What is real ?

[Wilhelm44]

If consciousness imagines everything, but everything is also made out of consciousness, does this mean everything is real ?

[Mason Riggle]

recognize that it doesn't matter.. 

Are you 'really' typing this post on this forum, or does it just 'seem' that way? 

Does it matter which it is? 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Shin]

 

26 minutes ago, Tim Ho said:

It is like trying to explain someone who is dreaming that at night there is a real world when you wake up.

That'd be crazy, imagine if that was true !

[Moksha]

The question is not whether everything is real (which is true), but how everything is real. Ultimate reality is objectively real. It is timeless, changeless, and depthless. Relative reality is subjectively real. Spacetime and the cosmos are not absolute, but depend on the perspective of the perceiver. 

The ocean is real, as are the transient waves that endlessly arise from and return to it. Everything and every nothing is all still Consciousness.

[SoonHei]

2 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

If consciousness imagines everything, but everything is also made out of consciousness, does this mean everything is real ?

in the spiritual world, the word "real" is used to point to that which is permanent, unchanging 

when you say consciousness you are referring to the source and when you say everything you are referring to objects made from/out of that source

 

with that being said, we say that only consciousness is real = permanent = unchanging

see equation below for analogical comparison

@Wilhelm44

source = real / permanent  / unchanging                         AND               objects made out of source  =  unreal / impermanent / changing

consciousness = real / permanent  / unchanging             AND           everything = unreal / impermanent / changing

ocean = real / permanent  / unchanging                            AND           waves = unreal / impermanent / changing

sand = real / permanent  / unchanging                             AND            sandcastles = unreal / impermanent / changing

air = real / permanent  / unchanging                               AND               wind  = unreal / impermanent / changing

clay = real / permanent  / unchanging                             AND            objects made out of clay = unreal / impermanent / changing

Edited April 26, 2021 by SoonHei

[Godishere]

God is a mystery. That's why is just IS. The way we use imaginary is just a more accurate way of explaining reality, rather than a material existence. However, when you truly awaken, you will realize that it really is all fantasy/ hallucination and this will be the death of your identity. The reason we say it's Nothing is because it has no substance. Aka there is no material world, only an empty void of conciousness.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Godishere

[Nahm]

3 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

If consciousness imagines everything, but everything is also made out of consciousness, does this mean everything is real ?

No, it means it’s consciousness. 

? 

[snowyowl]

"consciousness imagines everything"

this implies consciousness imagines itself too, that's a real bootstrap! 

"everything is also made out of consciousness,"

So even consciousness is made of consciousness; there's nothing else to contrast and give relative meaning to the word. It's literally meaningless  needs to be experienced, not understood.

'Everything' is what turns this into such a transcendent question. The self-reference paradox pops us out of duality of consciousness vs things, imagination vs reality. 

[Wilhelm44]

Thank you for all the replies !  Much appreciation.  So much to contemplate 

[OceanRiver]

Your heart. You must follow your heart in the most dalai lama sense and then learn from what happens. The key is the learning. If you miss the learning that's why people associate following the heart with suffering. We can't grow from life properly otherwise, eventually all that compensatory stuff we develop by not doing so is what eventually ruins us. Look at confident dark hearts and you will find the cause for narcissism. They have their appeal sure, but it runs thin super quick.

[Wilhelm44]

@OceanRiver  So true.

[Breakingthewall]

everything is real. the illusion is also real. the question is: what is true and what is false? the world of appearance is false in the sense that you are not a separate living entity. this is a magic trick as it is not true .it is literally a dream and hard to see as the mind is software that works all the time to create that trick

[Inliytened1]

On 4/26/2021 at 11:57 AM, Wilhelm44 said:

If consciousness imagines everything, but everything is also made out of consciousness, does this mean everything is real ?

There's no difference between real and imaginary.  It is a duality (which you are imagining/creating) that ultimately must collapse.

[Leo Gura]

Notice that try as you might you cannot ground "real" in anything.

[VeganAwake]

Seems to be permanently changing... you can have faith in that.

Some kind of boundless energy of sorts. But that's just a story within the boundlessness.

[Wilhelm44]

Thank you, all of this reminds me of a quote I once saw: There is no conflict between duality and nonduality.

[Dodo]

On 26/04/2021 at 5:57 PM, Wilhelm44 said:

If consciousness imagines everything, but everything is also made out of consciousness, does this mean everything is real ?

You are real as the presence that knows knowing.

The 3 states - Waking, dream and sleep are happening to that presence and they are all "unreal", only the knower of the 3 states is real and that knower must by definition be present in ALL 3 states not just in one, so you cant be any *thing* in any of the states. 

most view waking as more real and see dream and sleep as relative to the waking, but it is actually the 3 states that are all happening to your knowing in direct experience and therefore are equally unreal. You can verify that the knowing is real, its kind of one of the few things we can be certain of. Even if dream is unreal tonight, the me that knows it is real, even if I can't really point to it. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Dodo

[Wilhelm44]

@Dodo  Thank you.