Understanding ghosting by females

[Preety_India]

@StarStruck well exactly as you said. 

Have you tried amping up your confidence in other ways than simply approaching? I see this method as not really going beyond scratching the surface. 

The other thing I wanted to suggest you is this - try having more long and intimate conversations? Are you afraid that you would suddenly suffer an awkward silence or pause or not have much to talk about? Do you feel discomfort when someone has an emotional conversation?

Are you scared or jittery when a long intellectual or emotional conversation is going on? 

Are you scared to have opinions, thinking how the other person might react? 

Do you feel very self conscious while speaking, thinking all sorts of things about how you are going to appear to the other person? 

If the answer to the questions is Yes then you will need to work extremely hard on deep conversation skills because this is huge factor in the area of relationships and friendships, you cannot build a connection with either male or female if you cannot get through this barrier. 

And don't be fooled into thinking that just approaching will solve this problem. Approaching can improve your approach confidence but not your conversation confidence. 

I was very bad at conversations. Saying things directly or abruptly and that made my boyfriend always assume the worst about me, lots of misunderstandings because I would directly jump to things, not knowing how to react or talk in specific situations. 

However I began talking, that is having long conversations with random people by first befriending them, not necessarily in real life, Just on the phone, texting and calling and I still wasn't good but the more I tried to extend conversations and attempted to have as long a conversation as possible it got easier to keep talking, even about difficult topics. I found it easier to present myself better and not so abrupt as before. People began to understand me better. 

It also helps in relationships a great deal. The other person can read you easily and not read you wrong. You appear a better person to them. They are able to see the real you and not be confused or skeptical 

 

Try that next time. I'm not saying don't try approach. Approach will definitely reduce your approach anxiety. 

But also work very hard on conversation skills. Buy books on conversation skills and practice with a lot of random people. Try to present yourself fully and better each time in a concise way, without appearing like you're rambling. 

This way you won't suffer the problem of being abrupt and silly in conversations. 

 

[StarStruck]

@Preety_India I'm very good at long as conversations. I got to therapy and I solved that problem. 

My issue is concerning the heart chakra. I'm afraid to be hurt. I build walls around my heart and nothing can go in and nothing can go out. 

My therapist is not into spirituality so she is just using conventional ways. Just having somebody to feel safe around helped me open up my heart chakra. 

With dating I still have problems. I get attached very quickly and I feel vulnerable. I know the solution: just expose myself until it is fixed but the thing is that I don't approach a lot so I don't have a lot of options. 

[Preety_India]

14 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

My issue is concerning the heart chakra. I'm afraid to be hurt.

Have you been hurt in previous relationships? 

 

[StarStruck]

8 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Have you been hurt in previous relationships? 

 

I had awful parenting and that influenced a lot of my relationships or better said lack of relationships. I'm now in therapy for half a year.

[Preety_India]

Just now, StarStruck said:

I had awful parenting and that influenced a lot of my relationships or better said lack of relationships. I'm now in therapy for half a year.

Does your trauma tie into how you talk or carry yourself around people? You might want to dig deeper into that if not able to establish a connection is a pattern in your life. 

 

[Preety_India]

@StarStruck since I don't know you much personally, I'm simply trying to look at the problem in different directions. Just suggesting that no problem has a single cause or solution.. You have to keep poking in different ways till you get a composite picture of how you can go about it, if you know what I mean. 

 

[flowboy]

3 hours ago, StarStruck said:

There is nothing left than to go on and keep approaching but these things do make me lose my innocence. If everybody is just after their best option, I should be too. Girls shouldn't cry about fuck boys, they create fuck boys by behaving like this!!

Luckily the city-centre is like 10 minutes away so there are no great cost for doing pickup but there is a lot of mental and emotional strain.

A lot of girls are cold, and it can get awkward very quickly.

@StarStruck Yes, good! You need to lose that innocence anyway.

Make sure you don't get bitter though, that is very important! Don't become a redpill loser. It's okay to be angry for a bit when a girl fucks you over, but try to be compassionate and not take it personally. Girls are cold to you, in the same way that we are cold to them.

How, you may ask? Well, to a girl, your attractiveness is not constant, but always changing. She may think you are cool at first, then you say or do something which makes you come off needy, and suddenly you are unattractive. It's the same as if she were suddenly to grow a beard and become obese. You'd be cold to her too, and cancel the date for sure. I know it's a hard thing to wrap your mind around, but your attractiveness to her is not constant. Which is a good thing in a way, because you can always center yourself, fix your attitude and become attractive again. But if you just met someone, you are both just not that invested yet, so any sort of maybe becomes a no.

