Does Success Hurt Woman's Dating Chances

[intotheblack]

11 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

The more I see this, the more I realize that they are unconscious of their biases. PUAs figure out their biases, manipulate those and get into their pants. This is the reality. Doesn't make me very happy to say this.

Yeah, I know they do that.  But it’s quite easy to spot a that type of Guy, they love bomb you and try to push through your boundaries.  
Or they act slithery when you ask them something.  A practical thing to do would be to ask a lot of questions and watch their behaviour 

of course younger girls would be more easily tricked.  It’s not a nice game.

those fuckboy types usually have avoidant attachment behaviour, so you could find out by simply trying to create some intimacy with them and then watch them squirm. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by intotheblack

[Raptorsin7]

17 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

All of that is good and fine on paper. Anyone can say they are these things. What actually matters, though, is the standards you use in real life to judge whether he is high-quality and mature. Those are the practical ones! What are those?

This is a great point. People use terms by they don't even have a clear understanding of the meaning of the words

[Raptorsin7]

12 minutes ago, intotheblack said:

Yeah, I know they do that.  But it’s quite easy to spot a that type of Guy, they love bomb you and try to push through your boundaries.  
Or they act slithery when you ask them something.  A practical thing to do would be to ask a lot of questions and watch their behaviour 

Or they make you feel safe, and you feel good in their presence. And then once they get what they want they take off the mask

[intotheblack]

29 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Or they make you feel safe, and you feel good in their presence. And then once they get what they want they take off the mask

Haha... well yeah, if they are a good enough actor and willing to manipulate to extreme lengths just to get sex!  And if it’s to have a same day lay, then force is also needed. 

so then you have a manipulative, fake guy pushing a girl into sex... and if they can keep the act up for days or even weeks then they are extreme toxic and delusional, and ultimately they will get their karma. 

It would be better for everyone if the guy said upfront he just wants sex then the girl can decide if she wants to do that or not.  Rather than totally playing someone and using them.

as women get older and have different experiences,  their bullshit detector gets higher.  Usually it’s younger or naive women who are targets for manipulative men.  They don’t have enough first hand experience to know better, then they learn the lesson. 

A responsible human wouldn’t want to hurt other people like that 

But it happens and that’s life.

but now we have totally changed topic. Don’t really wanna get into the pickup discussion. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by intotheblack

[Raptorsin7]

26 minutes ago, intotheblack said:

but now we have totally changed topic. Don’t really wanna get into the pickup discussion. 

Yeah i agree

[w4read]

Interesting discussion to follow. I would say that it makes sense that being succesfull as a woman could sometimes back fire in the sense that you reduce your options in a way. It's not like you become less desirable or anything, but as the guy in the video says you end up in a situation where your options are less so to speak. So if you go into a career thinking that it will enhance your sexual value or relationship opportunities, I think you would be mistaken. However, thats not the same as saying that you shouldn't do it. And honestly, if you did go into a career with the intention of following your dreams, growing as a person etc you wouldn't really care about how it affects your sexual value, would you? I think women most definitely should focus on their career, but they should do it for themselves, not anyone else.

[Consept]

5 hours ago, Emerald said:

I was just talking about the laundry-list problem above. 

Lots of women tend to get into a more intellectual way of orienting to relationship as opposed to a more organic heart-centered orientation to relationship.

So, they start looking for men who objectively fit certain criteria. But that's not where the magic is that bonds two people together. And it isn't the way female attraction naturally works. Female attraction is incredibly intuitive and particular... not objective, rational, and general. 

So, it's not really the career thing that holds women back from relationship. It's more about that non-emotional orientation to relationship prospects. But that's a Stage Orange issue... and women in careers emerges in Stage Orange. So, I could see how these things are conflated. 

But the real issue is picking with the mind based on a laundry list of qualities, instead of with the heart. 

I saw your comment just after i posted mine lol, but yes i completely agree with your take and i like your conclusion that women are picking with head rather than heart, that is really the core of the issue.

On a wider point just on this whole topic - Woman have always been the choosers, men have had to do what they can to be chosen, this is an evolutionary thing. The reason why men are even ambitious or driven in the first place is that the men women chose, back in hunter gatherer days, were the most resourceful and physically able to protect their family. This how its been for 1000s of years, men have never complained about this even when it leads to things like wanting them to be physically imposing by having a certain height or having enough resources or being able to connect emotionally, all these things and more push men to improve and be their best to attract a woman. If its things they cant change like height they play the cards they were dealt. The alternative is going into victim mode and becoming an incel. 

