Why does Leo call Reality an illusion?

[SQAAD]

I have heard many spiritual people (Leo, Shunyamurti etc) call reality an illusion. But others don't like calling it illusion..For example Martin Ball claims that Reality is NOT an illusion.

What's going on here? Can someone explain to me please.

I know that conceptually it doesn't really matter if you call reality reality or illusion since there is nothing to contrast it with.

Is it just a word game?

 

[Meditationdude]

@SQAAD it’s just a word game. 
 

I’m curious why it matters to you? 

[Heart of Space]

Because reality is not how it seems.  It's an illusion, a dream.  

[BipolarGrowth]

I’d assume it’s similar to reality as it exists in the ego’s understanding and the finite self as being an illusion. You can’t have a materialistic notion of reality without an ego telling itself that it is separate in some way. I’m not sure exactly how Leo sees this, but this is what I’ve come to conclude personally. 
 

Also, if you think of reality as containing things not within your present moment experience, that is certainly an illusion. It seems to be the case, but there can never be a way for this to be proven in any real way. There is never a way that that concept will be experienced as the thing we’re talking about is literally something which by definition cannot be experienced. It’s essentially the exact same as the idea of nonexistence somehow being a real thing. 
 

To conclude, reality, as I define it, is what is. It is what is true. It is what is undeniably evident. Illusion requires a conceptual framework. Even if what you are experiencing is some simulation or matrix-like situation, it does not change the fact that that experience is occurring. The properties or source of what is can be questioned, but you can’t deny that if there is the appearance of what we call an apple in your left hand that the appearance exists. 
 

If you haven’t seen this video of Leo’s, I’d say it’s probably one that comes closest to addressing this topic. An important meta-ish distinction to make about what he is saying is that concepts are actual in that the concept itself exists, but this does not mean the concept is accurate. 

 

[SQAAD]

@Meditationdude

8 hours ago, Meditationdude said:

@SQAAD it’s just a word game. 
 

I’m curious why it matters to you? 

Because i am curious and trying to find out what is going on. Many times i get confused by spiritual teachers and how differently they seem to interpret God and etc.

 

[Scholar]

1 hour ago, SQAAD said:

@Meditationdude

Because i am curious and trying to find out what is going on. Many times i get confused by spiritual teachers and how differently they seem to interpret God and etc.

 

That's because interpretation is not the same as that which is being interpreted. It's all nonsense, some teachers just take their nonsense more seriously than others, depending on how attached they are to it.

[Wilhelm44]

It's an illusion in the sense that I am not ultimately the character that you see in my profile picture. But it's also not an illusion in the sense that if I step in front of a moving bus, my body will probably be squashed 

[The0Self]

Distortion.

Theres only infinite love. Nothing. Truth. In order to something to appear to happen, a distortion on this must be made. A distortion of truth is an illusion.

[SolarWarden]

Here is a good perspective:

"the universe and everything in it as being “maya” – illusion – is because of the impermanence, the finite nature, the changeability and ultimate temporariness of the universe and everything in it."

It is undeniable that everything around us currently objectively exists but it is equally undeniable that everything around us, everything manifested, is but finite and impermanent.

It is only that which is infinite, permanent, changeless, unchangeable, and eternal, which can be considered as being TRULY Real."

[TheDao]

@SolarWarden Why would this be of use for my life. I only experience the finite and impermanent.

[VeganAwake]

It appears there are some characters who enjoy or tolerate attempting to describe the indescribable and others who don't care too so much.

When this character is deeply observed it's recognized to be nothing more than a bundle of conditioning.

So these illusory characters run around in the dream story casting meaning purpose and value over top of apparent reality attempting to find something that makes them not feel separate any longer.

But the separation never occurred because the individual was never real.

" the separation never occurred"

- acim

[Eternal Unity]

Because physicality, in an of itself is just 33.3% out of The Totally of God AKA Ultimate Reality.

So Leo uses the phrase "Reality" here at the CONTEXT of your present level of comprehension of God.

Always remember.

We're trying to explain the inexplicable.

In order to make our path a little less arduous, Leo created the Actualized forum.

 

[Willie]

Reality is here and now. Reality cannot be unreal. Experiencing and perceiving creates the illusion. Multiple people can be at the same place and experience the same event, yet have different perceptions of it. If any of these perceptions of the event are described as “reality”, that is the illusion. 
 

Also, believing the illusion as the truth is delusion.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Willie

[SolarWarden]

4 hours ago, TheDao said:

@SolarWarden Why would this be of use for my life. I only experience the finite and impermanent.

no-thing.

[Guest EmptyVase]

17 hours ago, SQAAD said:

What's going on here?

I'd say it's a different framing/approach/pointer/perspective of the same thing. Reality = Reality is one angle to look at reality. Reality = Illusion then tries to convey another aspect of it. They're both valid in their own right.

I think it's wise to ask yourself: "What does this framing/approach/pointer/perspective try to convey?" instead of "Why is he saying X, and she is saying Y?".

One of these questions will actually make you inspect what is being talked about. The other one will likely make you think about it.

[ilja]

because leo is a psychotic cult leader, muahahahahaha.

jk

[Heart of Space]

19 minutes ago, ilja said:

because leo is a psychotic cult leader, muahahahahaha.

jk

He is, what are you gonna do about it, pussy?

[ilja]

4 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

He is, what are you gonna do about it, pussy?

judging where we met on a previous thread of yours, this is not a wise decision.

Edited April 24, 2021 by ilja

[Heart of Space]

49 minutes ago, ilja said:

judging where we met on a previous thread of yours, this is not a wise decision.

Do I look like the type of guy who would care?  ?

[ilja]

1 hour ago, Heart of Space said:

Do I look like the type of guy who would care?  ?

yes, you do.