It doesn't reflect personally on you, just on the particular behavior that you displayed and the impression she got from that due to her projections and subjective life experience thus far.

 

In this case, she was never that interested. It was a 'meh' from the beginning, it seems. Not her fault, not your fault, just not a great spark. A great initial interaction is what increases the chances of a girl showing up. She has to be excited. And she gets excited when she actually had fun meeting you.

 

Then there is the issue of her manners and your boundaries. You gotta have some standards for what behavior you will accept. If you don't like it when she doesn't reply after you set a date, then screw this one. Why still worry about whether you are coming off needy? If she's not treating you right, and you are still considering spending your precious time on her, then you aren't treating yourself right. And so she will feel your lack of self-worth and also not treat you right.

See how that works?

Just keep going, don't worry

 

PS. Park date is fine, just be a bit more cocky about it. You don't need to ask her how she is first, that's boring nice guy shit and will turn her off. Just get to the point. Have a plan, and make her contribute something. If you want to do a picnic, tell her to bring strawberries and refuse to say why. If you want to have her over for dinner, have her bring desert. If you are just doing a walk in the park date, have her get you a cappucino and wait for you at X location.

See how you can make it more interesting?

Remember, you don't need to be doing anything fancy, but you do need to lead her. No leading = no sex.

So stop asking if she wants to take a walk, that's already too weak. Tell her. Let's take a walk. Important difference! If you can't communicate in an assertive way, she's never going to let you fuck her anyway, trust me on that.

Edited April 19, 2021 by flowboy

[Jacob Morres]

i think some people are just in it for the validation, so as soon as you start to make it more serious with some commitment they might just bail. but, it's hard to say what it is exactly, it could be anything. and many things to do with her own issues and not you 

i can 100% promise you there will be girls that are available and interested 

sometimes it could be something you did, sometimes it could be nothing you did, and all of the girl's issues instead

and even if it was something you did, it means nothing about your worth, character or capability to attract women 

just a beautiful learning lesson of how the world works and what not to do next time. and maybe a call to love yourself and do a little healing 

this is just my worldview for this stuff 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Jacob Morres

[flowboy]

15 minutes ago, Jacob Morres said:

i think some people are just in it for the validation, so as soon as you start to make it more serious with some commitment they might just bail. but, it's hard to say what it is exactly, it could be anything. and many things to do with her own issues and not you 

i can 100% promise you there will be girls that are available and interested 

sometimes it could be something you did, sometimes it could be nothing you did, and all of the girl's issues instead

and even if it was something you did, it means nothing about your worth, character or capability to attract women 

just a beautiful learning lesson of how the world works and what not to do next time. and maybe a call to love yourself and do a little healing 

this is just my worldview for this stuff 

Very good.

Every person has had a different life, is looking at the world through their own limited paradigm colored by their previous experience. So some will perceive you as a great guy, some will perceive you as a loser, and everything in between. You'll never be everybody's cup of tea, and you shouldn't try. Better to turn most people off and turn only some people on, because those will be truly attracted, and you won't have to pretend anything.

[Michal__]

Move on to other women. Even if something comes out of this (it probably won't) there's no point in getting attached to her. 

[kray]

4 hours ago, StarStruck said:

I texted her 2 days after meeting her.

This was the conversation through text:

Me: hi

She: hi

Me: how are you?

She: good, you?

Me: I'm fine too, tomorrow it is going to be good weather, do want to go for a walk?

She: yes, that is fine

Me: ok, let's meet at 14:00 at the gate

*No reply*

Me: ? (3 hours later)

 

At that was the end of it.

That is the only option right now because of Corona.

If I'm gonna be honest here, this convo seems a bit on the mundane side. Maybe try adding a little bit humor next time? Even some flirting? 

[StarStruck]

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

Does your trauma tie into how you talk or carry yourself around people? You might want to dig deeper into that if not able to establish a connection is a pattern in your life. 

 

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

Does your trauma tie into how you talk or carry yourself around people? You might want to dig deeper into that if not able to establish a connection is a pattern in your life. 

 

I'm afraid to be abandoned or not being loved. Or if my feelings become a subject of mocking. 

[StarStruck]

@flowboy this is more difficult than I thought. It is very simple actually but changing my self image isn't. When I was reading your post I thought: "no way I can pull that off". My thoughts were like "I can't even get a fucking text back, how can I persuade her to bring strawberries or icecofee".

It all starts with inner game. I'm so fucked up by my parents that these things don't come natural to me. 

