Is Enlightenment simply a self hypnosis?

[OneIntoOne]

@Reciprocality

3 minutes ago, Reciprocality said:

There is really nothing to question about it if in its essence in lies solely the perception of the perceiver of thoughts, but just like you we can all confuse this insight with the implications it has on forms thereafter. (philosophy)

This is a distinction i see very seldom expressed in the forum, Leo himself seem to even express them as synonymous at times.

So lets talk about it.

[BipolarGrowth]

I think the more important thing to ask is has this spiritual path been of value for you. The results should speak for themselves, but a strong ego can make it hard to believe what you’ve seen. 

[4201]

1 minute ago, OneIntoOne said:

@4201

Why cant you self hypnotize into stop believing thoughts? 

How is self hypnotization into stop believing thoughts different from stopping to believe thoughts? Let's say you start believing really hard that your hand is ugly. Everywhere you go, you hide your hand, scared that people see it and make fun of you. Now this obviously feels bad. Some people tell you this is not true, you should let go and stop believing. 

Are they self-hypnotizing into no longer believing their hand is ugly? It's silly from our POV because we don't believe the lie that our hand is ugly. But from the person that believes, it's like challenging their reality. If you challenge your reality you may start believing new bullshit and hypnotizing yourself. But if you don't believe anything you can't go wrong. Can you debunk me if I don't claim anything?

[The0Self]

1 minute ago, OneIntoOne said:

@Leo Gura

So keep hypnotizing until i get fully hypnotized? 

I just want to understand, i know deep down that i might be wrong, thats why i want to get to the bottom of it so i can move on.

We have to either defend or give you the answer. But there’s no one here to defend, and there is no answer that can be given, friend.

[erik8lrl]

@OneIntoOne In the absolute sense, everything is imagined and pretended/self-created/"hypnotized." You are God pretending to be a being that thinks enlightenment is just self-hypnosis, which in itself is self-hypnosis. It still doesn't give you any clarity in what self is and what hypnosis is. Enlightenment can be defined in many different ways, and it has many different degrees. But the definitive point for me is if you have had a direct experience in absolute source/love/nothingness and no longer have any doubt about what you are, after this point is liberation.

Now the only way for you to find if this is true is if you reach that point. Same as how for you to truly know that if enlightenment is just self-hypnotization, you would have to become enlightened first. The only way out is through. So keep going. Your ego is trying to trick you into stopping doing the work. It happens often on this path.     

[Reciprocality]

@OneIntoOne Lets talk of it? I brought the potential of it into the thread, do you have any thoughts on it? What would it mean that your gurus speaks on behalf of their own intellectual insights to say that those are the same as necessary insights to enlightenment and the enlightenment itself?

I have my thoughts on it, but given that hypnosis is here the hypothesis i rather let you yourself reflect on me bringing it forth. Then me from the get-go corrupting it for you.

Edited April 25, 2021 by Reciprocality

[The0Self]

1 minute ago, 4201 said:

Can you debunk me if I don't claim anything?

Exactly. Truly.

OP: Not that I’m saying you’re definitely trying to debunk anything. I’m taking you at your word that you just want the truth (or at least you think you do). I guess you could believe reality is hypnotized — it’d still just be what apparently happens — that never changes and I’m unsure how that could be argued against, but I suppose one could try.

[OneIntoOne]

@The0Self

12 minutes ago, The0Self said:

We have to either defend or give you the answer. But there’s no one here to defend, and there is no answer that can be given, friend.

Truth needs no defending. I'm only discussing it and trying to understand. So yes answers would be helpful.

[OneIntoOne]

15 minutes ago, 4201 said:

How is self hypnotization into stop believing thoughts different from stopping to believe thoughts? Let's say you start believing really hard that your hand is ugly. Everywhere you go, you hide your hand, scared that people see it and make fun of you. Now this obviously feels bad. Some people tell you this is not true, you should let go and stop believing. 

