Why Do Women Cheat? (The Psychology Behind Cheating)

[Emerald]

5 hours ago, Hardkill said:

Would she try to fix an Incel murderer or rapist?

It depends of if the woman has analogous traumas that make her attracted to men who posses these qualities.

[Emerald]

5 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

And because of the fact that the there are so few of those men as you just admitted, the OVERWHELMING majority of attractive women get primarily attracted not to the virtuous lion who has the ''capacity'' of violence (because they are so scarce as you just said), but to your typical, every day, borderline sociopathic fuckboy which is what Leo said and you have denied. 

Would it be better if we lived in a society where more men had integrated their masculinity fully while being very conscious? Yes, but that is incredibly rare and is not representative of today's society. 

That would be equivalent to me asking for a 9 or a 10 that meditates and does consciousness work, are there 10s like that? Yes,  but that is incredibly rare and is not representative of today's society. 

Women will be very attracted to it. It stands out. It’s rare like a woman with a perfect body.

Again, it’s universally attractive because it’s great for survival of woman, child, and tribe. 

But you have to go back and read our discussion. I’m not saying the fuck boy won’t get success. There are plenty of traumatized women who will respond to it as the fuckboys might remind them of their womanizing dad or something. 

But that success that behaving in low consciousness ways can get a man is because of layers of dysfunction in these women as opposed to being a reflection of feminine instinct.

So, I’m saying that there is a distinction between what will work for your own agenda versus what is actually true. 

[Emerald]

4 hours ago, Consept said:

I get what you're saying here, ultimately women do want the underlying beast who's choosing not to act on that nature. I mean a great example is literally 'beauty and the beast', where she is initially scared of the beasts nature but then sees that he has a more tame side and those dualistic nature's are what sparks her love (despite the whole locking her and her dad up). 

With modern society every women is most likely attracted to the same thing it's just either they're to naive to know the difference or there are just not enough men with both sides integrated. But generally I get your point, I also think everyone's kinda saying the same thing just in different ways 

The problem is that they’re not saying the same thing as I am.

Most men on this thread (including Leo) are believing that only the beast is attractive to women. They’re discounting the role of the tamer in the attraction dynamic.

And they will emulate a shittier version of masculinity because they believe that it will be more attractive to more women than integrated masculinity. But they are dead wrong.

Raw instinct by itself isn’t attractive. Raw instinct tamed and channeled up in the form of pro-social behaviors is.

[Emerald]

5 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

That would be equivalent to me asking for a 9 or a 10 that meditates and does consciousness work, are there 10s like that? Yes,  but that is incredibly rare and is not representative of today's society. 

But men have control over this quality.

On a personal development forum full of men trying to improve themselves... why would they choose a shittier form of masculinity to develop themselves into? Why is that the hill to die on?

If you want to know what women respond to, this is what it is.

Men respond to a perfect face and body in the ideal. And they talk about that often. Doesn’t matter if it’s .5% of the population.

And women respond to men who possess these lion/tamer qualities... even if it’s .5% of the population. 

When you have the capacity to develop these virtues and become more universally attractive, why wouldn’t you?

[Consept]

12 minutes ago, Emerald said:

The problem is that they’re not saying the same thing as I am.

Most men on this thread (including Leo) are believing that only the beast is attractive to women. They’re discounting the role of the tamer in the attraction dynamic.

And they will emulate a shittier version of masculinity because they believe that it will be more attractive to more women than integrated masculinity. But they are dead wrong.

Raw instinct by itself isn’t attractive. Raw instinct tamed and channeled up in the form of pro-social behaviors is.

Hmm heres the thing though, youre obviously more mature and youve contemplated a lot of these things and worked on yourself etc. The majority of women who would be attractive physically to most guys on the forum or otherwise, are likely to be young, not as mature, probably not contemplated or worked on themselves. Especially if they are really attractive as theres not much incentive to do so, what these means is in practice when guys go out, even if theyre not narcissistic or sociopathic, they notice that if they play with these traits, they will get more success with good looking girls, it can also work with more mature girls, but in which case you can just switch up your approach anyway. 

