"Eating less Meat won't save the Planet. Here's Why"

[lmfao]

Considering the economic and environmental angle here. Made me not take for granted the misleading statistics and arguments vegans give about why meat production is bad for the environment. 

Don't know how true the stuff in this video is, my gut is 50/50. 50% bullshit 

Video starts off by referencing the idea that beef has a high water footprint as being a myth, "94%" of the water coming from rainfall. 

Then goes on to address the talking point of growing crops to feed humans instead of feeding cattle, and so on. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by lmfao

[Hello from Russia]

Feeding them leftovers from a beer production, are you kidding?? No wonder I feel like shit after eating meat from a massmarket

Edited April 26, 2021 by Hello from Russia

[Roy]

The Olympic level mental gymnastics people will go through to push off and avoid taking any responsibility is staggering.

 

[Lyubov]

51 minutes ago, Roy said:

The Olympic level mental gymnastics people will go through to push off and avoid taking any responsibility is staggering.

 

They will try to gaslight like hell along the way cause they know they re completely full of shit (this video) and need all the defensive mechanisms to hold all that shit down

Edited April 26, 2021 by Lyubov

[soos_mite_ah]

What I understand is that individual efforts like eating less meat, going zero waste, thrifting etc. often gives individuals a sense of control in that they can control their choices to reflect their ethics accordingly. But if we're going to be really honest, in order to deal with climate change, we need to put pressure on large corporations since they account for a very sizable chunk of the pollution and carbon emissions. Regular people aren't the ones at blame here and putting the blame on regular people distracts us from the larger systemic issues. 

[CultivateLove]

44 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

They will try to gaslight like hell along the way cause they know they re completely full of shit (this video) and need all the defensive mechanisms to hold all that shit down

Wow, I am truly impressed by your calm, rational, non-biased, non-emotional analysis of the video, its content, and the producers' intentions! 

Edited April 26, 2021 by CultivateLove

[Opo]

59 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Also, the land that he's talking about that cannot be used to grow plants, is not better used by putting animals on it. We shouldn't do anything with it. Just rewild and reforest it.

That would be the environmentally friendly thing to do.

Why? 

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

To me it almost seems that this whole video is a defensive mechanism, defending the status quo from something better and morally superior. 

I got the same feeling but I still learned a few things so don't automatically dismiss it. I'm getting the same feeling from you just less and for the other side. 

Maybe instead of "better" and "superior" use developed or matured. It sounds better and is more accurate. 

[intotheblack]

[Lyubov]

2 hours ago, CultivateLove said:

Wow, I am truly impressed by your calm, rational, non-biased, non-emotional analysis of the video, its content, and the producers' intentions! 

you gotta draw the line somewhere when it comes to open discourse or you're gonna end up wasting your time stooping to the level of cable news arguing with any old moron that's able to grab the mic. sometimes you gotta call hot garbage takes what they are, hot garbage takes, even if they manage to occasionally and vaguely make an okay point once in a blue moon.

[Opo]

47 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

We need to rebuild our soils and sequester carbon, as the science continues to show, the best way to do this is to reclaim land that is used for animal farming and re-wild, reforest and restore the habitats, ecosystems and landscapes that have been destroyed for livestock production. 

Yea I agree with that. 

But I don't think that those places that can't grow food for us can grow a forrest. 

So I don't see a problem with goats eating grass and weeds there. 

50 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

If someone has actually done the research and still believes that meat consumption is not a huge global problem and that it needs to be massively reduced

Do you think lab grown meat will solve this? 

51 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

However, I would argue that choosing not to needlessly exploit and kill animals for products we don't really need is, in fact, morally "superior" to doing exactly that, just like not raping is morally superior to raping, whether people like to admit that or not...

Yea, just don't say that to the average meat-eater. 

[Leo Gura]

It won't save the planet because the planet is already safe. 

The point is to save the animals. If you care about that sorta thing.

[Opo]

I think that your motivations are the same but you use different words to express it. 

I have watched 6 hours of Booksmarts and have now become a master rhetorician. ?

[abundance]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

It won't save the planet because the planet is already safe. 

The point is to save the animals. If you care about that sorta thing.

Saving animals as in us too, right?

 

[Villager Albert]

This guy is starting to move from orange to green. I went through the same thing in the past where I was trying to hold on to orange by demonizing veganism.

I feel like the way we can help him evolve is not by judging him and trying to argue with his opinions. His mind is made up right now and the best way to help him is with love.

