Bashar On Psychedelics

[seeking_brilliance]

Is bashar saying that you can have sober experience similar to a breakthrough DMT dose, or is he saying that the breakthrough DMT dose is the teacher, not the crutch. ?‍♂️ I'm hearing the latter, but maybe that's just confirmation bias... 

[Forestluv]

@mandyjw I don't disagree with what you are writing. I'm saying that there are dimensions in which it's helpful to use external input. This input could be a spiritual teacher, breathwork, yoga, sensory deprivation tank, EMDR, psychedelics, hypnosis, long distance running etc. It depends on the dimension. 

[Forestluv]

I'd say it's a matter of degree. With some neural plasticity induced by previous psychedelic experiences, a low dose equivalent of about 10mg of 5meo is possible sober. For me, sometimes it just arises, sometimes I can coax it along. It feels like I'm mildly tripping.

With some work, I'd say a moderate level of 15-20mg 5meo is possible with some assistance. I've reached these moderate trippy zones with breathwork.

Yet I don't see generating high psychedelic dose equivalents sober. It would be extremely difficult to induce the equivalent of 500ug of LSD. That's like saying, "I'm going to induce the effects of drinking a bottle of vodka while sober". 

[Waken]

@Forestluv But Bashar doesn't say that if you have something like 'okay let me now try to get to this state which I got in when I took 500ug LSD' you will be able to do so. He says if you KNOW that you were cause of the effect, you were the permission slip all along, you did it already all this time yourself, than you can. He talks about knowing you can do it. Knowing is a very different matter than having a weak ass sorta hope or belief that you can do it. 

[Forestluv]

18 minutes ago, Waken said:

@Forestluv He talks about knowing you can do it. Knowing is a very different matter than having a weak ass sorta hope or belief that you can do it. 

I think "permission slips" and knowing can open doors and it super important for expanding potential. I've explored many different phenomena in which I gave my self "permission" to let go. Things I didn't know was possible arose. I realized "whoa, I did that" and had a knowing I could do it.

Yet this only goes so far when external inputs are added in. If I lift a 500lb rock with the assistance of a bulldozer, it doesn't mean I can do it without the bulldozer. At a physical level, high doses of psychedelics are extremely strong serotonin agonists. They massively alter brain activity. The brain scans are shocking. No one has come anywhere close to mimicking this while sober. Knowing is great, if it is based in reality. Someone could "know" they can induce this type of altered consciousness and brain activity, yet that doesn't mean they can actually do it. I may 'know' that I can lift a 500lb rock without a bulldozer, yet that doesn't mean I can actually do it. 

I've never even heard of someone making the claim that they can induce a high-dose psychedelic state while sober. 

[mandyjw]

What happens when you fall totally, completely in love... with no thing in particular? 

[Javfly33]

On 23/4/2021 at 2:45 AM, Leo Gura said:

I made no such point.

One's growth is irrelevant when the topic at hand is the state of consciousness acheivable via DMT. The state is the state. Whether you benefit from it or not is irrelevant. How long it lasts is irrelevant. You cannot acheive that state "naturally". You can acheive higher states naturally, but not that high. Not even close.

People who say they can have simply never had a serious DMT breakthrough. They don't know what they are talking about and they have no idea what consciousness is capable of on a vaped DMT peak. It is nothing a human can imagine or will into being. It would be easier to grow your dick by 6 inches than to will yourself into a DMT peak.

No yogi, nor meditator, nor enlightened person is able to do that. No technique will get you there.

Why not? If psychotic states happen to a lot of people "sober", why don't you consider the possibility that there are people with similar weird brain chemistry able to access this states? Your attitude seems very dogmatic and closed mindness here. Also *trying to achieve this states sober, doesn't prevent you to keep doing psychedelics ! ? So I don't see the issue in Bashar recomming this. In the same way you can try to run 100miles yet that doesn't prevent you to keep using the car ?

The fact that it is rare and most people won't probably be able to do it it's another discussion thought.

[mandyjw]

7 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

The fact that it is rare and most people won't probably be able to do it it's another discussion thought.