Relationship wise, its almost essentially to have the raw but tamed aspect, otherwise there will be problems, but initially im the fuck persona is much more successful. Having said that if you are truly integrated and a high value male you will be at the highest level of attractiveness if its authentic. Problem is thats a lot of work lol, so most, even by definition wont be able to reach those levels. 

[Emerald]

9 minutes ago, Consept said:

Hmm heres the thing though, youre obviously more mature and youve contemplated a lot of these things and worked on yourself etc. The majority of women who would be attractive physically to most guys on the forum or otherwise, are likely to be young, not as mature, probably not contemplated or worked on themselves. Especially if they are really attractive as theres not much incentive to do so, what these means is in practice when guys go out, even if theyre not narcissistic or sociopathic, they notice that if they play with these traits, they will get more success with good looking girls, it can also work with more mature girls, but in which case you can just switch up your approach anyway. 

Relationship wise, its almost essentially to have the raw but tamed aspect, otherwise there will be problems, but initially im the fuck persona is much more successful. Having said that if you are truly integrated and a high value male you will be at the highest level of attractiveness if its authentic. Problem is thats a lot of work lol, so most, even by definition wont be able to reach those levels. 

That’s the issue. Men are too influenced by women’s assessments of them.

This creates a cap, where men don’t develop themselves past a certain point because they are codependent upon the average women to reflect their worth back to them.

And so, their muses aren’t inspiring them to higher ideals but are acting a delimiting factor for personal growth.

But I can tell you that this attraction to men like I described started at age 20. Lots of very young women are tuned in to these qualities. 

[integral]

A friend growing up was one of does standard alpha-male stereotypes. Big body, big muscle, dumb. He once told me, "I don't look at women because i don't want to give them the satisfaction, they don't deserve it". He embodied what women find attractive and it worked. Women would throw them selves at him. Of course he was an asehole.  

Edited April 29, 2021 by integral

[Harlen Kelly]

@Emerald You make too many inferences from what people say which is just pure projection and delusion. Don't make assumptions or extrapolations unless it is explicitly stated. 

Leo, believe it or not, is advocating for exactly what you just described. Why can you not see this? Because your mind automatically assigns qualities and makes assumptions about the other person's point of view. 

At one point you assumed I was glorifying untamed masculinity when I clearly was making descriptive arguments, not prescriptive ones.  Why? Because you immediately and unconsciously extrapolated negative assumptions about my argument. Notice that pattern. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Harlen Kelly]

@integral If you ask those women that threw themselves at him if they liked assholes, they would say no. It's pure delusion and unconsciousness. 

[Peter Miklis]

@integral I feel like there's some guys who are gonna take you literaly and be like "alright, I'm just gonna lift weights and be a dick. Hey bitch, what's up?"?

[Harlen Kelly]

@Peter Miklis In all fairness, doing that (even though it is not remotely the best strategy) would work better than what the typical clueless nice guy does. She at least will have a reaction to the ''Hey bitch, what's up?'', but she won't even notice the stereotypical nice guy or would find him repulsive. 

[Peter Miklis]

@Harlen Kelly True. But then again, literaly any approach is better than nice guy approach.

[integral]

@Peter Miklis lol he wouldn't go that far but he would have the mind set "she's lucky i'm even talking to her" and so everything that followed was perfect pick up. They never stood a chance. 

When a man takes a women from behind, from his perspective there is a animalismt lusting to take her, to dominate her. The "true" attraction a women has for a man is his inner lust to fuck her. That's the foundation that everything else is built on. Nice guys don't have this foundation, so they walk around communicating non of this. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by integral

[Bando]

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

That’s the issue. Men are too influenced by women’s assessments of them.

This creates a cap, where men don’t develop themselves past a certain point because they are codependent upon the average women to reflect their worth back to them.

This is a good insight I definitely noticed this in myself as I started to clean up my dating strategy. In my earlier stages of Pick up I remember getting as muscular as possible and playing up the "fuck boy" persona and it worked so well. A small part of me resented women for responding so well to these traits but as i kept smashing out more and more chicks and started running toxic relationships, I released if i were to go down this road I would end up "hating" women.

