Why is making money seen as bad for spiritual minded people?

[Hello from Russia]

15 minutes ago, jimwell said:

"It is easier for a camel to pass through a needle hole than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." - Jesus

"If you really want to follow me, go and sell all your properties and give all the money to the poor. Then follow me." - Jesus

A genuine, spiritual person is naturally NOT interested in money. But many try to earn it anyway because they need to. 

@jimwell You severely lack the context of that time dude

Edited April 20, 2021 by Hello from Russia

[Wilhelm44]

1 hour ago, Consept said:

Interesting, so do you think passages like this have led to money being looked at negatively by some or what is your interpretation? 

I also think the classic quote from the bible 'the love of money is the root of all evil' has probably had an effect particularly as its often mis-translated as 'money is the root of all evil' 

I think what it boils down to is that a lot of spiritual people still see spirituality as something separate from, and more lofty than the practical world of money etc.  In other words there is still some kind of internal split. Resistance to money can have many roots, but the ultimate cure is still self love.

[jimwell]

47 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

@jimwell You severely lack the context of that time dude

The truth offended you so now you are gaslighting me after gaslighting your own self. You are one of those followers of Jesus who bowed their heads down in disappointment because deep in their hearts, they knew they could not do what Jesus told them to do. 

[Hello from Russia]

33 minutes ago, jimwell said:

The truth offended you so now you are gaslighting me after gaslighting your own self. You are one of those followers of Jesus who bowed their heads down in disappointment because deep in their hearts, they knew they could not do what Jesus told them to do. 

Such an epistemic disaster... 

[Consept]

2 hours ago, jimwell said:

 

"If you really want to follow me, go and sell all your properties and give all the money to the poor. Then follow me." - Jesus

A genuine, spiritual person is naturally NOT interested in money. But many try to earn it anyway because they need to. 

This is a slight misquote, the quote is actually -"If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

Notice he said 'if you want to be perfect'. His teaching has always been man can not be perfect only God can. So it doesn't seem as if he's saying sell your possessions. This misunderstanding , as @Wilhelm44pointed out, is part of the reason why so many have an aversion to money or think it's anti spiritual. 

There is also debate on the camel quote, a lot of people say he was talking about either a rope going through the eye of a needle or theres pathway that goes between to large cliff faces, which is a narrow passage, and so it's hard for a camel to get through. The key thing is that both are not impossible, it can just be harder to do. 

But of course I might be wrong, but the point is that teaching are open to interpretation so it can become troublesome when they are followed as the highest truth, especially when they appear to give rules on how humans should think and feel. 

 

[Lyubov]

quite simply: spiritual ego

[jimwell]

4 hours ago, Consept said:

This is a slight misquote, the quote is actually -"If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

Notice he said 'if you want to be perfect'. His teaching has always been man can not be perfect only God can. So it doesn't seem as if he's saying sell your possessions. This misunderstanding , as @Wilhelm44pointed out, is part of the reason why so many have an aversion to money or think it's anti spiritual. 

There is also debate on the camel quote, a lot of people say he was talking about either a rope going through the eye of a needle or theres pathway that goes between to large cliff faces, which is a narrow passage, and so it's hard for a camel to get through. The key thing is that both are not impossible, it can just be harder to do. 

But of course I might be wrong, but the point is that teaching are open to interpretation so it can become troublesome when they are followed as the highest truth, especially when they appear to give rules on how humans should think and feel. 

 

Followers of Christianity who were deeply threatened by what Jesus said perverted his teachings and tried to frame it in ways to make them less threatening. Don't be distracted by the perversions. And don't be stuck with figuring out what exactly Jesus meant.

In the end, the genuine spiritual humans love and prioritize God, Wisdom, Truth, Righteousness, Honesty, Beauty, and Love. All other things such as money, business, sex, fame, etc. are perceived as secondary or even completely worthless. What did Jesus, Rhamana Maharshi, Buddha, Lao Tzu, and other deeply spiritual humans value? 

