Does Success Hurt Woman's Dating Chances

[Raptorsin7]

@Consept @Emerald

What is the definition of a compatible partner to woman?

If someone has moderate standards it seems inescapable that there will be a shortage.

I also don't think that men being intimated by a womans success affects dating to the same degree as a woman overvaluing her own success and then claiming men are intimated to comfort themselves 

[freejoy]

I would be happy for my woman if she made more money than I do.

She might write a best selling book.

Look at Katy Perry one could say she's a success and she makes a ton of money. She seems feminine, although I don't know for sure.

Men have a hard life, pushing, conquering, fighting. They have to develop their feminine side also.

If a woman goes out tries to enter the mans world it will throw her off balance. Women are natrually a nurturing energy. 

She needs to relax adjust the flower arrangement. Create a home for her family. 

Let the man go out and fight the wild animals. So she doesn't have to worry about anything. He can do the driving.

Not that he is demanding or controlling at all. He listens and cares for his family. 

 

[Preety_India]

3 minutes ago, freejoy said:

I would be happy for my woman if she made more money than I do.

She might write a best selling book.

Look at Katy Perry one could say she's a success and she makes a ton of money. She seems feminine, although I don't know for sure.

Men have a hard life, pushing, conquering, fighting. They have to develop their feminine side also.

If a woman goes out tries to enter the mans world it will throw her off balance. Women are natrually a nurturing energy. 

She needs to relax adjust the flower arrangement. Create a home for her family. 

Let the man go out and fight the wild animals. So she doesn't have to worry about anything. He can do the driving.

Not that he is demanding or controlling at all. He listens and cares for his family. 

 

Yes I agree with this 

 

[Emerald]

15 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Consept @Emerald

What is the definition of a compatible partner to woman?

If someone has moderate standards it seems inescapable that there will be a shortage.

I also don't think that men being intimated by a womans success affects dating to the same degree as a woman overvaluing her own success and then claiming men are intimated to comfort themselves 

It depends on the woman as to who is compatible. Women tend to look for their match. There's a sense of feeling like you've found your soul's twin.

But what I know from my perspective is that, if a man is bothered by my skills or success, then that man is not for me. That's my entire point. There's no benefit to considering the proclivities of a man that I wouldn't be interested in to begin with.

So, beyond the theoretical "men are like this, women are like that" perspective, I can tell you that success and focusing on my individuation and career path have never been anything but a wonderful tool for attracting compatible partners who care about me in a multi-faceted way and weeding out partners that are not compatible.

What must be understood is that success from a woman's perspective doesn't have much to do with abundance of options. That's a male perspective thing. 

Success for a woman comes from the ability to find a partner who is compatible and capable of deep relationship. And if you've developed no particularity/individuality and don't have your own thing, this leaves you in a space of being interchangeable with other women and attracting men who see women as interchangeable.... and thus unable and unwilling to truly penetrate you. 

But this thread is a perfect example of how men generally tend to give terrible dating advice to women. They tend to advise women about what they think will attract and keep a man as opposed to what really attracts and keeps a man.

Most men would guess it's something like maxing out on physical attractiveness or being feminine. These things are great in the attraction phase. But only developing these things make you totally fungible. If you want to really attract and keep a man, you have to individuate yourself and find a man who is equally individuated. And education and life-purpose and personal development is all part of attracting (and becoming attracted to) the right kind of guy.

In order to attract "the one", you have to be "the one". (Mind you, I don't believe in the one in any absolute sense).

And the individuation path (which includes career) is the way you become the one. 

[Raptorsin7]

2 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But this thread is a perfect example of how men generally tend to give terrible dating advice to women. They tend to advise women about what they think will attract and keep a man as opposed to what really attracts and keeps a man.

Almost all the men on this thread have said the same thing about what they value, and no one said they value a woman's career highly. 

3 minutes ago, Emerald said:

And the individuation path (which includes career) is the way you become the one. 

But no man here is saying they value this in a partner. 

