened girls by reaching my hand across a dinner table of 10. It's quite the showstopper if you manage to stay cool as you do it.

Push yourself to do some ballsy approaches. Just don't be fucking creepy.

As a real test, try hitting on a girl at the mall while she's walking with her mother and father. That'll grow some hair on your balls Make sure she looks over 18.