Does Success Hurt Woman's Dating Chances

[Byun Sean]

4 minutes ago, Emerald said:

That said, as a mother who very much enjoys pursuing my life purpose and creative/intellectual pursuits, I wouldn't be compatible with a man who has that preference. So, I would never feel inclined to sacrifice my personal goals for a relationship to a man with those preferences. Nor would any woman who wants to pursue her own life-purpose/career.

So, if Arc's point was to discourage his step-sister's career goals because it would get in the way of her ability to find a partner, then he'd be incorrect. She'd just be appealing to a different type of man... and many men in that category aren't just preferring that traditional dynamic. Many of them are threatened by female agency and power. 

Thanks for sharing this.  I learned something new here. 

 

In the end its all about being your authentic self and then finding a partner that will fit well with that.

[Preety_India]

3 minutes ago, Consept said:

This man can't now say 'women are just scared of a caring, nurturing man, they're threatened, that's why no one wants to marry me', this would be a ridiculous stance but this seems to be the stance people have no problem taking. 

The context you're ascribing is not a woman's fault. How we or modern society reacts to men is a reaction to how we as women have been in the past in terms of historical context.. 

If I have to give you an example  in terms of historical context, I will describe a situation where if black men use the N word among themselves however it is not considered offensive, however if a white man uses the same word, it's considered offensive and for good reason, because there is a historical context of racism, slavery and oppression associated with it. In a similar way, when men say that they don't want to be with a successful woman, there is a historical context where women for centuries were discouraged from financial independence and success so it feels like he is reinforcing the old patriarchal  stereotypes even if he means well however when a woman says that she doesn't find his prospect or offer appealing, its perfectly understandable why she wants to value her financial independence over a relationship with such a man. 

 

[Raptorsin7]

22 minutes ago, Emerald said:

his step-sister's career goals because it would get in the way of her ability to find a partner, then he'd be incorrect.

That's not incorrect though. 

I think there are many modern woman who find themselves in a situation, mid 30's or higher, where they spent so much time focusing on their career and now that they wish to pursue relationships and a family they have a very limited pool of partners to choose form.

22 minutes ago, Emerald said:

She'd just be appealing to a different type of man... and many men in that category aren't just preferring that traditional dynamic. Many of them are threatened by female agency and power. 

You are a speaking to a population of men that is very tiny. How many men would be compatible for a highly successful career oriented woman who desires a man of similar socio-economic value?

Edited April 22, 2021 by Raptorsin7

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Byun Sean said:

Thanks for sharing this.  I learned something new here. 

 

In the end its all about being your authentic self and then finding a partner that will fit well with that.

Exactly. 

You eventually find the people where you are at. If you are successful you find other successful people as well. 

Telling women that they won't find men if they get successful is like there is no men who value success but successful people find each other if they want to. 

 

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

How many men would be compatible for a highly successful career oriented woman who desires a man of similar socio-economic value?

There are so many successful men, there is absolutely no shortage. In fact there is a huge shortage of successful women because most women don't feel empowered enough due to family and socio economic situations to keep pursuing their life goals so there is a need to have more balance on the female front and that's why we have women empowerment programs. 

 

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Preety_India said:

There are so many successful men, there is absolutely no shortage. In fact there is a huge shortage of successful women because most women don't feel empowered enough due to family and socio economic situations to keep pursuing their life goals so there is a need to have more balance on the female front and that's why we have women empowerment programs. 

 

I don't think this is true. I think it's much harder for a successful woman to find a suitable partner compared to a successful man.

3 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Exactly. 

You eventually find the people where you are at. If you are successful you find other successful people as well. 

Telling women that they won't find men if they get successful is like there is no men who value success but successful people find each other if they want to. 

 

You are free to believe whatever you want, but just because someone sais something that comforts you doesn't mean it's true or helpful in the long run

[Consept]

2 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

The context you're ascribing is not a woman's fault. How we or modern society reacts to men is a reaction to how we as women have been in the past in terms of historical context.. 

How is it mens fault? Men are in that same context that you speak of, do you think men could ever make that choice in the past to not slave away all day to look after their family? It's no ones 'fault' it just is what it is and everyone has to play the cards they're dealt. 