I think it's woman who are giving the misleading advice in this thread tbh

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Almost all the men on this thread have said the same thing about what they value, and no one said they value a woman's career highly.

And just because some men on this thread said that, does it become the gold standard?

What a ridiculous thing to say?

 

[Raptorsin7]

@Preety_India It's the only metric we have to go on about men's preference. Maybe men here are the exceptions and there's an entire population of high quality men who want successful, career driven woman. But i doubt it.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Raptorsin7

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Maybe men here are the exceptions and there's an entire population of high quality men who want successful, career driven woman. But i doubt it

I'm not saying that they want a successful woman. Maybe they are just okay with it or don't see it as a problem. I mean as long as the relationship is going good for them, why will they worry about anything else?

 

[Emerald]

8 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Almost all the men on this thread have said the same thing about what they value, and no one said they value a woman's career highly. 

But no man here is saying they value this in a partner. 

I think it's woman who are giving the misleading advice in this thread tbh

That's exactly my point. What I've found is that attracting a compatible partner who's worth the effort is all about individuation and growing one's self.

If women followed your dating/relationship advice around not focusing on career success, they'd end up with a low quality and incompatible partner and stifled individuation.

But if women follow my advice and developed themselves fully, they'd be more apt to find a high quality partner who supports their individuation.

There's no need to cater to men who aren't compatible. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Emerald

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Emerald said:

There's no need to cater to men who aren't compatible. 

Haha that was like the golden line!

 

[Preety_India]

I like the idea of individuation and attracting a compatible partner based on your growth. Makes perfect sense. 

 

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Emerald said:

If women followed your dating/relationship advice around not focus on career success, they'd end up with a low quality and incompatible partner and stifled individuation.

My advice for a woman who wants a high quality partner is to focus on developing those traits that high quality men find desirable. I'm not saying a woman shouldn't develop herself, i just don't think that having a successful career and being success oriented in a conventional sense is a key part of development.

I like to think of this stuff in terms of how I'd teach my daughter one day, and I would not tell them that their career is what's necessary to have a fulfilling life when they grow up. 

If a woman values a LTR and a family I would hope they don't follow what you're saying

 

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Raptorsin7 said:

 

 

If a woman values a LTR and a family I would hope they don't follow what you're saying

 

The problem is that you are trying to make it look like one is better than the other. However a woman can still value an LTR and a family whilst having  a good career and if you don't see that in a woman, it simply means that she isn't capable enough. But this is not to say that one should take precedence over another, both can go hand in hand and create a fulfilling life 

 

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Raptorsin7 said:

My advice for a woman who wants a high quality partner is to focus on developing those traits that high quality men find desirable. I'm not saying a woman shouldn't develop herself, i just don't think that having a successful career and being success oriented in a conventional sense is a key part of development.

I like to think of this stuff in terms of how I'd teach my daughter one day, and I would not tell them that their career is what's necessary to have a fulfilling life when they grow up. 

If a woman values a LTR and a family I would hope they don't follow what you're saying

I value a LTR and a family... in fact, I have them. And I've only ever found that my kids (9 and 6) are very interested and inspired by what I do. And it sends a good message to my daughter especially that the sky is the limit in terms of what's possible for her.

[Raptorsin7]

14 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I value a LTR and a family... in fact, I have them. And I've only ever found that my kids (9 and 6) are very interested and inspired by what I do. And it sends a good message to my daughter especially that the sky is the limit in terms of what's possible for her.

But if you value a LTR and a family then you have to ensure that you have develop those aspects that will contribute to securing a successful LTR and family.

As a man I'm very conscious of what it will take to create a successful family and have a good partner. Virtually everything in my life is built around that eventual goal. 

