Bashar On Psychedelics

[Leo Gura]

I think most of you here who speak of "breakthroughs" have never actually had a serious one.

You are off by orders of magnitude. We are not even talking about the same ballpark.

[Raptorsin7]

@Leo Gura My breakthrough was enough for me. I just want to be happy and peaceful and blissful 

 

[mandyjw]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

We are not even talking about the same ballpark.

What separates the ballparks? Walls and fences you gotta break through? 

[Eternal Unity]

1 minute ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Leo Gura My breakthrough was enough for me. I just want to be happy and peaceful and blissful 

 

That's Liberation for you right there. Re Enter The Market Place 

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Leo Gura My breakthrough was enough for me. I just want to be happy and peaceful and blissful 

Weaksauce

The levels of consciousness I am talking about cannot be reached through meditation.

Consider the possiblity of levels of consciousness you cannot imagine even in your best meditation days.

That is what I'm interested in.

[mandyjw]

4 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

 I just want to be happy and peaceful and blissful 

No, you don't want to limit yourself like that. You already are that without doing anything. You're like an author sitting there in the comfort of their home, with a calming cup of tea, writing an epic battle scene. Just stop mistaking the character for the author. 

[Raptorsin7]

@Leo Gura To each their own. I bet your perspective will change on psychs and meditation eventually.

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Raptorsin7

[Raptorsin7]

2 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

No, you don't want to limit yourself like that. You already are that without doing anything. You're like an author sitting there in the comfort of their home, with a calming cup of tea, writing an epic battle scene. Just stop mistaking the character for the author. 

It's not limiting. And no I am not already that, at least not in the way you're saying.

I'd say the breakthrough wasn't the end all be all of existence. It was just an entirely different way of being that resolved so much, if not all, of the suffering i've had my entire life.

There's an entire conditioned pattern of clinging to objects and distracting yourself that takes time to unwind. I get what you're saying I think, but it seems misleading too

 

[mandyjw]

@Raptorsin7 Honestly is good. But we often get honesty mixed up with perpetuating issues that we don't realize we are perpetuating, because we have done this so long that we believe that they are happening TO us.  A resolution happens TO the character only, the author just creates it. If the author does not wake up and notice that he is home, safe, and creating with his thoughts, the character will never get their resolution. The character never wakes up from the story. It doesn't matter if the character desperately wants a resolution, only the will of the author will be done. Don't mistake a resolution with what you really are, the creator of problems and their resolutions.

 

[WaveInTheOcean]

To everyone wondering if their DMT trip was a "break-through" one or not:

If there is even 0,1% doubt in your mind about whether you were breaking through or not, it was NOT a break-through experience.

A break-through DMT trip is (IMHE) the maximium level of consciousness possible to achieve (if only briefly) for a human avatar body-mind.

Basically just ABSOLUTE PURE INFINITY. 

Such a break-through DMT trip will ABSOLUTELY FLOOR you to the ground.

When coming down from such a trip, you won't know whether to cry your heart out like a baby or laugh hysterically like a maniac.

Through such a trip, 'reality' is seen to be so FUCKING    GOOD that words can only fail.

There will be no doubt afterwards. No worry. No fear. No anxiety.
Just deep inner peace you previously thought was completely off-limits / inaccessable. 

If you haven't "done it', you won't believe it.
You can't even imagine 0,1% of what I'm speaking about if you haven't "been there".

Edited April 26, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[mandyjw]

8 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

To everyone wondering if their DMT trip was a "break-through" one or not:

If there is even 0,1% doubt in your mind about whether you were breaking through or not, it was NOT a break-through experience.
 

Should I doubt the thought of doubt, or the breakthrough itself? Isn't the breakthrough once passed, itself a thought? Is experience itself in the past, or is that an experience of a thought about an experience? With this "in mind", all breakthroughs should be both fully credited, heralded and completely disregarded. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

13 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Should I doubt the thought of doubt, or the breakthrough itself? Isn't the breakthrough once passed, itself a thought? Is experience itself in the past, or is that an experience of a thought about an experience? With this "in mind", all breakthroughs should be both fully credited, heralded and completely disregarded. 

Doubt is fine and all if it appears, if it happens.

After my two breakthrough DMT trips there was no doubt.

I've had many other profound DMT trips where there was doubt afterwards in regards to many things, including whether it could get more crazy/wild/intense or not.

Yes, you are right, when you're done tripping, the trip is now only a memory; a thought in The Now. But that's not a problem -- that's a neat feature of existence :-) Be glad You/God/We imagined 'memory' ... That's so complex, intelligent and amazing. 

