Drug Psychosis, or Merging with the Godhead?

[OneHandClap]

Hello all, this is my first post here, despite my active watching of Leo's videos and browsing here.

I am a meditator and general Tibetan Buddhist/Dzogchen enthusiast who has practiced for several years now, mostly following a profound LSD trip that triggered a no-self experience. I had experimented with psychedelics for several years, but spent the last year or so doing mostly sober contemplation.

Well, as luck (?) would have it, I stumbled across DXM. I am a drug nerd who takes comfort in safety and knowledge of what I'm taking, so I built my way up to a 720mg DXM trip a few weeks ago. I decided yesterday to take one last look at the void before moving on to full sobriety. And what an experience it turned out to be.

The actual DXM peak (experienced on ~430mg of DXM) was fun but uneventful. Things got weird, however, when I smoked a joint later that night with my wife. I was in good spirits, and we decided to watch Survivor as I was in the post-peak phase. I dunno why, but Survivor, man. Midway through a scene, I felt something familiar... but off.

This experience had almost identically occurred several years ago without the same combo of substances (at the time, it was another LSD trip with two bowls of weed). Essentially, I got fixated on the koan of "one hand clapping." I realized I could not experience enlightenment or awakening - I had to leave behind all sense of subject to "merge with" the object.

I had this incredible rush of... energy... essentially telling me that the universe was constantly trying to get back to "it." No other word - just "it." An indescribable and subtle thing, almost like a joke. So I focused, or rather relaxed into, "it." I felt myself become the entire field of perception and mental activity, only to continue sinking deeper.. and deeper. I closed my eyes. I had the sudden feeling that I had always just been "it," and that my human existence was just a temporary distraction that I had dreamed up to escape the reality of being "one," which was a realm without any divide, and therefore no experience. I sensed that I had been here thousands, perhaps millions of times before, each time getting close... but not to "it." The untouchable. The unknowable. The beyond.

The TV scene seemed to stretch forever in the background. Of course, by this point, I was fully convinced I had dreamed it all up—Survivor, my wife, my house, everything. I had been making a gigantic stage upon which to unveil the punchline of an eternal joke. My wife did not speak, nor did any of the cast members. This seemed to stretch on an impossible length of time. All I heard was tribal music (from the show, naturally), and the primordial "om" that we associate with "ascension." "I" was merging back with myself and ending phenomenal perception. I have never taken DMT, but from what I have heard and seen via replications, the experience was rather similar—a fractal "tunnel" stretching out before me, all emanating from a central point directly ahead.

So, as this is happening, I begin to have bouncing echoes of thoughts that no longer belong to me. "Is this right?" "Is this real?" "Is this happening?" Each thought was accompanied by feedback from my environment - the TV show seemed to be sending messages such as cast members saying, "This is intense," "Go deeper," etc. Very, very bizarre. Every time I felt myself about to merge, I had a sudden thought such as "I can't leave my wife and family...," and I felt myself being pulled back out and into the realm of phenomena. There was subsequently a great rush of fear, and I could suddenly sense my heart hammering in my ribs. I was half-convinced I would die on the couch at that moment.

Anyhow, I eventually slipped out of the tunnel experience and back into "normal perception," but had the sense that if I'd just kept my attention on the experience, I would have fallen into permanent "merging." I jotted down some notes that more or less said "It's like trying to describe a room you cannot remember the inside of." I also wrote things such as "Awaken others slowly from the dream," "We have always been trying to BE IT, RETURN TO OURSELF."

I don't know what, if anything, to make of this experience. But I am certain that if that is my/our true nature, I will enter it peacefully, not through drugs.

Edited April 25, 2021 by OneHandClap

[Leo Gura]

47 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

But I am certain that if that is my/our true nature, I will enter it peacefully, not through drugs.

They are not mutually exclusive.

Do it peacefully through drugs

[OneHandClap]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They are not mutually exclusive.