So, if you see a person claiming to be very spiritual but clearly demonstrates love and priority for the secondary things, know that they are self-deceived (which also means they deceive others). I am not saying the secondary things have no value or not worth doing. I myself love and do them. But deep in my heart, I know what the most beautiful and important things in life are. And in general, or as a whole, I prioritize them over all other things.  

Edited April 20, 2021 by jimwell
needed to add Rhamana Maharshi

[Hello from Russia]

@jimwell How do you know what is perversion and what is not?

[Consept]

9 hours ago, jimwell said:

Followers of Christianity who were deeply threatened by what Jesus said perverted his teachings and tried to frame it in ways to make them less threatening. Don't be distracted by the perversions.

This is the problem, who is the arbiter of what Jesus teachings are perversions? Is it you? 

9 hours ago, jimwell said:

And don't be stuck with figuring out what exactly Jesus meant.

Im not stuck on that, you brought up the quotes to prove your point but when i offered the full quote or context of it, you dismissed it and said the teachings are wrong or perverted, this is close, if not is, a fundamentalist mindset. You have some truth in what you say but the way youve said it is clearly not the best. 

9 hours ago, jimwell said:

All other things such as money, business, sex, fame, etc. are perceived as secondary or even completely worthless.

This is fine in that yes material doesnt compare with being, its not even close. However to say its worthless is a poor take, for most people to even get to being or spirituality there needs to be a foundation that allows it through resources but also through relationships, through experience of the material, through purpose, through contribution to society. It would be very difficult for an undeveloped, homeless person to become enlightened, thats the other side of the coin.

Oshos views are quite interesting on the subject -

 

[LfcCharlie4]

Id say truly “spiritual” people know money is simply a tool & a medium of exchange, and as others said it can be earned & spent in both conscious & unconscious ways, and as you’ve already said this can be said for a lot of things in life. 
 

You can have sex with your partner to express the love & connection between you two or you can manipulate girls into sleeping with you by lying to them, see how different each situation is? 
 

Also, I’d add, living in our current society doesn’t help. For example things like the 08 crash where corrupt banks & bankers were bailed out as the average person suffered doesn’t help people’s beliefs on the matter. 
 

However, a lot of it comes down to just digging deeper than surface level, actually learning about money, abundance & conscious wealth creation and then reprogramming Those negative beliefs, Leo already has an episode on conscious marketing but maybe @Nahm or Leo could create a YouTube video on this topic to help clear it up for members on the forum who are struggling with it?

Tbh, it was one of my main dilemmas a few years ago when I first started “seeking”, it’s easy to fall into toxic beliefs around money & spirituality, so I completely understand how it happens. 
 

But, with the right teachings (conscious creation, LoA & Austrian economics are good places to start) the mindset is easily adapted to start feeling good about money, all the good it can do for yourself & those around you & actually start creating wealth consciously, and then Money can be realised for what it is & you then have a much healthier relationship to it than the average person. 

[Rigel]

If by "spiritually minded" you mean stage green fools then yeah?

[Wilhelm44]

 

[Consept]

2 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Also, I’d add, living in our current society doesn’t help. For example things like the 08 crash where corrupt banks & bankers were bailed out as the average person suffered doesn’t help people’s beliefs on the matter. 

Thanks for the share my bro, I agree with pretty much everything you said. Yes current society is what it is, but i think what underpins what youve said is that those that can are taking advantage where they can. If we think of money as basically an exchange of value, there are some that are trying to take as much value as possible whilst giving very little. The example of the 08 crash is interesting because the banks were claiming they were giving value but in reality they were squeezing value out of the poorest people, its particularly underhanded because they were dangling the idea of owning your own house underneath them. But this is why its so important to understand money because you can see where people are trying to give you less value a mile away. 

btw and im guessing youll disagree, but this is why i think cryptos, at least some are going to have problems, because there isnt actually inherent value, its just people trying to get rich. You could argue cash is just as valueless but its aim isnt really to make people rich its just a way of spending value. Cryptos essentially are trying to replace or at least offer an alternative to cash but most are not seeing it like that atm. Also it would be unlikely that you get so many coins being used as a way of exchanging value in the future, likely one or two might but not all, so i think eventually if the value isnt taken out, a lot of people will lose out. 