The "problem" (if you will) can be either:

- getting too attached to memories
- dismissing memories.

Optimally, you should be right in the middle of these two extremes. Just pure openness, joy of being, neither being attached to the past nor ignoring it :-) 

"Is experience itself in the past, or is that an experience of a thought about an experience?"

Hehe, I think it's slightly more accurate to say that  memories about the past  are:  "an experience -- happening in The Now -- of a set-of-thoughts about an experience that is believed to have occured in The Now".

At some level, whatever you believe is kind of real (becomes 'real').

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

Should I doubt the thought of doubt, or the breakthrough itself? Isn't the breakthrough once passed, itself a thought?

No. ‘Breakthrough’ is a thought like ‘God’ is a thought. ‘Breakthrough’ only serves to point to that there are not two. 

THAT IS HOW FUCKING BRILLIANT YOU ARE. 

You were right, that did feel really nice. 

[knakoo]

46 minutes ago, Nahm said:

No. ‘Breakthrough’ is a thought like ‘God’ is a thought. ‘Breakthrough’ only serves to point to that there are not two. 

THAT IS HOW FUCKING BRILLIANT YOU ARE. 

You were right, that did feel really nice. 

I remember reading that you started getting interested in psychedelics after your awakening. Have you tried some ? Which one(s) ? How was it ? 

[mandyjw]

@Nahm I knew you'd come around to seeing it. 

You ever thought about how narcissistic it is to say from the perspective of earth that "the moon is full" or that it's a new moon or a quarter moon? The moon is like, I'm always a fucking sphere buddy, your perspective just changes and so you think there are things like alignment and reflection of light. And the sun is just like, "what the fuck guys, you're just going around in circles." 

[Nahm]

@mandyjw

Exactly. As if the light were “making it’s way” to earth. 

[roopepa]

Conversations like in this thread makes me reconsider everything I think I know and what I should be doing and how to think about my life.

A weird anxiety and a little peace somewhere in it. Thanks, I hate and I love it.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, roopepa said:

Conversations like in this thread makes me reconsider everything I think I know and what I should be doing and how to think about my life.

Excellent!

[Forestluv]

10 hours ago, GoobyBooby said:

Bashar said that psychedelics can become a crutch. Whatever we believe, is. Whatever we believe is a limitation, is a limitation.

Hard work beats genetics all day long. They did not get a 6 pack by drinking beer on the couch everyday. 10,000 hour rule, unless you hit your head and become a savant.

It depends on degree. Someone born genetically with three chromosome 21s will have Down Syndrome. Regardless of how hard they work, they will not learn high level calculus. This isn't merely a limiting belief. In this context, whatever the Down Syndrome person believes is irrelevant. They are not going to learn high level calculus, The range is too great. Telling a Downs person that the only reason they aren't learning high level calculus is because they aren't working hard enough isn't fair to that person. The person may say it with good intentions to empower the Downs person, yet it would be cruel to say to them. Similarly, it would be cruel to tell a paralyzed person the only reason they can't walk is because they aren't trying hard enough. 

However, there are many other contexts in which limiting beliefs are holding someone back from their potential. For example someone may believe "I can't learn calculus because I have ADHD or dyslexia". In this context, it is a barrier not a true limitiation.

Let's consider Bashar's assertion that psychedelic-induced conscious states can be attained without the vehicle of psychedelics. In some contexts, this is true. Psychedelics may break down limiting beliefs and open doors that can be explored while sober. For example, someone may believe that they have no artistic abilities. Yet on psychedelics, they enter a world of creativity they never knew existed. They gave themself a "permission slip". This can lead to a realization of "Omg, I have creative potential. I just did that". This may shatter their limiting belief and open new doors to explore their creative side. They may be able to reach new deep states of creativity while sober and be amazed "Omg, I can do it myself! That zone of creativity was like a psychedelic trip! Yet I was sober!". . .Psychedelics alter neuronal firing patterns and Donald Hebb observed "Neurons that fire together, wire together". It's been clearly demonstrated that psychedelics can induce radical neural plasticity. When psychedelics are done with expertise, new neural wirings can be induced and maintained long-term. 

Yet this is different from high doses of psychedelics that are further out there. As a hyperbolic example: someone sober cannot induce the conscious state of 100 hits of acid. That range is too great. It's a matter of degree. 

[Leo Gura]

Train all you want but you will never outrun a cheetah.