Understanding Toxic People

[7thLetter]

I feel that I have a decent amount of understanding on this topic but I wanted to create this thread to maybe get a discussion going, share some of my insights, and read some of your insights for us to further understand the deeper psychology of why people become toxic in any sort of relationship.

Personally I've been quite a bit of a toxic person in the past when I started to get into pickup, but its gotten a lot better now that I quit and several years has passed since then. Although, I will say that this behavior within' me hasn't completely vanished and I might say things in a subtle way to try and get some sort of result out of it from time to time, specifically with women. Often times I may be aware of this but its not always clear to me in the moment, its only clear after the fact.

I mention this because personal experience with something specific leads to greater understanding on the topic of it. So I honestly can understand why people tend to be manipulative/toxic within' personal relationships, and I may even have some empathy for them. Plus not only was I toxic, I've had many friends or co-workers who were toxic towards me as well and of course this behavior has bothered me.

My understanding of my toxic behavior in the past is that I've had some deep rooted trauma when it comes to women, I've always had such deep feelings for a handful of women as a teen but I've never had any sort of relationship with any of them. So in my mind I was suffering deeply because of the fact that I couldn't have them in my life or any girl at all for that matter. This lead to neediness, sexual frustration, and trying to manipulate women to try and attract them. Of course it didn't work.

With that being said, its pretty obvious to me that this type of toxic behavior comes from a place of trauma or insecurity. I've read a statement in an article that said something along the lines of, "gaslighting often occurs when there is an imbalance of power." While gaslighting is a common and separate form of manipulation on its own, I believe that this applies to any sort of manipulation tactic in relationships. The main intent behind manipulative or toxic behavior is to try and put yourself above others to feel a sense of superiority and to also get some sort of result with it.

For example, an average guy in a relationship with a really hot girl might feel insecure about his ability to keep this girl and has a fear of losing her so he feels a need to manipulate her. Manipulation gives people a sense of control and that's what he thinks he needs, control. Low self-esteem causes him to place a low value on himself and he places a high value on her because she's hot. As a result of his low self-esteem he feels an imbalance of power. Rather than actually placing himself at a higher value than her by improving his life or self-esteem, the only thing he can turn towards is manipulation to try and put himself above her. But this feeling of superiority is inauthentic. Manipulation is quick and easy in the moment, it doesn't require us to change ourselves, we think that its a quick-fix solution and that we can get what we want with it but it ends up backfiring on us. So of course, in this scenario the girl eventually leaves him.

One more example, subtle forms of manipulation often also occur within' debates/arguments. If a toxic person feels that he's losing the argument and he doesn't want to accept it, he may feel the need to try and put himself in a superior position in a manipulative way. He will gaslight, try to make the other person look stupid, downplay, create a strawman, deny, defend himself, justify, prove himself, at all costs, just to try and control the other person. It comes from a place of, "I'm not worthy of winning this argument so I will try to use toxic behavior to try and win it." In other words, they're trying to cheat their way into winning. "I'm not as intelligent as you, so I'll just try to make you look stupid."

What are your thoughts on this topic, why do people feel the need become so toxic? 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by 7thLetter

[intotheblack]

toxic behaviour is done unconsciously because of traumas and low self esteem, people are still very much behaving like teenagers at all ages.  Trauma keeps you in this childhood state, even though on the surface you are an adult. 

usually, in these toxic relationships, it is not only one person at fault.  before judging another of being toxic, one must first ask themselves..."what toxic part am I playing in this dynamic and what can I do to change it?"  

most people won't ask themselves this question, so they will end up staying in the relationship and ignore whats going on.  or they will blame the other person.  this is also toxic behaviour.  

for example, a wife who allows her husband to get away with numerous things without ever calling him out on it, she teaches the children not to confront a person who does wrong, and brushes everything under the rug.  This is a coping mechanism of denial, or enabling. she has low self esteem.  the husband knows he can disrespect her without consequence.  

the husband is acting also from a place of hurt and lack of self love, but to a different degree. he also refused to look at himself and what he is doing, he is also using coping mechanisms of withdrawl, denial and lying. 

This creates a toxic home environment.  In this situation it might look like the wife has no choice and that only the husband is to blame.  But the wife is also allowing this treatment, she is also playing a toxic part in the situation. 

of course, if this goes on for a long time it becomes "normal" and the victim sees no way out, she becomes brainwashed because of the manipulation.  at this point the more vulnerable member of the relationship needs reinforcement and support to get out of the situation.  

first and foremost you have to look at yourself.  Then, look hard at the situation and what you can do to change it.  

as you understand yourself more you can more easily spot red flags in others, and will know to avoid those people.  but if you are still living in your naive childhood state, you won't be able to spot them and be easily manipulated. 

all toxic people are just acting from the childhood paradigm! they never matured.