Do it peacefully through drugs

Hey Leo, fancy finding you here! Cheers for the reply. I've got about 50 LSD trips under my belt, so I don't think I will ever fully release substances. Just meant it more as, I'm looking to deepen my understanding and center it without 'tools" for a bit  Could you answer two quick questions?

1. Was this a legitimate experience of "the godhead" that resonates with you?

2. Does the sense of loneliness/existential fear subside? Part of my reticence to release into the experience was due to a belief that if I deconstructed reality completely, I would be bored or simply drifting in a vast "nothing" for eternity - it seemed I had to release back into conventional experience at some point, because I could not conceive of anything else. 

(Edit) And as a further number 3... Is that all there is?

Again, this is the second time I have experienced such a short-lived and frankly terrifying "approach to eternity" moment. Do I go on living in the phenomenal world, trying to embody peace and love and all my other bottom-line values? Do I return to the experience and meld into it, knowing there may be nothing past it? I am sure you also struggle with this conundrum. I'm a big fan of Peter Ralston's work and subscribe to the idea that I do have ultimate freedom... but is this truly the bottom of the barrel? Or are there deeper, more unified and loving states of consciousness beyond it to embody in "the realm of samsara"?
 

Edited April 25, 2021 by OneHandClap

[Heart of Space]

DXM is a terrible substance.  You seem a  it overzealous with your drug use.

[ajasatya]

What's there to be merged?

[OneHandClap]

1 hour ago, ajasatya said:

What's there to be merged?

Good question. Something to contemplate. 

 

1 hour ago, Heart of Space said:

DXM is a terrible substance.  You seem a  it overzealous with your drug use.

You are correct; I will not be using it for consciousness work going forward. And I also agree that the use pattern has been reckless as of late. Hence why I added I'm more intent on practicing sober henceforth. This experience was a bit like my ego and all its fantasies of enlightenment being smashed by a hammer. Take care, friend

[Nahm]

Creating / believing dualities and conundrums and expecting there to be answers & solutions is like throwing pennies down a wishing well and waiting for something to come back up. Solving just isn’t how the creating well works. The well has nothing to solve. Leave that in meditation, vs taking those conditions on your trips to the unconditional. Psychedelics are great, but they are still an appearance of mind. You can experience the appearance indeed and it can be most helpful for sure, but you can also address mind directly. 

In a trip, and ‘otherwise’, you can not experience the loss, of what you do not believe is yours. Namely, love. 

If love is not a possession or product of any duality, what could ever be said to be lost?

And then, what is “fear”?

[Heart of Space]

9 hours ago, OneHandClap said:

You are correct; I will not be using it for consciousness work going forward. And I also agree that the use pattern has been reckless as of late. Hence why I added I'm more intent on practicing sober henceforth. This experience was a bit like my ego and all its fantasies of enlightenment being smashed by a hammer. Take care, friend

You take care as well.  Good luck with your practice.

[Dodo]

@OneHandClap very interesting report. I would advise you to experiment with fasting, praying and running for a genuine nondrug induced experience/spiritual practice

[OneHandClap]

13 hours ago, Nahm said:

Creating / believing dualities and conundrums and expecting there to be answers & solutions is like throwing pennies down a wishing well and waiting for something to come back up. Solving just isn’t how the creating well works. The well has nothing to solve. Leave that in meditation, vs taking those conditions on your trips to the unconditional. Psychedelics are great, but they are still an appearance of mind. You can experience the appearance indeed and it can be most helpful for sure, but you can also address mind directly. 

In a trip, and ‘otherwise’, you can not experience the loss, of what you do not believe is yours. Namely, love. 

If love is not a possession or product of any duality, what could ever be said to be lost?

And then, what is “fear”?

Can you elaborate a bit upon what you mean with the "loss of love" aspect? Are you implying love is the ground of our being, and therefore we cannot truly be deprived of it?

6 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

You take care as well.  Good luck with your practice.

Thank you for your kind words!

