Consciousness or being?

[Someone here]

Leo says everything is Consciousness.. And after contemplating this enough I think it's not quite accurate. Because consciousness implies something that is conscious and another substance that it is conscious of.. A subject and object. A perceiver and  a perceived. and that process is Consciousness. So 'you' are conscious of existence. That's a duality. When we say everything is Consciousness.. The problem is that the conventional meaning of the word consciousness rings duality (perceiver and perceived). Whereas upon closer investigation.. It turns out everything just is. There is no perception process going on.. So there is no consciousness in that sense. Unless what is meant is sound and sight and other phenomenon.. It's the same thing... The most accurate description is that reality is being. Because everything just is being itself. It's not perceiving itself or conscious of itself. For example you might think that your eyes see the world.. There's false.. Your eyes are just being the appearance of an eye.. And the visual field occurs exactly where is it occurs.. And they are distinct. And each one just is being itself.. The eye doesn't perceive the world.. The eye is just eyeing and the world is just worlding. 

Am I missing something? 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Someone here

[Godishere]

That's was a mind fuck to read ? I think I get your point though. The duality of perceived and perceiver. Subject vs object. This is the illusion right? There is no difference between you and the external world. Is this not the basics of non-duality? This was the first mystical experience I had; when I realised my conciousness was not localized and I wasn't my body/self. Correct me if I'm wrong or if I'm missing your point.

[Leo Gura]

48 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Because consciousness implies something that is conscious and another substance that it is conscious of.. A subject and object. A perceiver and  a perceived. and that process is Consciousness. So 'you' are conscious of existence.

No.

All of that is your dualistic projection upon consciousness.

Consciousness does not imply any such thing. You mistakenly assume it does.

[Someone here]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

All of that is your dualistic projection upon consciousness

I get it.. All that is my dualistic projection upon "being". Because we use consciousness to say "I'm conscious of X". So the word itself has a dualistic implication inherent in it. We use "consciousness" in a dualistic way in language. If you agree with me that perception is an illusion then I think the word 'being' might be preferable than consciousness because it gets confused with perception. 

 

28 minutes ago, Godishere said:

Correct me if I'm wrong or if I'm missing your point.

No you got the point right. 

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

So the word itself has a dualistic implication inherent in it.

It only does because YOU put it there.

And, you should note that every word/thought will be dualistic. Including "being". That is just the nature of all words.

[Juliano Zn]

Help me understand. Right now I am conscious of my room, body, thoughts, sounds, sights, etc. Those are the perceived. If I try to find the perceiver, a thought appears (usually an image of my face or the whole body). This thought is also part of the perceived.

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Leo says everything is Consciousness.. And after contemplating this enough I think it's not quite accurate. Because consciousness implies something that is conscious and another substance that it is conscious of.. A subject and object. A perceiver and  a perceived. and that process is Consciousness. So 'you' are conscious of existence.

It seems impossible to find a perceiver. Wouldn't that mean there's only the perceived?

[Someone here]

@Juliano Zn there is no perception. No perceiver or perceived. That's just a conceptual interpretation and projection. There is just what is.. Without any conceptual overlay. 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Someone here

[Inliytened1]

@Someone here think of ithe term Consciousness more holistically..As in Infinity.  With Infinity everything and nothing cancel each other out and boom...Consciousness.  Consciousness = Infinity.

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Juliano Zn said:

It seems impossible to find a perceiver. Wouldn't that mean there's only the perceived?

The perceiver is Nothing.

Or, to say it another way, perceiver = perceived.

[Finax]

Being is a better way of explaining  what YOU are as eternal nothingness, better than saying consciousness as people may misinterpret that as what is being conscious of.

[Someone here]

@Inliytened1 I guess my point is that when I'm looking at an object.. There is really no me and no looking happening.. It's just the image of the object. that's all there is. So it's not accurate to say I'm conscious of the object or the substance of reality is Consciousness as in "perception". I guess "being" is closer. 

[diamondpenguin]

You will be dead one day.

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, Someone here said:

So it's not accurate to say I'm conscious of the object

You are conscious right now.

Don't ignore the obvious.

You just aren't conscious that you are God. Which is why you're confused.

