“I am pure awareness” is dualistic and relative

[BipolarGrowth]

The way I see many people use this phrase, they tend to treat pure awareness as a separate thing from the content of awareness. This is far from the mark from my experience and contemplation. 
 

Pure awareness, as I see it, is the complete fusion between anything you might initially (before significant awakening/s) call awareness/consciousness and anything you might initially call the content of awareness. In a dream, are you the dreamer (body & thoughts), the thing aware of the dream, OR the entire dream which includes the awareness of the dream? 

[SoonHei]

Silence is the language of God 

All else is poor translation

?

 

 

[VeganAwake]

42 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

In a dream, are you the dreamer (body & thoughts), the thing aware of the dream, OR the entire dream which includes the awareness of the dream? 

Neither!

The dreamer and that which is aware, is the same dream story character.

That's why reality is referred to as an illusion.

The experiencer is recognized to have never been. ❤

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

There are several excerpts about awareness and pure awareness in the Ridhwan Glossary.

Awareness and the Nonconceptual

Pure awareness is an aware ground, an aware medium that doesn’t know what it is aware of and doesn’t discern one thing from another. By nonconceptual I do not simply mean not mental, not constructed. I mean the barest minimum of sensitivity, the ground that is simply the capacity to be aware, to perceive. Therefore, by nonconceptual we mean non-cognitive. There is perception, but there is no knowing, no cognition of any kind. 

Diamond Heart Book Five, pg. 355

https://www.diamondapproach.org/glossary/refinery_phrases/awareness

 

Pure Awareness that is Not Aware of Itself

The Absolute is a pure awareness that is not aware of itself, but it is aware of anything that comes out of itself. The moment consciousness arises, the Absolute becomes aware of it as pure light, pure radiance. So you can be the Absolute being aware of the nonconceptual. Or you can lose the Absolute and become just the nonconceptual. You can be just the nonconceptual experiencing the nonconceptual, which you experience as just pure awareness without anything to know. Or you could be the nonconceptual and be aware of the Absolute. And then you know the Absolute. That is how we can talk about the Absolute and its absence of qualities. At any level of experience, you can perceive both the more superficial realms and the next deeper realm. Except if you go to the Absolute, there’s only one way to go, which is towards the more superficial. If you are in the personal mind, there’s also only one way to go, which is towards the deeper. The Absolute is the most fundamental, and the personal mind is the most superficial. 

Diamond Heart Book Four, pg. 346

https://www.diamondapproach.org/glossary/refinery_phrases/awareness-pure

 

[Osaid]

I think I did make that mistake before. There is a state of consciousness which could be referred to as "pure consciousness", and it can be felt throughout all of experience, although identifying with that specifically isn't too accurate.

[BipolarGrowth]

2 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Neither!

The dreamer and that which is aware, is the same dream story character.

That's why reality is referred to as an illusion.

The experiencer is recognized to have never been. ❤

 

Exactly. But what is the only thing illusion can exist within? Truth. What is the Source of illusion? What is. God. Self. Existence. It’s like a mother and a fetus. Is the creation separate from the creator? Sure! You can conceptualize it that way, but there is also a fundamental and undeniable connection between the two. Without mental definitions, what separates them? Without mental definitions, what separates you from Truth or what is. Yes, I’m talking about even the character that has never been yet we are still capable of discussing it. We talk about an illusion as if it is something that isn’t real, but for it to even be in discussion, it must exist on some level. The illusion is real, but that does not mean it is always interpreted in ways that point to what is real. Ironically, we are having a discussion in an illusion where we are talking about what the lack of illusion is as if we have experienced it or somehow know what we are talking about. This is stating that somehow Truth was discovered through something which is somehow not also Truth or separate from Truth. It’s like the species/Individual that discovered God/Source/Truth/Pure Awareness/Nothingness/No experiencer which creates everything and entirely supports the existence of the character is somehow different from the character. It’s a tad absurd I would say. You are Everything. There are no divisions. All is One. 