I'm insecure about what to text and I just screw it up. Sometimes I think I should just give up. I think I'm taking a break from pickup. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by StarStruck

[flowboy]

@StarStruck  I get it and I've been there, man. I have been super anxious over what to text countless times. Been too nice. Anxiously watching reactions. Heck, sometimes I still do.

You don't have to get there all at once. I'm 28 now. After some years you'll have enough experiences that tell you that that nice guy shit just won't work, and you will also start to understand why. And you learn that being assertive is actually the easiest way to be. Just suggest whatever you would like! The more certain you are about what you want, the happier she'll be. Win-win! You get to do whatever you want to do on a date, and she gets a confident guy that she can follow.

On a date, you are the leader. It's nice to be led, and have someone take responsibility for the evening/day. That's what she is looking for. It doesn't mean that everything has to go right, or that your plan has to be good. As long as you can keep the mood light and laugh everything off and adjust, you're doing fine.

Give yourself some time.

Also, communicating more assertively will feel weird at first, but you'll get used to it and it will benefit you greatly. Just make it a practice to sometimes try out a suggestion literally, however unnatural it feels in the beginning. The anxiety will go away in time.

Just don't fall into the trap of thinking something is "just not my style", that's how people keep themselves stuck. Copy what works from other people, get that down, then after that pick your own style,

Edited April 19, 2021 by flowboy

[Karmadhi]

@Preety_India Your message is very well written and makes total sense. However personally and maybe other guys here have an issue. That is that if we do what you say, build comfort and get close and stuff there is a risk of getting friend zoned. Personally i have done basically what you say and the person does not feel attracted to me, just very comfortable and at ease. How do you balance the two? Now ofc you will not be friend zoned if you talk a bit in text before asking to hang out but in general i see this friend zone epidemic that is caused by guys building too much comfort and too little boldness and move making. Basically no balls.

[Preety_India]

34 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

@Preety_India Your message is very well written and makes total sense. However personally and maybe other guys here have an issue. That is that if we do what you say, build comfort and get close and stuff there is a risk of getting friend zoned. Personally i have done basically what you say and the person does not feel attracted to me, just very comfortable and at ease. How do you balance the two? Now ofc you will not be friend zoned if you talk a bit in text before asking to hang out but in general i see this friend zone epidemic that is caused by guys building too much comfort and too little boldness and move making. Basically no balls.

That's when you don't make a move at all. Beware of trying to play too hard into the "I wanna be an asshole to attract her or else I will be friendzoned" Meme because not every girl is looking for a mean guy who will get her attention. Learn to read her first. You could easily go completely wrong in your approach if you go theoretically, or by the book. In reality, you need to first screen the person well enough to get to know  beforehand as to what would be okay for them and what won't. This is just simple people handling, if you fail at the basics, dating is out of the window. So be careful, trying to run with the whole trope of appearing like the crude guy, it might come off as aggressive and that can be a hit or miss, either something that helps or becomes a huge turn off. So it's not going to work with every girl. 

Also do a bit of homework before you put on the crude guy act. By homework I mean that you need to establish a connection with the person/girl, get them emotionally stimulated enough and then make your move, if you directly make a move, the first word that will run through her mind in big  bold letters is "CREEEP" and you don't want such aggressive energy to defeat your purpose. So roll your dice carefully. 