[The0Self]

50 minutes ago, Juliano Zn said:

Help me understand. Right now I am conscious of my room, body, thoughts, sounds, sights, etc. Those are the perceived. If I try to find the perceiver, a thought appears (usually an image of my face or the whole body). This thought is also part of the perceived.

It seems impossible to find a perceiver. Wouldn't that mean there's only the perceived?

There is just what seems to be happening. Reality/God/Self creating everything by appearing as duality. If there's a person over there, this experience of a self-conscious perceiver is just one of these creations -- God/Infinity appearing as that.

[allislove]

9 hours ago, Someone here said:

Leo says everything is Consciousness.. And after contemplating this enough I think it's not quite accurate. Because consciousness implies something that is conscious and another substance that it is conscious of.. A subject and object. A perceiver and  a perceived. and that process is Consciousness. So 'you' are conscious of existence. That's a duality. When we say everything is Consciousness.. The problem is that the conventional meaning of the word consciousness rings duality (perceiver and perceived). Whereas upon closer investigation.. It turns out everything just is. There is no perception process going on.. So there is no consciousness in that sense. Unless what is meant is sound and sight and other phenomenon.. It's the same thing... The most accurate description is that reality is being. Because everything just is being itself. It's not perceiving itself or conscious of itself. For example you might think that your eyes see the world.. There's false.. Your eyes are just being the appearance of an eye.. And the visual field occurs exactly where is it occurs.. And they are distinct. And each one just is being itself.. The eye doesn't perceive the world.. The eye is just eyeing and the world is just worlding. 

Am I missing something? 

I like where you're going with the recent posts. ?

Being is a good description, so is Consciousness. To have a description it already implies a duality - description and the thing it describes. On top of it there can be description of the description - good description, bad description, accurate description. What makes description to be accurate? A belief. If you believe that Being description describes better reality than Consciousness description, that's fine. The thing is, reality is indescribable. Imagine, you have an apple, you can't really describe how apple tastes. Any description of the apple's taste falls short of biting the apple. Here is the same thing, doesn't matter how to call it, personally Unicorn is the best pointer. But notice, in order to any description to appear there should be existence first, in which the description appears. You are before any description, you are the thing that allows for any description to exist, you are the existence itself.

[Someone here]

3 hours ago, allislove said:

Being is a good description, so is Consciousness. To have a description it already implies a duality - description and the thing it describes. On top of it there can be description of the description - good description, bad description, accurate description. What makes description to be accurate? A belief. If you believe that Being description describes better reality than Consciousness description, that's fine. The thing is, reality is indescribable. Imagine, you have an apple, you can't really describe how apple tastes. Any description of the apple's taste falls short of biting the apple. Here is the same thing, doesn't matter how to call it, personally Unicorn is the best pointer. But notice, in order to any description to appear there should be existence first, in which the description appears. You are before any description, you are the thing that allows for any description to exist, you are the existence itself.

I like this. Couldn't agree more ?

[Mason Riggle]

@Someone here I completely agree with you here. 

In a different thread, Leo used the expression 'Consciousness imagines EVERYTHING', as if 'consciousness' was separate from 'EVERYTHING that it imagines'.  He might have said, 'Consciousness IS EVERYTHING' and meant the same thing, if what he means is that 'all there is is consciousness'.. but this is like saying 'A=A'..   or A is itself..  

Why not drop the 'everything is itself' language, and just say, 'Everything is'? 


 

[Someone here]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You are conscious right now. 

.. Isn't that what you called a dualistic projection??

I am conscious is a duality .. It implies a me that owns a separate thing called "consciousness" and it implies a separate object that I am conscious of.. 

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't ignore the obvious.

Well it's not so obvious. If we look closely.. There is cluster of phenomenon happening but there is no one separate from them. You could say there is only consciousness without someone being conscious which is what I mean by "being".. But "I am conscious" is really not what's happening here If we Investigate deeper. 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Someone here

[WaveInTheOcean]

Consciousness and Being are identical.

Nothing, no object, 'has' consciousness. 

Everything IS Consciousness... and "your being" is NOT separate from IT.

You ARE 'it' !

Edited April 23, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Mason Riggle said:

Why not drop the 'everything is itself' language, and just say, 'Everything is'?

Because no matter how little you say it will still not be right.

Truth cannot be spoken. So debating about how to speak it is stupid.

ALL LANGUAGE IS DUALISTIC!

You will never get around that. So give up the game.