It's not rare but most people are uneducated about spiritual awakening and so it's not often recognized and can even be passed off as an episode of insanity, a middle life crisis, a breakdown, etc. It will be interpreted the way you filter it. You could be a normal person and have a spiritual awakening that some other a seeker sought for years of his life and never got and you could interpret it as a mental illness and wish you were a normal person. 

You could say that you are biologically programmed for it. What happens to people who have near death experiences can be triggered by simply letting go of beliefs, resistance and deeply surrendering to emotions and feeling. 

[Nemra]

Isn't the point of this conversation that reality is perspectival? At the end of the day, everyone will trust only their own experience as much as you convince them otherwise. Or am I not getting it? 

[Porphyry Fedotov]

Well, how about experiences people have during the Kundalini awakening? Take for instance Swami Muktananda. In his book "The play of consciousness" he describes pretty wild visions. The whole ordeal lasted more then one day...

[WaveInTheOcean]

19 minutes ago, Understander said:

Isn't the point of this conversation that reality is perspectival? At the end of the day, everyone will trust only their own experience as much as you convince them otherwise. Or am I not getting it? 

It's about 

- the implications of reality being perspectival

- how you get one to see this

The rabbit hole is deep

[Danioover9000]

@Swarnim

21 hours ago, Swarnim said:

Pure conceptualization but, what if you dont need to use the body to recreate a DMT breakthrough? What if Astral Projection works and you could achieve a big ass breakthrough through means of an Astral or whatever body in some other world your projected to? Just conceptualizing because I have never experienced psychedelics, nor proper astral projection at will.

   This is also possible, as I've reached psychedelic like states through astral projection many times, that is similar to small doses. I've also experienced dmt like fields comparable to being on a medium dose in deep sleep, so to me Bashar's claim might not be so far fetched. Probably for the normies it's far fetched, but similarly to Bashar, I'm not normal and can access other states of consciousness difficult to access normally.

   I think the main issue is that it's normalized in him, such that he implicitly assumes some of the people might achieve what he achieved similarly, which is more time than not not the case. Also, even though I'm a freak in nature to this, this still took some working in to access those states, and some assistance from a few entities outside my space to pull me there.

[TheSelf]

@Danioover9000 Are you familiar with work of William Buhlman regarding Astral Projection?

There's a powerful affirmation called "Higher Self Now" introduced by him (there's also a book with the same title from him) which can immediatly lead to some higher state of consciousness if one use it in the astral planes.

I haven't tried it yet, if it's easy for you to project I'd say definitely try it (if you already haven't tried it) I'd be happy to read about your experience later 

 

 

[Danioover9000]

@m0hsen

17 hours ago, m0hsen said:

@Danioover9000 Are you familiar with work of William Buhlman regarding Astral Projection?

There's a powerful affirmation called "Higher Self Now" introduced by him (there's also a book with the same title from him) which can immediatly lead to some higher state of consciousness if one use it in the astral planes.

I haven't tried it yet, if it's easy for you to project I'd say definitely try it (if you already haven't tried it) I'd be happy to read about your experience later 

 

 

   I'm not familiar with that work, but I'll check it out later and report what effects it had on me.

   My way of entering psychedelic states while astral projecting is an amalgamation of different esoteric practices involving different vibrations, from light to heavy, and some alien vibrations as well. This came about from me doing different practices, and customizing them to my particular energies, like cleansing and blessing an area, or envoking and channeling other entities. While there was some element of natural ability, for example the haunting I had decades ago, and some other paranormal events, I still had to put some work in exploring and self experimenting. There's never mostly a one size fits all, that's rare, which is why exploring is needed.

[Lyubov]

On 4/23/2021 at 9:13 AM, Leo Gura said:

Think of it like this: anyone can go to the gym and put on muscle. Everyone's body can naturally create testosterone -- even women! But you will never naturally achieve this look:

Your body cannot produce that much natural testosterone. And to tell newbies that it can is utterly irresponsible and misleading.

No gym technique will give you that look. The only way to get that look is to inject testosterone.