I think as woman embark on early life path's that have historically been occupied solely by men they are being a fed a message that fails to account for the fact that many, if not most, modern woman want a valuable partner for a relationship and family but when you start talking about what that will require of woman, men get accused of being sexist, msygonistic, woman hating etc

[Consept]

48 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Most men would guess it's something like maxing out on physical attractiveness or being feminine. These things are great in the attraction phase. But only developing these things make you totally fungible. If you want to really attract and keep a man, you have to individuate yourself and find a man who is equally individuated. And education and life-purpose and personal development is all part of attracting (and becoming attracted to) the right kind of guy.

I kind of agree, but to really be honest all the things you mention like individuation, education etc are things we end up liking because we like you. If we like you, we accept whatever about you, we don't like you specifically because you are into personal development or into fitness, there's just something we like about you. The foundation of which isn't about maxing out on looks or being feminine (I don't know what a maxed out feminine person would even be) but there are a certain set of qualities that most guys want, (that I've mentioned) if they had a choice. However this is the foundation of attraction, then other things as you mentioned, are built on top of this. 

In terms of keeping a man, if I was to give advice to women, I would say don't compete with him, don't try and change him - if there's something you really can't stand and can't get passed then maybe move on, co-operate with him - be on the same team, add value to his life in some way, take a genuine interest in what he's interested in, have a high level of respect for him. If you don't feel like you can do these things then it probably won't work or you'll think it's working but he'll be unhappy underneath 

[Raptorsin7]

@Consept In your view, what is the end game of a successful, socioeconomically, 30+ plus woman who expects a man of equal value but is struggling to find a partner.

I find it hard to believe a person can just drop their standards dramatically over a short period and be content, but the i don't know how else these woman will partners

I think it would be really interesting to see an entire generation of woman who end up finding partners that are submissive and dependent on them, and you have a complete reversal of gender roles in this area haha

[Consept]

58 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Consept In your view, what is the end game of a successful, socioeconomically, 30+ plus woman who expects a man of equal value but is struggling to find a partner.

I find it hard to believe a person can just drop their standards dramatically over a short period and be content, but the i don't know how else these woman will partners

I think it would be really interesting to see an entire generation of woman who end up finding partners that are submissive and dependent on them, and you have a complete reversal of gender roles in this area haha

Numbers wise, there just won't be enough men to give every woman in this bracket a partner that they would accept. 

So they have a few options, one is of course being single forever (if they always get what they want this will be tough), dropping their own standards and picking through intuition or love or being single but having boyfriends (sugar mummy style). 

This generation is unlucky in that they have success or at least opportunity for it, but they also evolutionarily speaking want someone equal or preferably higher status. So they're stuck in two worlds. Equality in this sense is great but it means that they also might have to take on the man's traditional role and be the breadwinner and head of the household, I can't really see them wanting to do it but it looks like it's kinda going that way. So yeah you could start to see a lot of traditional gender reversed relationships where the man is the stay at home dad. The other thing of course is men could get really disenfranchised with this setup, you're already seeing things like mgtow. Men always accepted their role now a vast amount are being made redundant. I don't know exactly where it will go but definitely the dynamics have are irreversibly changed. 

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Consept said:

Numbers wise, there just won't be enough men to give every woman in this bracket a partner that they would accept. 

So they have a few options, one is of course being single forever (if they always get what they want this will be tough), dropping their own standards and picking through intuition or love or being single but having boyfriends (sugar mummy style). 

This generation is unlucky in that they have success or at least opportunity for it, but they also evolutionarily speaking want someone equal or preferably higher status. So they're stuck in two worlds. Equality in this sense is great but it means that they also might have to take on the man's traditional role and be the breadwinner and head of the household, I can't really see them wanting to do it but it looks like it's kinda going that way. So yeah you could start to see a lot of traditional gender reversed relationships where the man is the stay at home dad. The other thing of course is men could get really disenfranchised with this setup, you're already seeing things like mgtow. Men always accepted their role now a vast amount are being made redundant. I don't know exactly where it will go but definitely the dynamics have are irreversibly changed. 

Most successful women settle for men who earn less than them. 

[Preety_India]

5 minutes ago, Consept said:

but they also evolutionarily speaking want someone equal or preferably higher status

What does that mean?