From an early age we almost intuitively know we have to work in some way to get a woman, at first we're told be society we need to be really nice to them, then when that doesnt work we might overdo it with the 'badboy' persona, then (if we get there) we realise we have to actually understand women on a deeper level and not treat them as some fragile pixie and actually treat them as a human and reach a connection on that level. This is a hard, long, confusing process (not many tell you this). 

Now cut to women, for the first time in history the last 50 years have seen women nearly reach parity with men in terms of resources, opportunities, pretty much everything, girls are outperforming boys at school so this is likely to carry on. This is great of course, there should be freedom for anyone who wants to do anything (within legality). But now with the choice comes responsibility for the choice, for example back in the day it wasnt that men wanted to do all the work, they just knew if they didnt they wouldnt get a partner. They were free to make that choice to some extent but they knew that it would severely limit their options. Now im not saying thats exactly the same as women working, its not, but you have to realise that men like certain things like a woman whos caring and nurturing, who is co-operative, who doesnt compete with him (oneupmanship), who is attractive, who is fit etc. What ive seen a lot from women that complain about men is 'he needs to take me as i am', which is fine but understand that many men may not want to do that, the same way women will not take a man who hasnt developed himself in the ways ive mentioned previously. 

So there has to be some accountability here of not being what men want, which by the way is not a very long list. Success doesnt factor into a mans selection to pursue you, its really all the other factors that would put someone off. Also a lot of successful women are not even looking at Mcdonalds workers or refuse collectors, theyre not looking at 91% of men who dont earn more than them, then cut into that 9% with height, fitness, age etc. So when you get to this probably 1% of the male pool that a successful woman would want, this person has a variety of choices, plus he doesnt care about dating someone who earns as much as them, so why would he choose this woman if she doesnt match up in the areas that are important to him?

Also the guys that are put off by a womans income, this will not even be a factor until they get married and have to work out bills and things like that, in most cases i dont think a guy like this would even get past that womans selection process. If he does what will put him off are other attributes that could be synonymous with a successful woman, its not the success itself.  

 

[Raptorsin7]

@Consept This is a great explanation of the phenomena thanks man

[Preety_India]

48 minutes ago, Consept said:

woman if she doesnt match up in the areas that are important to him?

Success has nothing to do with it. If she doesn't match up in the areas that are important to him, why would her success even matter?

 

[Consept]

3 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Success has nothing to do with it. If she doesn't match up in the areas that are important to him, why would her success even matter?

 

That's what you took from what I said? The success doesn't matter, I've said that many times 

[Raptorsin7]

@modmyth Thanks for your input much appreciated.

59 minutes ago, Consept said:

I saw your comment just after i posted mine lol, but yes i completely agree with your take and i like your conclusion that women are picking with head rather than heart, that is really the core of the issue.

On a wider point just on this whole topic - Woman have always been the choosers, men have had to do what they can to be chosen, this is an evolutionary thing. The reason why men are even ambitious or driven in the first place is that the men women chose, back in hunter gatherer days, were the most resourceful and physically able to protect their family. This how its been for 1000s of years, men have never complained about this even when it leads to things like wanting them to be physically imposing by having a certain height or having enough resources or being able to connect emotionally, all these things and more push men to improve and be their best to attract a woman. If its things they cant change like height they play the cards they were dealt. The alternative is going into victim mode and becoming an incel. 

From an early age we almost intuitively know we have to work in some way to get a woman, at first we're told be society we need to be really nice to them, then when that doesnt work we might overdo it with the 'badboy' persona, then (if we get there) we realise we have to actually understand women on a deeper level and not treat them as some fragile pixie and actually treat them as a human and reach a connection on that level. This is a hard, long, confusing process (not many tell you this). 

Now cut to women, for the first time in history the last 50 years have seen women nearly reach parity with men in terms of resources, opportunities, pretty much everything, girls are outperforming boys at school so this is likely to carry on. This is great of course, there should be freedom for anyone who wants to do anything (within legality). But now with the choice comes responsibility for the choice, for example back in the day it wasnt that men wanted to do all the work, they just knew if they didnt they wouldnt get a partner. They were free to make that choice to some extent but they knew that it would severely limit their options. Now im not saying thats exactly the same as women working, its not, but you have to realise that men like certain things like a woman whos caring and nurturing, who is co-operative, who doesnt compete with him (oneupmanship), who is attractive, who is fit etc. What ive seen a lot from women that complain about men is 'he needs to take me as i am', which is fine but understand that many men may not want to do that, the same way women will not take a man who hasnt developed himself in the ways ive mentioned previously. 

