Why is making money seen as bad for spiritual minded people?

[Consept]

Just something I've been thinking about. So there seems to be quite a negative connotation associated with making money amongst spiritual circles but I've noticed a lot of it on the forum, someone will advise someone to start a business and the other will say 'I don't really care about material things'. 

Don't get me wrong it's very easy to fall into the 'never having enough' mindset and devoting all your time to making more and more money, whilst neglecting other areas of your life, this is something that happens commonly. But isn't this the case with any material 'success', for example you can go to toxic extremes with working out, relationships, eating healthy, reading etc, all of these and more definitely have the ability to overtake your life, however people will always advise them because the upside is so good if they're done consciously.

Why is it any different with business and making money? This is a life skill that, as long as you don't get addicted to it, can teach you so much and not only that can set a foundation for you to do everything else you want to do and also help others. If you have certain principles like basically dont be a dick and rip people off, then why not develop this skill? 

[Snader]

There is conscious money making an then there is unconscious money making.

Unconscious money making = Devilry, which is the opposite of spiritual work.

If you want to function in society it doesn't matter how spiritual you are, you are still going to need money making skills to some degree.

 

[Raptorsin7]

Probably because of all the broke spiritual seekers who have to justify being bad at finances

Also because if you learn how to be happy doing nothing then life becomes much less expensive and you require much less money than a typical person seeking happiness in objects in the world

Edited April 20, 2021 by Raptorsin7

[Hello from Russia]

Imo, that is because it is so central to human's survival. So people manipulate, propagandize, lie and do other nasty regarding this topic in order to get benefit for themselves. 

Notice how with sex it is the same exact thing, people lie, gaslight and manipulate each other about this topic both individually and collectively. Because It is so important and so central, people just can't help but do it

Most people who get this overly negative view of money got constantly gaslit and lied to by religion, family, governments and other people in power.

Most people also heavily suck at epistemology and independent thinking to counteract this gaslighting and propaganda. Mostly because independent thinking & epistemology was demonized for the same reason, it's like the key that unlocks everything

So we have this situation. I am actually quite sad that people on this forum so often have these poor beliefs about money

Edited April 20, 2021 by Hello from Russia

[Roy]

Stop romanticizing spiritual minded people and groups. They aren't perfect, they don't know everything.

You are your own ultimate authority. Start acting like it, and stop giving too many fucks about who says what's bad and what isn't.

[Consept]

28 minutes ago, Roy said:

Stop romanticizing spiritual minded people and groups. They aren't perfect, they don't know everything.

You are your own ultimate authority. Start acting like it, and stop giving too many fucks about who says what's bad and what isn't.

Its more of a conversation starter to get some opinions, if i cared i wouldnt have a podcast about making money lol

Edited April 20, 2021 by Consept

[Consept]

37 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

I am actually quite sad that people on this forum so often have these poor beliefs about money

I agree on this and with your post in general. I think there does seem to be at the core bad beliefs about money amongst the general public, either they spend it as fast as they can or they think its wrong to make it or have a lot. But youre right its a real shame that a lot of people who are at least interested in higher consciousness view making money as negative. If you follow the spiral dynamics chart or even maslows hierarchy of needs, the ability to gather resources is a foundational component of self actualisation. 

 

@Raptorsin7 Its true if youre ok with having less you dont need money to buy things, but of course that money could be used for starting up positive businesses and giving people jobs or donating or just helping family and also becoming a role model for others to counter act the typical view of a rich person. There does seem to be a lot of spiritual bypassing of this area as you say as well

Edited April 20, 2021 by Consept

[SolarWarden]

Hade a question about why Spiritual people are stuck in poverty. Have seen many donation buttons on blogs and funds being made for Spiritual people. 

Most Spiritual people are stuck in the Wisdom side of Spirituality. Ignoring the Empowerment side of it. Maybe they are afraid to fall to the level of a 9-5 job as their peers. Careers seem unimportant as you got spirituality which will give better fruits later on.

Something at this point seems like a regular job won't suit me. A maybe service to others job would be good like cleaning the ocean or building shelters for homeless people. Unfortunately, this is called volunteer work and we do it for free but something like that would drive me forward to make money. Instead of being stuck in meaningless factory work. 

Well, there is a good niche here that  I haven't seen anyone make videos on. "Erase the poverty mindset from your fellow spiritual person". This is a huge dilemma in the spiritual community and could be beneficial to teach out some ideas or techniques to them. The people who deserve money the most in society are having the least. Maybe societies haven't yet evolved enough so not so many people can make any money the spiritual way.