2 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

However, a lot of it comes down to just digging deeper than surface level, actually learning about money, abundance & conscious wealth creation and then reprogramming Those negative beliefs, Leo already has an episode on conscious marketing but maybe @Nahm or Leo could create a YouTube video on this topic to help clear it up for members on the forum who are struggling with it?

Yeah this is needed because the poverty mindset is really ingrained and i think its really holding up a lot of peoples progression.

 

2 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Austrian economics

What is this about?

 

1 hour ago, Wilhelm44 said:

 

Great video and thats what conscious business is about, setting up win/win situations and deals. If i offer you something you want why would you not go for it?

Edited April 21, 2021 by Consept

[LfcCharlie4]

@Consept Nah you're 100% right regarding Cryptos, there's soooooooooo many shitty projects you need to be careful of, hence why you should only ever invest in coins / blockchains with an actual real world solve- e.g. Theta fixing video stream issues & VRA fixing the issue of Fake views etc etc. But, there's literally a shitcoin called $Ass being shilled atm just because the creator said they'll do an ass reveal at $69M market cap lmao

In terms of Cryptos that will become actual Mediums of Exchange, unless BTC sort out their Fees & issues, it definitely won't be Bitcoin, there's SO many better mediums of exchange.

Agree regarding everything else, especially the Poverty mindset, then when you're stuck there you will fall prey to Ideologies that don't call you out on your shit basically.

Its a really interesting Economic School that is very different to mainstream Keynesian economics with heavy Gov intervention, it won't be very popular on here as its very much not left leaning lmao, if you want the basics just buy the book 'Economics In One Lesson' by Henry Hazlitt, its kinda mad how we aren't taught this stuff in school (both sides I mean), well at least in the UK. 

@Wilhelm44  Exactly, that's 'True' conscious business, and thankfully, we are seeing more & more of this, albeit it'll take a while to reach the 'top tiers' of society, but eventually as more people demand it, it'll naturally happen

[Wilhelm44]

I would also add that having any sense of guilt towards one's past, also creates a resistance to receiving money. And spiritually minded people tend to be experts at carrying guilt around, even if in a very subtle form 

[freejoy]

"A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things."

~Ecclesiastes 10:19

 

 

[universe]

Who are dis spiritual people going around judging everything to be good or bad? 

Like with all material things they won't fulfil you, so best not to get too obsessed about them and instead focus on the good sauce.

[diamondpenguin]

On 4/20/2021 at 1:35 AM, Consept said:

Just something I've been thinking about. So there seems to be quite a negative connotation associated with making money amongst spiritual circles but I've noticed a lot of it on the forum, someone will advise someone to start a business and the other will say 'I don't really care about material things'. 

Don't get me wrong it's very easy to fall into the 'never having enough' mindset and devoting all your time to making more and more money, whilst neglecting other areas of your life, this is something that happens commonly. But isn't this the case with any material 'success', for example you can go to toxic extremes with working out, relationships, eating healthy, reading etc, all of these and more definitely have the ability to overtake your life, however people will always advise them because the upside is so good if they're done consciously.

Why is it any different with business and making money? This is a life skill that, as long as you don't get addicted to it, can teach you so much and not only that can set a foundation for you to do everything else you want to do and also help others. If you have certain principles like basically dont be a dick and rip people off, then why not develop this skill? 

@Consept Because you're all not actually spiritual, your just religious fools. Making money is about providing a service for mankind. You people who demonize making money are lazy as hell. @SnaderYes, I am calling you socialist marxists out, I'm a capitalist. 

[Waken]

I liked a piece in the book Conversations with God on that. It said something like: "a lot of people don't trust their experience. Isn't it great though if you have lots of money, doesn't that feel great? Why don't you stick to your experience"

[SolarWarden]

3 hours ago, diamondpenguin said:

@ConseptBecause you're all not actually spiritual, your just religious fools. Making money is about providing a service for mankind. You people who demonize making money are lazy as hell. 

This is a good point