If I didn't become more loving, I'd never become a vegan. When I wasn't a vegan, most vegans were actually holding me back from becoming a vegan.

[lmfao]

9 hours ago, Hello from Russia said:

Feeding them leftovers from a beer production, are you kidding?? No wonder I feel like shit after eating meat from a massmarket

@Hello from Russia Hahaha. I don't know what exactly they're eating there, but at least cattle can eat leftovers or crops that are inedible to humans, and then we eat them. But if you feed them shit it makes sense they wouldn't be very healthy for us.

8 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

What I understand is that individual efforts like eating less meat, going zero waste, thrifting etc. often gives individuals a sense of control in that they can control their choices to reflect their ethics accordingly. But if we're going to be really honest, in order to deal with climate change, we need to put pressure on large corporations since they account for a very sizable chunk of the pollution and carbon emissions. Regular people aren't the ones at blame here and putting the blame on regular people distracts us from the larger systemic issues. 

@soos_mite_ah In regards to your ethics point, yeah this video didn't address that and the ethics can be different from considering economics and environmental (although some people will argue they happen to fall on the same side, conveniently so perhaps). Ethics about is it right to kill animals for food, etc. 

And yeah, it's obvs a systemic thing to change from a government perspective. 

If veganism is your ideal and you're into politics heavily, you still have to admit how far away your ideals are from being actualised in the world. When you consider all countries and societies, the biological and psychological history of mankind eating meat. 

But what you do have is control over yourself, and that's the only thing that matters. 

 

When having these discussions, I think the facts of economics or environmentalism don't matter. Not that they shouldn't matter, but describing what's actually animating people. It's all just representations and dialogues of ethics. The world and all speech being everyone talking to their own projections

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It won't save the planet because the planet is already safe. 

The point is to save the animals. If you care about that sorta thing.

Lmaoooo you might be right tbh 

Edited April 26, 2021 by lmfao

[WaveInTheOcean]

So he's talking to ONE professor who works for the livestock industry. I stopped watching from there.

Stupidity and bias has no limits lol.

Edited April 26, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[DocWatts]

9 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

What I understand is that individual efforts like eating less meat, going zero waste, thrifting etc. often gives individuals a sense of control in that they can control their choices to reflect their ethics accordingly. But if we're going to be really honest, in order to deal with climate change, we need to put pressure on large corporations since they account for a very sizable chunk of the pollution and carbon emissions. Regular people aren't the ones at blame here and putting the blame on regular people distracts us from the larger systemic issues. 

This ^^^

While people should be encouraged to adopt more healthy and sustainable diets (which include much lower levels of meat consumption), placing the burden of climate change on individuals as a matter of 'consumer choice' distracts from the systemic nature of the problem.

It also shifts the burden of responsibly away from the organizations that are contributing most to the problem.

The US Military being an excellent case study of this, as it's one of the largest polluters on the planet. If the US military were a country, it would be the 47th largest emitter of greenhouse gases in the world.

And that's leaving aside the enormous disinformation campaign enacted by the private fossil fuel industry that successfully misled the public and delayed action on climate change; something that will be looked back at as a crime against humanity.

Edited April 26, 2021 by DocWatts

[Tim R]

The video is pretty misleading. Especially the part with the methane, he set up a straw man (and a pretty bad one at that).. Yes, carbon is not the problem, methane is the problem, so even if the amount of carbon stays the same, the molecular compound in which it's bound doesn't. Whether it's bound as CO2 or CH4 is extremely important. 

Basically this whole video was like: "yeah, meat it pretty f*cking bad, but hey! look at this! look at that! these things are even worse!! so don't worry guys, let's keep eating meat because it's not the worst thing we can do"

[WaveInTheOcean]

Okay I saw it to the end.

Not that bad. Some good points. 

Yes, obviously the fossil fuils are the major issue (transport, energy, cement sector). And the food waste is a big issue too.

But still, beef is bad for the climate, he didn't prove it's not.

So eating less beef will help us save ourselves. Not the planet. But ourselves. Global warming is bad, mkay.

[Carl-Richard]

7:50 The crop byproducts argument is the equivalent of saying we have recycle stations so pollution isn't a problem. That and the numbers "2.8kg edible plants for 1kg meat" are complete red herrings, because the numbers are based on current crop usage and not the crop usage in an all-vegan world. An all-vegan world would use much fewer crops, so all the other numbers like crop byproducts wouldn't be represented in those numbers.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Carl-Richard