Your position seems to be 'women aren't attracted to a guy that wants to be looked after by a woman because of how they've been throughout history. However men are wrong and are at fault for who they're attracted to despite how they've been throughout history'. 

Can you not see the incongruence with this position? I won't go as far as saying it's sexist but it's definitely not an equal view 

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Consept said:

Your position seems to be 'women aren't attracted to a guy that wants to be looked after by a woman because of how they've been throughout history.

This was never my position. I don't know how this was being implied. I'm only saying that if a woman wants her financial independence, it's her ideal and goal and given historical context it will be more so, it's kinda difficult to understand why a man would have a problem with a woman wanting her own space in life. 

 

[Emerald]

3 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

That's not incorrect though. 

I think there are many modern woman who find themselves in a situation, mid 30's or higher, where they spent so much time focusing on their career and now that they wish to pursue relationships and a family they have a very limited pool of partners to choose form.

You are a speaking to a population of men that is very tiny. How many men would be compatible for a highly successful career oriented woman who desires a man of similar socio-economic value?

The issue you're speaking of doesn't really have to do with the career. It has to do with a certain orientation to dating and relationships. 

Women who are out of touch with their feminine side and have lost sight of their intuition will not be able to let organic attraction happen. And so, many women end up in a space of trying to make dating and relationship decisions with their minds instead of with their hearts. This is a big problem in the current era. 

So, the career isn't the thing that gets in the way. It's having a laundry-list approach to relationships that's disconnected from the emotions.

As I've said, I've always been a career-oriented woman and I've never had an issue finding a man who I love that loves me back just as I am. And all the men I've ever been with (even back to my first serious relationship at 16) have found my art and insight skills impressive and have been very interested in the career aspect of my life. 

But also, keep in mind, in relation to the "women desiring a men of higher socio-economic value"...  I've never looked specifically for men who out-earn me. I don't really care as long as a man is contributing in equal measure in terms of effort. 

Also, men are not really scarce or picky. So, there's really no need to sacrifice your goals so that you can find one. The best way to find a compatible partner is to show your peacock feathers in terms of looks, personality traits, lifestyle, and skills. And you become a beacon for like-minded men and incompatible men alike. 

[Byun Sean]

Ok lets say I'm a woman in her 30's or whatever who is financially successful and career driven.

 

If I'm financially successful in my career and I want to work on my relationship life instead with a man for instance, I have the choice 

to work LESS hours and put more time into a relationship.

 

In fact if I was LESS successful I would struggle with relationship life because I would have to spend all my time in making sure I pay the bills.

 

The stigma that successful people are all 80 hour workaholics is not always the case. Successful person just means you do well to provide for yourself

doing what you love.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Consept]

7 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

There are so many successful men, there is absolutely no shortage.

This is not true depending on what the woman earns of course. If you take america, a successful woman let's say is on 6 figures which is what Emerald said. The amount of men making similar is 9% of men in America, so if you're criteria includes them earning the same or more you've cut out 91% of all men. Then when you factor most men earning this will be 50 plus as it takes time to get to this level, if you're early 30s and would like a guy under 40 this is gonna be a really small pool. Also as I see on dating sites a lot of women will have other criteria, over 6 foot, in shape etc. This shrinks things even more. 

The point is because of your criteria that you're free to choose, your selection is smaller. If men don't have the same criteria then they have a wider selection. 

[Consept]

7 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

This was never my position. I don't know how this was being implied. I'm only saying that if a woman wants her financial independence, it's her ideal and goal and given historical context it will be more so, it's kinda difficult to understand why a man would have a problem with a woman wanting her own space in life. 

OK apologies for mis-representing you in that case. But men don't have a problem with it, she can have her own financial independence. The issue is women think it makes them more attractive so their expectations of what they can attract go up, but for most men it makes no difference. 

Likewise a man can think being a caring, nurturing guy who wants to be looked after by a woman will make him more attractive and women might even support his view, however in reality he won't get much action. 

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Consept said:

This is not true depending on what the woman earns of course. If you take america, a successful woman let's say is on 6 figures which is what Emerald said. The amount of men making similar is 9% of men in America, so if you're criteria includes them earning the same or more you've cut out 91% of all men. Then when you factor most men earning this will be 50 plus as it takes time to get to this level, if you're early 30s and would like a guy under 40 this is gonna be a really small pool. Also as I see on dating sites a lot of women will have other criteria, over 6 foot, in shape etc. This shrinks things even more. 