3 hours ago, Dodo said:

@OneHandClap very interesting report. I would advise you to experiment with fasting, praying and running for a genuine nondrug induced experience/spiritual practice

This is a good idea. I did fasting years ago and would like to return to it. Do you have a type of prayer that works best for you? 



As a general update, I have been contemplating the experience deeply the past two days. I've realized my initial fear had several illogical bases behind it. One of these lapses in logic was believing I was a "being." I understand that God cannot be conceived of in ordinary terms of one/many. The second logical fallacy was believing that I was the only being, or falling into solipsism. Once again, it assumes there is one vs many. Clearly I have a lot to contemplate and clarify regarding the ground of being, and especially love. One pleasant aftereffect of this experience has been a renewed sense of devotion to loved ones.

I realized that if God has manifested everything, there is a clear and loving reason why there would be multiple beings. Every being is their own god, in a sense, learning to aspire to the highest good of capital-G God. This concept, although it is just a concept, filled me with a rush of unconditional love last night. The nature of God is not one, nor many lonely beings. It is beyond both ideas. 

Peace be with all of you.

[Nahm]

7 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

Can you elaborate a bit upon what you mean with the "loss of love" aspect? Are you implying love is the ground of our being, and therefore we cannot truly be deprived of it?

Yes, exactly. Even more so, love is being, love = being (vs ‘the ground of’), two words pointing to one actuality. The illusion is that there is a separate self which loves, or is loved. The confusion is due to the duality of language. As example, “I love my guitar”. That I, the guitar, and the experience therein, is love. People ‘fall in love’. Does gravity? 

[OneHandClap]

Just now, Nahm said:

Yes, exactly. Even more so, love is being (vs the ground of). The illusion is that there is a separate self which loves, or is loved. The confusion is due to the duality of language. As example, “I love my guitar”. That I, the guitar, and the experience therein, is love. 

Thank you for clarifying. This is a deep teaching I am still grappling with. The experience I had, in retrospect, was likely born out of a sense of fear regarding loneliness and the "Other." I had been neglecting love for too long in favor of peak experiences and spiritual materialism. If nothing else, I've realized that whatever exists is fundamentally good. Love would not trap beings in their own solipsistic prisons and taunt them with ideas of "ascension." Love seems to be the basis for connection and unity... the very reason that oneness coexists with multiplicity. 

[Nahm]

@OneHandClap

If I asked if that fear feels great or not great, you’d say not great. If I asked if that thought feels great or not great, you’d say not great. 

There is a pointing occurring there, to, that which is Great, the Goodness that Is. 

The confusion then would be the claim that fear is a feeling. 

The truth would therefore have to be that fear is a thought, which does not resonate with feeling, which is unconditional love. 

The conditions of fear, alone, loneliness, and other... are thoughts... not resonating with the very love. 

[OneHandClap]

4 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@OneHandClap

If I asked if that fear feels great or not great, you’d say not great. If I asked if that thought feels great or not great, you’d say not great. 

There is a pointing occurring there, to, that which is Great, the Goodness that Is. 

The confusion then would be the claim that fear is a feeling. 

The truth would therefore have to be that fear is a thought, which does not resonate with feeling, which is unconditional love. 

The conditions of fear, alone, loneliness, and other... are thoughts... not resonating with the very love. 

Very deep, but very basic. Thank you for this pointing. In short, I should be working to watch the mind without believing its narrative? I presume that through this careful contemplation, Love (the ground, God, etc.) will make itself apparent naturally. 

[Nahm]

17 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

Very deep, but very basic.

That. Is. It.

Crazy deep, unthinkably basic, literally One singularity. 

Here is the greatest teacher of nonduality on earth today... 

Quote

 I should be working to watch the mind without believing its narrative? I presume that through this careful contemplation, Love (the ground, God, etc.) will make itself apparent naturally. 

“ I “ is a thought. 

“ the mind “ is a thought. 

This is the appearance. 

