Does Success Hurt Woman's Dating Chances

[Raptorsin7]

I've been listening to a youtuber named Kevin James recently and he brought up something about modern dating that i thought was interesting, and i'm about people's thoughts on the phenomena.

According to him, woman are becoming more and more successful these days (income, education, etc) and as a result you have a group of woman who are very successful and so they refuse to date men who they consider below them. But because men don't judge woman according to their income/education etc, something I agree with, you have a situation where these woman aren't attractive in the eyes of men they find attractive, but they won't consider dating someone who is not as successful as them. 

I thought this was interesting predicament and it could generate an interesting discussion.

[intotheblack]

I guess it just means that men have to up their game even more, now that women are overtaking them. Hehe. Regarding money, it depends on the person and how they feel about the woman being more successful.  Some men would be intimidated by it or not feel as powerful in the relationship. 
Or some women may not like the idea that their partner earns less. I dunno it totally depends.  There is more stay at home fathers now, so I would assume it works for some relationships.  

Edited April 22, 2021 by intotheblack

[Raptorsin7]

9 minutes ago, intotheblack said:

I guess it just means that men have to up their game even more, now that women are overtaking them.

This is the problem. These successful woman have high standards for themselves and their partners, but the reality is like 99% of men are defective in some major way and don't fit into the high status partner class that successful woman are expecting. 

You have an entire group of woman who have effectively maneuvered themselves so they have no viable dating options. 

If a woman is earning 200k plus she has certain expectations of her partner, especially given the men she's likely to interact with professionally. But a 200k man has different expectations than a 200k woman. 

13 minutes ago, intotheblack said:

There is more stay at home fathers now, so I would assume it works for some relationships.  

How do you feel about a stay at home father and you being the primary earner? 

I've thought about this before as a man, but it is a bit disconcerting.

[intotheblack]

Just now, Raptorsin7 said:

How do you feel about a stay at home father and you being the primary earner? 

I've thought about this before as a man, but it is a bit disconcerting.

I wouldn’t like it.

I can see how it might happen during a phase of a long relationship, like if the man lost his job or something. 

but for the setup to be that I go to work full time and the man stays at home... no thanks. 

[mandyjw]

No, I'd say that only hurts the men who hold those limiting beliefs chances. 

[Raptorsin7]

@mandyjw So 99,99999% of the population

[mandyjw]

@Raptorsin7 Definitely not in my experience. 

[Raptorsin7]

1 minute ago, intotheblack said:

I wouldn’t like it.

I can see how it might happen during a phase of a long relationship, like if the man lost his job or something. 

but for the setup to be that I go to work full time and the man stays at home... no thanks. 

Yeah, if I met woman and she was fully content with being the primary earner and her husband stays at home i would find it odd. I have a few woman in my family like this, high earning successful woman with husband's who earn less, and the husbands are chidlish/boyish and they tend to be very assertive and domineering personalities 

[universe]

Happyness and relationships depend on many variables, some clear, some unclear and all constantly in flux.

Humans are very adaptable. I guess they will live...

I don't feel sorry for anyone who thinks they deserve a better parnter. It's all ego.

[intotheblack]

5 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Yeah, if I met woman and she was fully content with being the primary earner and her husband stays at home i would find it odd. I have a few woman in my family like this, high earning successful woman with husband's who earn less, and the husbands are chidlish/boyish and they tend to be very assertive and domineering personalities 

But I also don’t like the idea of me being a stay at home mom, except for the first 3 years, which are the most important for the baby.

I would still want to work and make my own money, but eventually I would work part time and the rest of the time would be for my husband, child and personal development.

I just think it would become very exhausting for me as woman to be working full time after having a baby. Plus the added stress that you are the one who has to make all the money. 

but I suppose the other thing is that less people are having kids now, so there’s that.

[Raptorsin7]

2 minutes ago, intotheblack said:

But I also don’t like the idea of me being a stay at home mom, except for the first 3 years, which are the most important for the baby.

I would still want to work and make my own money, but eventually I would work part time and the rest of the time would be for my husband, child and personal development.

What's wrong with being a stay at home mom? Wouldn't it allow more free time to pursue interests, hobbies, etc?

If money wasn't a concern would you still want to work?

My mom always complained about having to work full time while raising kids, I think it would be great if my LTR partner was content raising kids as basically their career/job

[Preety_India]

The only 2 reasons why these women are unattractive in the eyes of those men are 

A) if the woman is physically unattractive (but this is highly specific )

B) if the men surrounding these women are extremely insecure about a woman's success and find it threatening (which is not all men )

So this means the answer to the question is a No. 

Men don't find a successful woman intimidating or Kim Kardashian  would've be getting so many likes if men were intimidated by her wealth. 

The men who feel that a successful woman is unattractive merely because of her success usually tend to date down and have antiquated ideas on male female relationship dynamic. 

However such men, although not a rarity, still don't make up a majority so successful women don't have to worry. 