If you insist on going "all natural" -- fine. But you will not be as conscious as one who takes psychedelics. Not even close.

You are like a woman thinking you can be Ronnie Coleman while drinking your soy as long as you hit the gym hard enough. No!

Shinzen Young did 40 years of professional meditation. I can be more conscious than him in 15 minutes. That is the reality of how this works. You can make all the rationalizations you want, but the brute reality remains.

john cena looked like this in his prime for over a decade

he swears he didn't do any hgh to get this big... maybe I'm naive but I believe him

john cena is probably genetically gifted though 

[Leo Gura]

49 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

john cena is probably genetically gifted though

You don't need dick extension surgery if you are hung like Mark Wahlberg in Boogie Nights.

Anyone doing professional sports is exceptionally genetically gifted. Such people are in the top 1% of the bell curve. If they weren't they would not even have a chance to compete. Merely the cost of entry into that arena is having top 1% genetics. This is true of all sports. Which is why all competitive sports are stupid. All you're doing is comparing genetic lottery numbers while telling yourself how good you are. You are only that good because you had the foundation to be that good. You didn't create the foundation, God gave it to you.

This is true of all the world's greatest mystics. The dirty secret is that they didn't do it, they were given it. And Bashar is no exception to this. The idea that some technique will replace the right foundation is one of the greatest scams in human history. Foundation will always trump technique and effort.

[GoobyBooby]

On 4/24/2021 at 4:55 AM, seeking_brilliance said:

Is bashar saying that you can have sober experience similar to a breakthrough DMT dose, or is he saying that the breakthrough DMT dose is the teacher, not the crutch. ?‍♂️ I'm hearing the latter, but maybe that's just confirmation bias... 

Bashar said that psychedelics can become a crutch. Whatever we believe, is. Whatever we believe is a limitation, is a limitation.

Hard work beats genetics all day long. They did not get a 6 pack by drinking beer on the couch everyday. 10,000 hour rule, unless you hit your head and become a savant.

On doing it sober: Do people in the ER room having a mystical experience, count? Because then that is another category with many cases per day.

Edited April 26, 2021 by GoobyBooby

[Matt23]

How much do you think psychedelics could actually help in growing people rather than only reaching higher states of consciousness which you then come back to your baseline level right after?

 

Also, for the talk about being genetically gifted, I can kinda see that.  In all domains of life.  Like basketball for instance, some of the lowest ranked NBA players absolutely school high-level non-NBA players (NBA players are the top players in the world.  In a season, there are about 450, so the top 450 players in the world).  Here's a couple videos of some NBA players, not even the best ones, absolutely schooling elite non-NBA players. 

I think the first video is the best one.  It really shows you the differences from the top players in the world vs. everyone else. 

 

I guess the question is, reasonably assuming that some people are simply genetically gifted or something, and that you'll probably never get to their level, what do you do?  I think somehow you still gotta find the drive to make the most of yourself, focus on your own progress and fulfillment doing what you're doing.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Matt23

[GoobyBooby]

Sometimes it only takes 1 breakthrough aka 1 trip total, for people to know the full scope of what is possible

[Raptorsin7]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

ou don't need dick extension surgery if you are hung like Mark Wahlberg in Boogie Nights.

Anyone doing professional sports is exceptionally genetically gifted. Such people are in the top 1% of the bell curve. If they weren't they would not even have a chance to compete. Merely the cost of entry into that arena is having top 1% genetics. This is true of all sports. Which is why all competitive sports are stupid. All you're doing is comparing genetic lottery numbers while telling yourself how good you are. You are only that good because you had the foundation to be that good. You didn't create the foundation, God gave it to you.

This is true of all the world's greatest mystics. The dirty secret is that they didn't do it, they were given it. And Bashar is no exception to this. The idea that some technique will replace the right foundation is one of the greatest scams in human history. Foundation will always trump technique and effort.

So a person's ability to be spiritual is predominantly genetic?

What about intelligence? Is a person's ability to be intelligent and reasonable genetic? 

This is very slippery