This forced me to raise my standard and heal my inner traumas and screen hard for chicks who didn't meet my values. I can literally feel the attraction zip out from me when a hot chicks speaks like an airhead. Dating is much more enjoyable when you can connect with people on "higher values" you start seeing them more as a human being than a notch count.

[Shin]

17 minutes ago, Peter Miklis said:

@Harlen Kelly True. But then again, literaly any approach is better than nice guy approach.

Literally anything is better that having no personality

[Peter Miklis]

16 minutes ago, integral said:

The "true" attraction a women has for a man is his inner lust to fuck her

Well, I wouldn't say that's foundation. True foundation is survival value you can provide to her life. Women don't wanna be fucked by any man, they wanna be fucked by high value guy.

[Consept]

Just thought id throw this in, ties in to a lot of the issues raised in this thread -

 

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

@Emerald You make too many inferences from what people say which is just pure projection and delusion. Don't make assumptions or extrapolations unless it is explicitly stated. 

Leo, believe it or not, is advocating for exactly what you just described. Why can you not see this? Because your mind automatically assigns qualities and makes assumptions about the other person's point of view. 

At one point you assumed I was glorifying untamed masculinity when I clearly was making descriptive arguments, not prescriptive ones.  Why? Because you immediately and unconsciously extrapolated negative assumptions about my argument. Notice that pattern. 

@Leo Gura and I don’t have the same POV on this matter even if we share many crossover views. And we both explicitly state our points of contention with the other’s POV. Go read the conversation. There are several very important divergences in our claims.

Though it seems that people are missing the nuances and believe we’re saying the same thing a different way. But we’re not.

Also when you say “This is what women like.” to a group of men, it may not be consciously prescriptive... but the effects will be prescriptive.

So, portraying an incomplete or distorted view of feminine sexual attraction dynamics, will glorify to men whichever traits are indicated. And that’s true even if you don’t intend it. And I do know that’s not your intention.

So, even making the claim (as Leo did) that aggression, narcissism, and sociopathy are a sign of strength and thus inherently attractive to women, is to glorify and prescribe it. This is especially true because he has an audience of impressionable men who will try to emulate that behavior... without the lion tamer to channel the aggression into positive expression.

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Bando said:

This is a good insight I definitely noticed this in myself as I started to clean up my dating strategy. In my earlier stages of Pick up I remember getting as muscular as possible and playing up the "fuck boy" persona and it worked so well. A small part of me resented women for responding so well to these traits but as i kept smashing out more and more chicks and started running toxic relationships, I released if i were to go down this road I would end up "hating" women.

This forced me to raise my standard and heal my inner traumas and screen hard for chicks who didn't meet my values. I can literally feel the attraction zip out from me when a hot chicks speaks like an airhead. Dating is much more enjoyable when you can connect with people on "higher values" you start seeing them more as a human being than a notch count.

Awesome! I think when a man gets over the fear of women’s judgment and codependency on women’s POV, then this leads him into a space where he can grow himself into a more exalted version of himself.

If there is a fear of women, it tends to lead to lots of dysfunction and misogyny. But once the fear of judgment and the projection of the “pedestaled judging woman” onto women falls away, this enables a man to be a better person and by extension a much better lover.

[Emerald]

@Harlen Kelly Here is my response to an earlier poster that said Leo and I are saying the same thing...

No. He’s arguing that all women are attracted to aggression regardless of whether it’s expressed in healthy or unhealthy ways as a natural feminine instinct. And he’s also arguing that men with the capacity for violent behavior will have more narcissistic and sociopathic behaviors by default.

I’m saying that men who express aggression in dysfunctional narcissistic ways are repulsive not attractive. And that women who are attracted to these kinds of guys are dealing with trauma. And that it’s trauma and layers of dysfunction in herself that lead into this attraction. And that a healthy woman will be repulsed by a barbaric man who has no self-control as it is weak behavior (though Leo sees this as strong behavior).

Also, I’m saying that men with the capacity for aggression and violence aren’t more narcissistic or sociopathic than a guy who lacks in that department. You can find plenty of men with the capacity for aggression/violence who have strong character. And you can find plenty of wimpy guys with weak character.