[Tim R]

3 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Pure awareness, as I see it, is the complete fusion between anything you might initially (before significant awakening/s) call awareness/consciousness and anything you might initially call the content of awareness

Yes 

The image in the mirror is the pure mirror "plus" its content. "Pure awareness" and "content of awareness" are the same, appearing to be different. But they are always and only the mirror. This awareness needs a reflection to "see itself". Which is why "ego", as a state of self-reflection is actually crucial for becoming aware of the fact that you are the mirror. 

[TheSelf]

@BipolarGrowth 

5 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

The way I see many people use this phrase, they tend to treat pure awareness as a separate thing from the content of awareness.

It's the first stage. Basically realizing that you are aware.

There's nothing wrong about stucking at this stage, basically you still haven't yet come to the next stage to realize that awareness is all that there is. It takes time.

But before that, first you gotta realize that you are aware.

For some people even realizing this takes years or decades.

And it's a good and liberating position to be at, and in some traditions they don't go beyond this stage.

Of course realization of you being aware and inseparable relationship between awareness and the content of awareness all together is also possible. It's not a linear process and doesn't have to be.

Edited April 26, 2021 by m0hsen

[Zigzag Idiot]

Excuse me for disagreeing with nearly everyone on just about everything mentioned here.

Doesn’t awareness and the inseparable content of awareness  = monkey mind, basically? Or maybe being identified with or unable to detach from unconstrained imagination?

 A product or result of Centering prayer meditation as well as Zazen for many practitioners is nonconceptual awareness or as it’s sometimes called objectless awareness.

What about awareness with or without being?
I’ve experienced inner quiet simultaneously with a felt sense of being or presence but I wouldn’t call it a state of pure awareness although awareness was present.

Pure awareness without concepts or beingness would be - the lights are on but nobody’s home,,,? I’ve experienced that before, also.

[Eternal Unity]

No no man you're so close! ?

That is The Truth!

[BipolarGrowth]

27 minutes ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

Excuse me for disagreeing with nearly everyone on just about everything mentioned here.

Doesn’t awareness and the inseparable content of awareness  = monkey mind, basically? Or maybe being identified with or unable to detach from unconstrained imagination?

 A product or result of Centering prayer meditation as well as Zazen for many practitioners is nonconceptual awareness or as it’s sometimes called objectless awareness.

What about awareness with or without being?
I’ve experienced inner quiet simultaneously with a felt sense of being or presence but I wouldn’t call it a state of pure awareness although awareness was present.

Pure awareness without concepts or beingness would be - the lights are on but nobody’s home,,,? I’ve experienced that before, also.

The thing is even if your conclusion is that ultimately awareness is the basis of everything and some absolute void was experienced, the idea that this pure awareness is separate from this less fundamental thing — the content of awareness — is just an idea. Yes, pure awareness is there! It is the constant, but once this constant is experienced directly, it’s clear that this is all there is. The issue is that as it is all there is, it must also be the very thing which it was necessary to drop to experience it. It must be everything it was at first thought to be different from. It is all One ultimately. 
 

In true nonconceptual awareness, the duality between awareness and the content of awareness collapses. The collapse shows that there always was just One thing — the Self, You, Truth. 

[Zigzag Idiot]

Thank you for this kind of engaging which helps stretch my frame of reference and ability to discriminate and sometimes but not always articulate.  ?✌️I’ve maybe crawfished some in order to not reach conclusions.
I need to ponder some more whether what’s being pointed to is prior or beyond and the experience of it beyond or before concepts and its relation to the nous and more stuff I can’t put into words at the moment.

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Zigzag Idiot

[VeganAwake]

8 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

You are Everything. There are no divisions. All is One. 

Notice the 'sense of self' always needs an identity.(oh I'm not the small self so 'I' must be everything)

There is no separation, but not because 'you' are everything... it's because there was never a 'you' to be separate in the first place.