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by intotheblack

[intotheblack]

A lot of toxic behaviours are actually coping mechanisms.. 

there is probably something on these lists that all of us have done or still do sometimes. As long as we can identify it and choose an active more positive coping mechanism instead.. 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by intotheblack

[Lyubov]

I wouldn’t bust your ass trying to understand them if you feel you are ready to let them go. You probably have interacted enough with them to have some foresight about walking into something you would rather not be in so with regards to that you are probably as safe as you can be from being used or abused by a toxic person. From there usually thinking a ton about it just creates a bad mood in the topic. I’ve let this go cause I think it can be reduced. Most people we find toxic usually have something else from their past bothering them. That’s their business. Trying to contemplate it more tends to not lead me anywhere. I have a good head on my shoulders and have had enough social experience to know who is good to have in my life and who isn’t. From there it’s just forgiving and letting go the toxic people from my past and the times I was toxic.

[Preety_India]

1 hour ago, intotheblack said:

A lot of toxic behaviours are actually coping mechanisms.. 

there is probably something on these lists that all of us have done or still do sometimes. As long as we can identify it and choose an active more positive coping mechanism instead.. 

 

Thank you for sharing this.i very  much needed it 

[intotheblack]

@Preety_India you’re welcome  I just edited the post and re-added one of the photos because it wasn’t loading for some reason.  

[Yog]

@intotheblack  Wow, I love those, especially the graph. I got a thing for graphs. Ty

@7thLetter  Ty you for sharing too. It looks to me that your question has been answered.

Btw, just some after thoughts on it. If you focus on developing yourself and rise your consciousness further, most of these issues will slowly stop either existing for you, or at least stop bothering you. Even if someone else is toxic, it wont bother you much, as you will understand them why they are the way they are and that they couldn't be any other way   The solution is quite simple: its fuck all of this stuff and work on rising your consciousness Shadow work is also great for unclogging psychic pipe works.

[supremeyingyang]

@intotheblack  nice Information:)

6 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

What are your thoughts on this topic, why do people feel the need become so toxic?

First of all this is very subjective. Any of us here discussing could seen as toxic by another person. Or a person you see as toxic is seen as perfectly healthy by her family.

I can't define what is toxic in general, but If I meet someone that will proof to be toxic I get a hit of Intuition. But I wait, because I'm also often false. And this is what I can give in this discussion. Maybe many who we quickly classify as toxic are just unconscious people in bad engineered social systems?

 

[Gianna]

@Preety_India Amazing! Thank you!! 

How do we know if we have trauma? I know this sounds weird. But when I think of what I considered as my trauma, I think, "well, that was just my life." I guess I just think of being traumatized as stemming from one event. Whereas mine was years of my life. 

I have overcome some things on this list, through tough acknowledgment/self-honesty. But they still linger. Why do they still linger? If we find ourselves dealing with old negating coping mechanisms, does this mean our trauma is unresolved or is this ego backlash? Are you ever fully cured of your trauma? I know raising consciousness helps because I have experienced what @Yog was mentioning. But I can't tell if raising my consciousness is giving me ego backlash or if I never really overcame my trauma. 

[Preety_India]

@Gianna I think symptoms of trauma are quite specific where you feel anxiety, nightmares and memory loss. 

Ego backlash on the other hand is an innate resistance to any changes in consciousness which surface as bad habits like perfectionism or obsessive behaviors. 

A decrease in your trauma symptoms might indicate that you're coping well with your trauma.. 

 

[Gianna]

@Preety_India Ahh, I see. This makes sense! Thank you so much! 

[Preety_India]

@Gianna you're welcome. 

 

[JohnD]

Good info on toxicity here.

Trauma is when you've experienced something you weren't able to process. Part of you gets stuck in that experience so some of your energy is tied up. It can relax over time and you can regain your energy, but it can be re-triggered, causing your energy to compress again.

Any sort of psychological splitting (falling into dualities) or disconnection from the Self is the result of trauma. This accounts for ADHD, anxiety disorders, depression, narcissism+codependence, bipolar disorder, etc. Fortunately all those labels come from stage orange/green trying to describe stage purple/red/blue/orange behavior. A higher perspective will shine a much more redeeming light on this less developed part of humanity.

[supremeyingyang]

19 hours ago, JohnD said:

Good info on toxicity here.

Trauma is when you've experienced something you weren't able to process. Part of you gets stuck in that experience so some of your energy is tied up. It can relax over time and you can regain your energy, but it can be re-triggered, causing your energy to compress again.

Any sort of psychological splitting (falling into dualities) or disconnection from the Self is the result of trauma. This accounts for ADHD, anxiety disorders, depression, narcissism+codependence, bipolar disorder, etc. Fortunately all those labels come from stage orange/green trying to describe stage purple/red/blue/orange behavior. A higher perspective will shine a much more redeeming light on this less developed part of humanity.

never thought about it that way. i thought that psychological diseases are a issue seperate from the stage one individual is in, even though I would also say that the trend is higher the stage, the more sane i would guess a individual (other factors unknown)

do you think a new sort of psychotherapy could heal all of that after working on these traumas?

regards

[JohnD]

@supremeyingyang I wouldn't say the psychological issues are tied to the stage, but the way we deal with them is correlated. A stage green/yellow person struggling with depression will have a different approach to healing than someone at a lower or higher stage.

1 hour ago, supremeyingyang said:

do you think a new sort of psychotherapy could heal all of that after working on these traumas?

I hope so, I know a lot of us here have taken that responsibility on ourselves, which can be lonely and difficult.