Are they self-hypnotizing into no longer believing their hand is ugly? It's silly from our POV because we don't believe the lie that our hand is ugly. But from the person that believes, it's like challenging their reality. If you challenge your reality you may start believing new bullshit and hypnotizing yourself. But if you don't believe anything you can't go wrong. Can you debunk me if I don't claim anything?

@4201

So the only way to know is to stop believing even in Enlightenment. Ha?

[Reciprocality]

It can not be believed in, if by it we mean its real and not ideal entity.

[OneIntoOne]

10 minutes ago, erik8lrl said:

@OneIntoOne In the absolute sense, everything is imagined and pretended/self-created/"hypnotized." You are God pretending to be a being that thinks enlightenment is just self-hypnosis, which in itself is self-hypnosis. It still doesn't give you any clarity in what self is and what hypnosis is. Enlightenment can be defined in many different ways, and it has many different degrees. But the definitive point for me is if you have had a direct experience in absolute source/love/nothingness and no longer have any doubt about what you are, after this point is liberation.

Now the only way for you to find if this is true is if you reach that point. Same as how for you to truly know that if enlightenment is just self-hypnotization, you would have to become enlightened first. The only way out is through. So keep going. Your ego is trying to trick you into stopping doing the work. It happens often on this path.     

@erik8lrl

You know you can ONLY get hypnotized if you give your self permission to believe in the hypnoses.  

why would that be any deferent? 

[OneIntoOne]

11 minutes ago, The0Self said:

I guess you could believe reality is hypnotized — it’d still just be what apparently happens — that never changes and I’m unsure how that could be argued against, but I suppose one could try.

@The0Self

Or the other way around? Reality is reality. Enlightenment is hypnotized?

 

[4201]

10 minutes ago, OneIntoOne said:

@4201

So the only way to know is to stop believing even in Enlightenment. Ha?

The only way to actually know is to stop thinking you already know and look! There is an answer that feels great, the "solution" to this puzzle. Once you touch it with your mind it feels great. This feeling is direct experience, just like sight and sounds.

How do you know anything for certain? You just don't. Any idea can be wrong, except the lack of idea. Direct consciousness, what you see, hear, feel, touch and smell, is not an idea however, so you can trust that! What else do you want to trust?

What even is "believing in enlightenment" to you? I would suspect this is where there could be lots of misconceptions. Enlightenment is not a style, an idealogy or a way of thinking. There are no enlightened people, only people that claim stuff and nothing such people say will ever be better than your direct experience.

Edited April 25, 2021 by 4201

[erik8lrl]

@OneIntoOne Not telling you to believe or not believe anything, only to find the truth yourself. You do realize that not believing something is also a belief. The pursuit/desire of enlightenment will need to be let go of before enlightenment can happen, but it's the last step after you've let go of everything else. If your intuition tells you to forget about enlightenment since you believe it's hypnotized, then go for it and see where it leads you. 

[OneIntoOne]

7 minutes ago, erik8lrl said:

@OneIntoOne Not telling you to believe or not believe anything, only to find the truth yourself. You do realize that not believing something is also a belief. The pursuit/desire of enlightenment will need to be let go of before enlightenment can happen, but it's the last step after you've let go of everything else. If your intuition tells you to forget about enlightenment since you believe it's hypnotized, then go for it and see where it leads you. 

@erik8lrl

And yet i still want Enlightenment so badly

[Willie]

Hypnosis? Hypnotized?

 

[Eternal Unity]

Yes. No. Both. Neither.

[OneIntoOne]

2 minutes ago, Willie said:

Hypnosis? Hypnotized?

 

@Willie

Am i missing something?

If you know something say something.

I only want to to understand.

Yes you got me to wonder and google: Can you stay hypnotized forever 

[OneIntoOne]

2 minutes ago, Eternal Unity said:

Yes. No. Both. Neither.

@Eternal Unity

Yes i know all of this. Easy to say. Spiritual classical. 

i'm trying to get clarity.

[Eternal Unity]

Just now, OneIntoOne said:

@Eternal Unity

Yes i know all of this. Easy to say. Spiritual classical. 

i'm trying to get clarity.

Try use more Emoticons. It helps to express emotions through technology.