You or duality are words pointing to an experience that seems real but is ultimately lacking in reality(hence why it's called an illusion) 

 

This communication is hopeless and not logical by any means. The more it's sought after, the more it subtly suggests/reinforces the idea that there is an individual that can one day(with enough diligent practice of course) understand IT and put 'itself' in a better position in the future(hamster wheel effect)

But THIS is already Liberation because the individual with all of its needs to know(feels like straight jacket) was never real to begin with. ❤

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by VeganAwake

[Someone here]

 

@BipolarGrowth I agree. There is not a personal self experiencing anything, it's just concepts, beliefs, physical sensations floating around.
It floats around so seamlessly that it is really convincing that YOU exist, but in reality there is no entity there, it's just a sum of all this that gives you this illusion ...so there is no perception, awareness, or whatever you wanna call it. Thats duality. It's just being 

[mandyjw]

There's nothing pure about it but it is also child-like in-no-sense. 

[BipolarGrowth]

17 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Notice the 'sense of self' always needs an identity.(oh I'm not the small self so 'I' must be everything)

There is no separation, but not because 'you' are everything... it's because there was never a 'you' to be separate in the first place.

You or duality are words pointing to an experience that seems real but is ultimately lacking in reality(hence why it's called an illusion) 

 

This communication is hopeless and not logical by any means. The more it's sought after, the more it subtly suggests/reinforces the idea that there is an individual that can one day(with enough diligent practice of course) understand IT and put 'itself' in a better position in the future(hamster wheel effect)

But THIS is already Liberation because the individual with all of its needs to know(feels like straight jacket) was never real to begin with. ❤

 

 

When this false you is recognized for what it is, you see that it is illusory. There still happens to be existence without this illusory self. Say there’s a Self or no-self, it doesn’t matter. It’s a collapse of the barrier at the end of the day. The same thing is the case whether you frame it one way in words or another way. I am God and there is no self are ultimately pointing in a very similar direction just with possibly a few different facets at the forefront for one versus the other. If you can’t see that, we don’t share enough similar direct experiences. 

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Say there’s a Self or no-self, it doesn’t matter. It’s a collapse of the barrier at the end of the day. 

Love that ?

And the so-called collapse is the recognition that there was never anything separate to begin with.....its an un-happening sort of speak.

Freedom is the end of concepts. ❤

 

[BipolarGrowth]

10 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Love that ?

And the so-called collapse is the recognition that there was never anything separate to begin with.....its an un-happening sort of speak.

Freedom is the end of concepts. ❤

 

Yes, it’s an un-happening of course, but it still happens ? 
 

Freedom isn’t just the end of concepts necessarily. That still points to there being something wrong with concepts. After awakening, you can use a hammer (ego) without believing you’re the hammer. You need to be free from concepts to see what that experience is trying to show you before you can have full realization. 

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Yes, it’s an un-happening of course, but it still happens ? 
 

yes, and if you want to call the end of something that was never real a happening go right ahead, there's nothing right or wrong with it. 

Freedom isn’t just the end of concepts necessarily. That still points to there being something wrong with concepts.

Exactly, because it wouldn't be true freedom if there was still a concept that concepts could be right or wrong. That's why this is already freedom ❤

After awakening, you can use a hammer (ego) without believing you’re the hammer.

Yes it's referred to as the Divine game of Lila(dancing or dabbling back in duality for entertainment) with an underlying inner recognition that it's just a show.

You need to be free from concepts to see what that experience is trying to show you before you can have full realization.

But there was never a 'YOU' that was bound. Just concepts being identified with as 'YOUR' concepts. And believing an experience has something to show you before you can have full realization, is simply just another concept.

The ego or sense of self is never satisfied.(hamster wheel effect)

"the ego says seek but do not find"

- A Course in Miracles

 

[Dodo]

On 26/04/2021 at 3:41 AM, BipolarGrowth said:

The way I see many people use this phrase, they tend to treat pure awareness as a separate thing from the content of awareness. This is far from the mark from my experience and contemplation. 
 

Pure awareness, as I see it, is the complete fusion between anything you might initially (before significant awakening/s) call awareness/consciousness and anything you might initially call the content of awareness. In a dream, are you the dreamer (body & thoughts), the thing aware of the dream, OR the entire dream which includes the awareness of the dream? 

exactly this dream analysis is a very great contemplative tool and a way to suggest to someone/yourself that even if it feels like you are the body, might not be so certain... I mean look at your dream last night! Very nice observation, I love using dreams for contemplations like these