It’s this. (Perception)

The illusion is that there is a separate self, from believing thoughts like “I”, “me”, “my”, “mine”, etc. 

Love is what’s appearing as “the thoughts”. 

Love appears as the thought “ I “ and believes it. How funny is this? 

 

(Talking about the bassist, in case that wasn’t obvious)

Hell of a user name btw. ? 

[OneHandClap]

14 minutes ago, Nahm said:

That. Is. It.

Crazy deep, unthinkably basic, literally One singularity. 

Here is the greatest teacher of nonduality on earth today... 

“ I “ is a thought. 

“ the mind “ is a thought. 

This is the appearance. 

It’s this. (Perception)

The illusion is that there is a separate self, from believing thoughts like “I”, “me”, “my”, “mine”, etc. 

Love is what’s appearing as “the thoughts”. 

Love appears as the thought “ I “ and believes it. How funny is this? 

 

(Talking about the bassist, in case that wasn’t obvious)

Hell of a user name btw. ? 

Haha, that guy is having the time of his life. "I" "love" "it."

Thank you very much for your pointing. Back to the ocean of Love that was never left

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, OneHandClap said:

 

This is a good idea. I did fasting years ago and would like to return to it. Do you have a type of prayer that works best for you? 

 

I would say the question is wrong because prayer is not supposed to be something rehearsed or like a tool/tactic, it should come from the heart, should be natural and organic, it kind of takes away from it if I told you a method that "works". Well I guess I did tell you the method From the heart and being honest. 

[OneHandClap]

12 minutes ago, Dodo said:

I would say the question is wrong because prayer is not supposed to be something rehearsed or like a tool/tactic, it should come from the heart, should be natural and organic, it kind of takes away from it if I told you a method that "works". Well I guess I did tell you the method From the heart and being honest. 

Thank you for your advice! You're right... it should be earnest and direct. Best wishes to you

[The0Self]

@OneHandClap DXM is quite dirty, but it (like anything) can certainly bring about a Godhead experience when combined with cannabis. Psychosis as well. It's especially powerful with cannabis -- more than pretty much anything else. I'd try to get some ketamine if you have a high affinity for dissociatives -- I too seem to get a ton of mileage with dissociatives, but combining them with psychedelics and weed is where they truly shine. Some of the states I've experienced from LSD are ridiculously lofty for humans, but when it's combined with ketamine, I seem to have accessed what I can only describe as "the arena," wherein like-minded-compound-beings of all sorts are allowing you to merge into them through shared ego death -- I feel like I have so much more to say about it but can't even begin. It's ineffable.

Edited April 26, 2021 by The0Self

[OneHandClap]

7 minutes ago, The0Self said:

@OneHandClap DXM is quite dirty, but it (like anything) can certainly bring about a Godhead experience when combined with cannabis. Psychosis as well. It's especially powerful with cannabis -- more than pretty much anything else. I'd try to get some ketamine if you have a high affinity for dissociatives -- I too seem to get a ton of mileage with dissociatives, but combining them with psychedelics and weed is where they truly shine. Some of the states I've experienced from LSD are ridiculously lofty for humans, but when it's combined with ketamine, I seem to have accessed what I can only describe as "the arena," wherein like-minded-compound-beings of all sorts are allowing you to merge into them through shared ego death -- I feel like I have so much more to say about it but can't even begin. It's ineffable.

Yes, I've heard similar sentiments from others. Sadly I moved a while back and no longer have the same connections for most of these substances. LSD induced a full-on, beautiful state of nonduality, but I have noticed that most dissos/psychs combined with cannabis produce strong psychotic mini-episodes that are prone to self-feedback loops and the creation of distorted narratives. Cannabis alone tends to make me rather anxious compared to harder drugs. Thanks for your input, friend!

EDIT: Regarding DXM, I did have much more pleasurable experiences early on without cannabis. I especially loved the vivid closed-eye visuals it produced. But overall, it's definitely less of a "clean high" than most things. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by OneHandClap