The point is because of your criteria that you're free to choose, your selection is smaller. If men don't have the same criteria then they have a wider selection. 

I was just talking about the laundry-list problem above. 

Lots of women tend to get into a more intellectual way of orienting to relationship as opposed to a more organic heart-centered orientation to relationship.

So, they start looking for men who objectively fit certain criteria. But that's not where the magic is that bonds two people together. And it isn't the way female attraction naturally works. Female attraction is incredibly intuitive and particular... not objective, rational, and general. 

So, it's not really the career thing that holds women back from relationship. It's more about that non-emotional orientation to relationship prospects. But that's a Stage Orange issue... and women in careers emerges in Stage Orange. So, I could see how these things are conflated. 

But the real issue is picking with the mind based on a laundry list of qualities, instead of with the heart. 

[Preety_India]

4 minutes ago, Consept said:

This is not true depending on what the woman earns of course. If you take america, a successful woman let's say is on 6 figures which is what Emerald said. The amount of men making similar is 9% of men in America, so if you're criteria includes them earning the same or more you've cut out 91% of all men.

But success is not just defined by income. I might find someone successful if they are a good nurse or a good professor and I have absolutely no problem dating a guy who earns less than me. In fact I mostly dated men who earned less than me. Although one of them did have a problem with my earning, even though my earning is that of a factory worker in America and still he had a problem even though I was paying his bills. The thing is why do I even need such a man who is so insecure about me  making more than him. If I'm happy with a man and our finances are good then how much he earns in relative to my earnings is not my concern at all. I wasn't ever hunting for highly successful men in terms of Money, because that isn't a priority as long as we both make enough to pay bills and add to savings. However I would want him to be successful in terms of shared interests, life goals, passion, purpose, something that he is doing that makes me feel like he is on the same plane as me when it comes sharing life goals. It would be utterly disappointing that I have high ambitions and he doesn't.. 

However such men who are passionate about what they do and earn a decent income are plenty. 

I dont see the shortage 

 

[soos_mite_ah]

37 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

If you are a 35 year old incredibly successful woman who is having a hard time finding a suitable partner you would care. And if you are a young woman in her early 20's wondering how to spend the next 5-10 years of their life i think they would care too

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/women-happy-children-spouse-partner-relationship-unmarried-a8931816.html

Childfree unmarried women tend to be both happier and healthier statistically speaking. 

[Raptorsin7]

@soos_mite_ah That's interesting. I would be very curious what goes into those stats.

Isn't that circumstance the nightmare scenario for many woman?

 

[intotheblack]

58 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Isn't that circumstance the nightmare scenario for many woman?

Many women don’t wish to have children.  
you have kids young, then what? Your husband tires of you and goes in search of a younger woman, and the kids are older. so now you are left without a career or money and have to start your life from scratch in your 40s/50s

to me that is a nightmare scenario. 

Makes more sense to first have your career, life skills and be independent, then bring kids into the mix.

personally I would rather live my life and have kids a bit later, if I get too old then so be it, but I’m not too worried about that my mam was 38 when she had me and 42 when she had my sister.  
 

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by intotheblack

[Raptorsin7]

3 minutes ago, intotheblack said:

Makes more sense to first have your career and be independent, then bring kids into the mix.

Do you have any concerns about waiting too long and not being able to find a compatible partner after focusing on your own career?

Would you be content being single and successful and not having a family?

[intotheblack]

@Raptorsin7  

No, I’m in already a compatible relationship.  
I’m not a stage orange career driven woman in the corporate world btw. But I’m self sufficient, independent and have my own skill sets. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by intotheblack

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Would you be content being single and successful and not having a family?

If you asked me that question, I would be completely content being single and successful (successful doesn't even matter as long as I can do what I'm passionate about, I don't think it's counted as success by conventional society, regardless ) for the rest of my life without a family. 

I don't think a woman's greatest fear is not getting a man, as many men would like to believe, I think its being stuck in a bad marriage or being a single mother without a job or income and having the responsibility of feeding children.