[erik8lrl]

A spiritually advanced person (yellow and above) will see it as what it is. A spiritually developing person (green) tends to form beliefs on this topic. Once you reach yellow, your mind truly starts to experience everything from a non-dual perspective. There is no absolute good or bad to anything, so if you tell them you want to make money and solve all your survival problems, they will encourage it as long as it's healthy. Anyone who gets to yellow will understand the complexity of everything. There is no experience in life that's ever wasted, so one should follow their heart's true desire, and naturally, it will help them grow. So it is not that all spiritual people have this belief, but that most of the more vocal/active "spiritual" people are at stage green. If you go talk to a group of stage yellow and above, the conversation will be very different.

[Nahm]

Making money isn’t seen as bad by spiritual people. 

[Consept]

16 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Making money isn’t seen as bad by spiritual people. 

Ive seen quite a few examples on this forum and in general. Are you saying no spiritual people see making money as a negative? Seems quite a blanket statement but im open to your perspective 

[Nahm]

@Consept

Yes. It’s not a blanket statement, it’s direct experience.

It’s your perspective. Notice, you’re not experiencing “outside perspectives”, just words which you’re attributing meaning to, even if the meaning is agreed upon, you’re agreeing....with your own meaning. 

What is the motive, the intention behind the thread?

And why does that motive or intention of yours, not quite resonate, with you? 

[Consept]

1 minute ago, Nahm said:

@Consept

It’s your perspective. Notice, you’re not experience “outside perspectives”, just words which you’re attributing meaning to, even if the meaning is agreed upon, you’re agreeing....with your own meaning. 

Yeah thats fine we're all the one and every perspective is fragmentation of the whole that we're all attached to. Thats cool but in terms of having a discussion amongst different, albeit illusory, perspectives, it kinda stifles the conversation as you could bring that in to any conversation or talking points. Of course there is value in not even talking and realising this but then it makes the forum redundant, so if we are going to engage in a forum dynamic different viewpoints are kind of the point 

[Nahm]

@Consept

Godspeed. ? 

One’s stifling is another’s liberation. 

But of course, up to you how you see, what I say. 

[Consept]

12 minutes ago, Nahm said:

What is the motive, the intention behind the thread?

And why does that motive or intention of yours, not quite resonate, with you? 

The motive or intention of the thread is to highlight something thats not often talked about in spiritual communities and challenge underlying assumptions that i think some people have. A lot of threads ive seen recently from younger people are along the lines of 'money and material stuff is so toxic stage orange and i want to bypass it through meditation', i wanted to open up a discussion on the counter side of that and offer a different viewpoint, as i think the viewpoint i mentioned can be unhelpful although im open to be challenged on that. If we are looking at the whole its important to look at all sides. 

What was your intention in posting your first response? 

[Nahm]

3 minutes ago, Consept said:

What was your intention in posting your first response? 

Freedom. 

3 minutes ago, Consept said:

i think the viewpoint i mentioned can be unhelpful

A pointing to this. 

[mandyjw]

Greed is a form of suffering and is usually thought of as an insatiable desire for money and material resources, but also could extend out to accolades, fame, sex, etc. The root of greed is insecurity, the sense that "I am not enough" and rather than investigating the "I", the "enough" or the feeling, we are driven to obtain.. whatever. Sometimes this is an idea of oneself as a spiritual person or minimalist, or whatever. Sometimes we see the obsession with obtaining and we think we can obtain security by renouncing obtaining. Always whatever we seek to obtain through being driven by this feeling is a thought, it's a thought, chasing more thoughts. But on the surface greed looks like a simple desire for resources, and money is what people think is the most fluid resource and therefore the most powerful or useful resource. Even if it's an idea. 

Once you realize money is a thought, you start to see the power in thoughts and also the impotence.

 

 

[Wilhelm44]

Whether people like to admit it or not, this passage from the bible must have had an effect on the subconscious of many spiritually inclined people. "And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money changers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

[Consept]

28 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Whether people like to admit it or not, this passage from the bible must have had an effect on the subconscious of many spiritually inclined people. "And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money changers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

Interesting, so do you think passages like this have led to money being looked at negatively by some or what is your interpretation? 

I also think the classic quote from the bible 'the love of money is the root of all evil' has probably had an effect particularly as its often mis-translated as 'money is the root of all evil' 

[jimwell]

"It is easier for a camel to pass through a needle hole than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." - Jesus

"If you really want to follow me, go and sell all your properties and give all the money to the poor. Then follow me." - Jesus

A genuine, spiritual person is naturally NOT interested in money. But many try to earn it anyway because they need to.