The opposite is rather true in modern times.  The more successful a woman is the better are her chances at winning men, but this phenomenon is largely regardless of gender. 

 

 

[mandyjw]

I don't think that many successful women are discounting men because they aren't as successful as them. 

This entire narrative is very limiting to women, and discouraging and just as limiting to men, all just to keep some insecurities alive. 

Society as a whole may confuse well-being with outward indicators of success but it has nothing to do with women being at fault for not "staying in their places." Yuck. 

[Raptorsin7]

@mandyjw

2 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

I don't think that many successful women are discounting men because they aren't as successful as them. 

 

You don't think a woman who earn's 200k a year will have likely have a negative view towards men who earn less than her, let's say 100k or less?

I think the issue is men and woman find different characteristics desirable, and although a success greatly enhances a man's desirability, when a achieves similar levels of success it doesn't affect their desirability in the eyes of men to the same degree.

5 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

This entire narrative is very limiting to women, and discouraging and just as limiting to men, all just to keep some insecurities alive. 

 

What are the insecurities? 

I think it's more a description of a modern dating problem. I'm assuming many woman want men who they judge as equal to their value, but as a result of modern dynamics both gender's assessment of their own value is skewed

[Raptorsin7]

8 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

The only 2 reasons why these women are unattractive in the eyes of those men are 

I'm not saying that men are viewing woman's success as unattractive. I'm saying that woman are becoming very financially successful and as a result they expect men of their same financial status, but the men aren't valuing their success the way woman judge a man's success and so you have a mismatch and a problem.

 

[intotheblack]

19 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

What's wrong with being a stay at home mom? Wouldn't it allow more free time to pursue interests, hobbies, etc?

If money wasn't a concern would you still want to work?

My mom always complained about having to work full time while raising kids, I think it would be great if my LTR partner was content raising kids as basically their career/job

If I had enough money of course I wouldn’t work a day job.. Also when I say work part time I meant doing something with my life purpose. 

my mam stayed home and my dad controlled all the finances, now she’s in a messy situation because she didn’t have her own money. 

I don’t want to depend that much on someone else for money. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by intotheblack

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, intotheblack said:

my mam stayed home and my dad controlled all the finances, now she’s in a messy situation because she didn’t have her own money. 

I don’t want to depend that much on someone else for money. 

Yeah that makes sense why you would be concerned.

That is a very tough situation to be in with respect to finances. I think that's why it's important to very trusting of your partner if you're going to put yourself in a compromised situation like that.

If you a person expects to have a self sustaining career it's very difficult to also commit fully to having a family. I have family members where both spouses are very successful, but the wife luckily has a 9-5 city job, and they rely on a nanny and I know my aunt feels guilty about not spending more time with her kids. And they don't need her income at all, she earns about 1/4 my uncle's salary

[mandyjw]

Just now, Raptorsin7 said:

@mandyjw

You don't think a woman who earn's 200k a year will have likely have a negative view towards men who earn less than her, let's say 100k or less?

No. Especially if he doesn't. I think there are people who have their priorities and true desires all mixed up and there people who are clear about what they want and monetary success has nothing to do with it. We could each easily find examples to prove our cases. 

4 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

What are the insecurities? 

Unworthiness. The belief that I must PROVE and show my worth in some outward manner to FEEL worthy of someone's love, or to feel worthy on my own at all.  I don't think you realize how many women struggle with feeling unworthy and insecure of being supported by their partner, even when they are raising children and taking care of everything else. It's all because of this societal narrative that success=money. It just doesn't vary that much from gender to gender anymore. We've lived in a society where men are thought of as providers and women are thought of as the nurturing ones. It's not the 1950's anymore. There are all these old feelings and beliefs lingering around messing everyone up though. They are contagious if you have a low immune system. *cough* *cough* a feeling of unworthiness. 

Having a rich partner could be JUST as attractive to a man as it is to some women, or it could also trigger insecurities. Or it could not matter at all, and just be a fact.  It's all just the narrative you buy into. 

[Raptorsin7]

12 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

We've lived in a society where men are thought of as providers and women are thought of as the nurturing ones.

I think this based on the woman's relationship with their children. I gave the example of my aunt above i think this is a real issue that isn't simply negative society.

12 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Having a rich partner could be JUST as attractive to a man as it is to some women

I can't speak for all men so i'm curious about other people's thoughts on this. But i'm assuming for the majority of men a woman's wealth isn't what they find attractive, and I bet some version of the opposite of that is true for woman.

Speaking for myself I don't value a woman's income/success at all and I don't think i'm atpyical for men my age

[Parththakkar12]

I would want a competent woman if I have a role for her in my endeavors. The money itself would not particularly attract me. If I were to create a replacement for the patriarchy, a system that replaces the patriarchy, this would be it. A system in which I take on the responsibility of providing but I involve her in my endeavors, so I value her competence and she's also playing an active role in creating the money, so she isn't completely dependent on me (which is the objection feminists have to the patriarchy).