Friendzoning usually happens when you are into too much simping, waiting too long, especially when she has already shown interest, not being strict with your boundaries, acting sissy /lame, don't have anything else going on in your life, don't act protective enough, don't act bold as in masculine bold (don't know  how to express this in words, it's like a vibe if you understand what it means, very hard to explain this ), let her piss all over you, don't attack her at all (doesn't mean that you attack her all the time, doesn't mean physical attack, it means create polarity polarity polarity... Act like you don't care, act like she should listen to you but you still do what she wants in the end, it's all about putting on an  act for attraction, not being a straight up a-hole, it means giving her ample opportunities to think about you, get wet thinking about you, get wet dreams about you, this will need some emotional back and forth between you and her, which means at least 1 month of interaction, you could start a fight for no reason, create drama, build tension, all of this while still being her lovely friend, that's how her brain is slowly shifting towards you in a different way, now you are not just a friend but a guy who understands her emotionally but is also getting her vagina worked up, she can't resist the polarity you're creating, she is able to trust you because you were a friend to her for so long and now she has to reconcile that you're not just a friend but a big MALE in front of her, not necessarily big in size, but big in EGO and her wimpy puny ego is defeated in front of your big MALE MASCULINE EGO, yet she is not scared because you didn't put her in danger, she is not upset either because she thinks you care about her, so she is delightfully pleased that you held onto your own and didn't back down to her puny ego, at the same time you aren't supposed to completely destroy her ego, keep some part of it by teasing her, making her feel wanted, making it all light hearted, laughing at her if she attacked you (a real feminine woman will love it if you laugh at her while she is going off, like I used to secretly smile when my ex used to laugh at me going off at him, he used to find my anger cute, it's like laughing at an angry cat) and you also fulfill her ego partially by playing the protective guy, doing what she tells you to do, if she wants you to accompany her then do that, all the while maintaining your polarity by locking your eyes with her, trying to demonstrate to her that you are still a male and not some Teddy Bear, by making sure that you tell her that you are not to be messed with, you act serious and keep a distance, deprive her of affection sometimes to keep her craving that's how you build chemistry, moment to moment, blow by blow, you create such intense polarity that she just can't stop thinking about you, you gotta be in her brain while acting like you are just a friend, then sweet wet dreams automatically follow at night, she will think more about you if you fought with her, if you didn't fight with her then she is not going to think about you because there is nothing to think about, it's about you hyping yourself in her brain 24/7, the way celebrities are always on the first page of the newspaper getting our attention, get into her brain forcibly and then she is sufficiently sexually stimulated to see you as a high value guy, at this point your social status won't matter much because you have established yourself as a bold MALE and that is so so irresistible to her joke of an ego, she will bite her lips in anger but wait for you to conquer her by waiting for you to make the first move. Then it's time for you to get her to be sexual with you by asking her to meet you in private. End of the story.. 

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Preety_India

[flowboy]

9 minutes ago, modmyth said:

Am I the only one who thinks of ghosting as practical even if it's not "socially ideal" or the most polite/ nicest behaviour?

That's a bit of a strawman. It's not "not the nicest", just plain rude. I appreciate it much more when people just say "you know what, changed my mind brah" instead of nothing and you're left to wonder.

If you've structurally got too many engagements going on to keep up with, isn't it a sign to learn to say no and prioritize a bit better?

Saying this knowing full well that most girls are like this out of practical necessity. But if I had a choice, I would always choose clarity over cowardice, I find it a less infuriating experience.

There's still a girl roaming this planet who I feel still owes me a proper breakup message. She just stopped talking one day after being on many dates with me, and I resent her for it still when I think about it.

I understand however that guys are scary and unpredictable when you hurt their feelings. So I get it too

Edited April 19, 2021 by flowboy

[flowboy]

6 minutes ago, modmyth said:

What I don't understand on a personal level is getting that attached to people who are basically strangers to the point that you feel entitled to their continued time and energy. You've had maybe a few interactions at most. Why get so attached to the outcome? So emotionally maybe it doesn't work like that in reality because you have hopes and expectations, but logically?

And yea, I am empathetic towards how hard it can be for guys to have to put themselves on the line constantly. But still...

Nono, no entitlement to their continued time and energy. If someone decides against putting in more energy, they can just tell me quickly, so that I can also stop putting in energy as quickly as possible.

If they don't say anything, now I am left to wonder for 3 days. Stranger being too lazy to send one message essentially wasted my mental energy for 3-4 days. It's inconsiderate.

I do think that if you can say yes to a potential date and giving your number, then you should also be ready to say no when you change your mind.

Edited April 19, 2021 by flowboy

[flowboy]

1 minute ago, modmyth said:

The longer you've known each other and the more emotional energy you've invested, the more serious is it, obviously. I get that.

But like... if you haven't even met up? (I was responding more to the OPs case). Maybe she was saving him wasted time. She could have been stringing him along a lot longer potentially.

Totally fine, but if she had simply said that with one message, OP would not have spent the energy of wondering about it for days after and making this topic.

Clarity is more respectful of people's time and energy.

I get that most chicks don't evolve the skill of proper communication because they are getting spoiled and overwhelmed with attention, and also men are dangerous and unpredictable, but that doesn't mean it's not rude. I've known many women who have very clearly stated that they did not intend to meet up, or have no intentions of dating more seriously, or had met someone they were serious with so they had no other room for dating in their life. It stings but it doesn't leave me hanging and therefore I get to move on quicker.

[flowboy]

1 minute ago, modmyth said:

You don't really need their permission to stop putting in energy though...

Who's talking about permission? Just give people a heads-up and help them save days of their time.

I just think that the gender being pursued could use some more consideration for the pursuing gender. And vice versa of course.