So there has to be some accountability here of not being what men want, which by the way is not a very long list. Success doesnt factor into a mans selection to pursue you, its really all the other factors that would put someone off. Also a lot of successful women are not even looking at Mcdonalds workers or refuse collectors, theyre not looking at 91% of men who dont earn more than them, then cut into that 9% with height, fitness, age etc. So when you get to this probably 1% of the male pool that a successful woman would want, this person has a variety of choices, plus he doesnt care about dating someone who earns as much as them, so why would he choose this woman if she doesnt match up in the areas that are important to him?

Also the guys that are put off by a womans income, this will not even be a factor until they get married and have to work out bills and things like that, in most cases i dont think a guy like this would even get past that womans selection process. If he does what will put him off are other attributes that could be synonymous with a successful woman, its not the success itself.  

 

@modmyth do you have any thoughts on this phenomena? Do you have any friends or peers etc who are in this situation?

[intotheblack]

The high flying career type of gal would just date other men in that type of circle. She could have a partnership with someone who was also living that type of life.  Or have casual relationships. 
Maybe eventually settle down and start work less hours. 

I have in my mind an image of Carrie from homeland. She’s a great example of this type of workaholic woman. 

[Preety_India]

6 minutes ago, Consept said:

That's what you took from what I said? The success doesn't matter, I've said that many times 

What I meant is that how does it matter anyway if she is not attractive to men generally, she better invest in a career or a purpose because it will fulfill her, whereas what's the point of her focusing on men if she doesn't have what it takes to attract them. And her success to men should be irrelevant, because she is anyway not attractive to them. She is better off being successful and enjoy wealth because her love life is not going to be great either way. 

 

[Consept]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

What I meant is that how does it matter anyway if she is not attractive to men generally, she better invest in a career or a purpose because it will fulfill her, whereas what's the point of her focusing on men if she doesn't have what it takes to attract them. And her success to men should be irrelevant, because she is anyway not attractive to them. She is better off being successful and enjoy wealth because her love life is not going to be great either way. 

 

Yep and thats what you call an incel mindset which is why incels are bottom of the barrel

[Raptorsin7]

2 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

What I meant is that how does it matter anyway if she is not attractive to men generally, she better invest in a career or a purpose because it will fulfill her, whereas what's the point of her focusing on men if she doesn't have what it takes to attract them. And her success to men should be irrelevant, because she is anyway not attractive to them. She is better off being successful and enjoy wealth because her love life is not going to be great either way. 

 

But for many women they could be very attractive to men they value, but rather than focus their attention on that, they instead focus on developing their careers thinking men will value it when they are ready to seek a partner 

[Raptorsin7]

This is a great video that illustrates some of the stuff we've been talking about

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

But for many women they could be very attractive to men they value, but rather than focus their attention on that, they instead focus on developing their careers thinking men will value it when they are ready to seek a partner 

When a woman seeks a partner versus her success are two separate things. She might seek a partner early on in her life and still work on her career, I don't see how a love relationship interferes with career. I had a friend who got married very young and then pursued her career in business. The timing that you use to pursue a partner should have nothing to do with career, both can be pursued at the same time, I pursuing relationships since college itself, those who keep relationships on the back burner in order to pursue a career are just doing a disservice to themselves because youth is the time when attraction is at peak and love is enjoyable, although there is nothing that says that pursuing a relationship on the side means giving up career those who do it are simply too nerdy and aren't too romantic I guess to begin with  

 

[Preety_India]

@Raptorsin7 she is a bad example. I never thought like her. I don't think a lot of women either. 

 

[Raptorsin7]

@Preety_India I just used it as example because it illustrates the problem and she's a recognizable person so it's more entertaining

[Arcangelo]

3 hours ago, intotheblack said:

It would be better for everyone if the guy said upfront he just wants sex then the girl can decide if she wants to do that or not.

Yeah, but that's not how the game works.

That will prolly just get us in jail. Just by asking someone's name you can get in trouble nowadays with the whole me too, harassment thing. I know because a girl named Scarlet called security on me at a supermarket, saying that she felt harassed by me.

All I did was ask her name. What's funny is that she did tell me her name.

Oh Scarlett you prolly watched too many feminist videos that day...

I forgive you.

 

Don't hate the player hate the game.

 

Arc