The Self Isn't Happiness

[Raptorsin7]

I have a question about my stage of meditation practice. I've been listening to a lot of neo-advaita teachers like Rupert Spira, Fred Davis etc and I believe I understand the essence of the teaching. Awareness is always aware, no matter what's happening there is always this presence of awareness. I have moments where I feel I really understand the teachings, and I'm just resting as awareness, and I can feel physical shifts occurring in my body.

The nature of our presence is supposed to be peace and happiness, but I don't experience that when I listen to advaita teachings. Rupert talks about how at first the self is experienced as dull/boring and then overtime it flourishes into peace and happiness, but it's still a frustrating place to be at. I notice i procrastinate a lot and I have a lot of resistance to just sitting down and being/meditating. 

Has anyone gone through this phase? How do you bridge to the gap so the presence we all experience can be experienced/realized as peace/happiness/love

[Seraphim]

Listening to guided meditations and getting shaktipat worked for me. You could also try breathing techniques, yoga, chi gong or focusing on releasing resistance.

[allislove]

Keep going. You can't understand it since you are the understanding itself.

 

Imagine, you say to a giraffe that it is your toy, as everything else. Can a giraffe to know that it's not just a giraffe?  

You can investigate the direct experience and see that you are not just a giraffe. The main principle it to notice how you feel, don't cling to the thinking that doesn't feel good. Don't cling to anything, stay as immovable silence so to speak. If you fully accept the current moment as it is, how does it feel? This is it.   

[mandyjw]

It's not a phase, you have the potential to experience joy (even intense joy) and peace at any point. It's really just about noticing when you are there and appreciating the heck out of it. Your attitude about your journey mimics the attitude anyone who feels unfulfilled has about life "something is missing, I'm not right, I'm not doing it right, I'm not advanced enough, I'm not good enough, etc" has. It doesn't matter if they've even heard of enlightenment or not, it's the same pattern. This belief that something is off and something in unreachable, that life is unsatisfactory will color your experience to reflect it. If you want truly want the future to be different, now must be different. The future will not magically change because we think now is not enough. Now must be enough, because now is all there is.

The way "through" it is to intend to find things to appreciate, and to sink into appreciation of things. When we have spent our lives looking for things to complain about and looking for things that are wrong, the way to undo this is to intend to find things that you truly appreciate. It can hep to start with the easiest subjects, nature, surroundings, etc. Appreciate how comfy your bed is before you go to sleep, appreciate the people in your life, even if you have to find specific little aspects to focus on. Appreciate how perfect the earth is, how perfectly situated it is from the sun, how incredibly amazing it is that THIS is happening at all. Appreciate yourself. You ARE that same perfection. 

[The Buddha]

The Self Isn't Happiness, that is true. Because happines is refined pleasure. The Self is pure Bliss. So u will not find happiness in The Self, u will find no pleasure at all. Because those concepts do not exist in a full completition state of being. When u are full, complete and perfect: u don't feel just pleasure or mere happines: u feel fucking ecstatic and if u fully let go u are pure bliss.

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I have a question about my stage of meditation practice. I've been listening to a lot of neo-advaita teachers like Rupert Spira, Fred Davis etc and I believe I understand the essence of the teaching

What do you think about Rupert’s teaching, that there are no states (as in / or stages)? 

Basically he’s saying you are already experiencing the true nature of happiness... that is what you’re experiencing the resistance too.  What do you think about that? 

“...it's still a frustrating place to be at. I notice i procrastinate a lot and I have a lot of resistance to just sitting down and being/meditating.”

As happiness is feeling, and feeling is what you want... are you ‘going to’ feeling or away from feeling so to speak, by procrastinating, resisting, and continuing to experience frustration? 

If you sat down and meditated and or wrote in an expression journal daily... would you not be more focused on feeling, than on thoughts about feeling? 

What are your conditions for happiness? What comes to mind when asked .... what criteria need to be met for you to be happy? WHat has to be different or change first? What conditions must be met? What relationships must be resolved? What skills, things, etc, are needed before you can be happy? Who do you have to be, so that you can be happy? 

[Raptorsin7]

@allislove

8 hours ago, allislove said:

You can investigate the direct experience and see that you are not just a giraffe. The main principle it to notice how you feel, don't cling to the thinking that doesn't feel good. Don't cling to anything, stay as immovable silence so to speak. If you fully accept the current moment as it is, how does it feel? This is it.   

This doesn't feel like bliss and peace though. I am aware, or awareness is aware, but it doesn't lead to any meaningful change in my experience. If this is it, and it's always just this, what does it take for the bliss to come from that pointer?

@The Buddha Rupert calls the nature of the self peace/happiness. I think if a person were in pure bliss they would count themselves as pretty happy and satisfied.

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Raptorsin7

[Raptorsin7]

7 hours ago, Nahm said:

What do you think about Rupert’s teaching, that there are no states (as in / or stages)? 

Basically he’s saying you are already experiencing the true nature of happiness... that is what you’re experiencing the resistance too.  What do you think about that? 

From my understanding, there are no states or stages of consciousness because consciousness is just what is already. The inherent aliveness and awareness/presence is always available and so it's prior to any state or stage. But I think it's a bit misleading to say there are no states or stages as well.

In this video rupert discusses what he calls the 2nd stage of practice where the seeker investigates the nature of the awareness. Most people want the peace and happiness that comes from investigating the nature of the self, and since most people aren't happy while seeking it makes sense to me to consider the path in stages until they reach a point of their practice where they are satisfied and happy.

I agree we are experiencing the true nature of happiness which is the awareness, but to go from there to actual happiness/peace can be viewed as a stage above I think.

7 hours ago, Nahm said:

What are your conditions for happiness? What comes to mind when asked .... what criteria need to be met for you to be happy? WHat has to be different or change first? What conditions must be met? What relationships must be resolved? What skills, things, etc, are needed before you can be happy? Who do you have to be, so that you can be happy? 

I have a lot of conditions but I don't expect to fulfill them to find happiness. I think at this point it's about spending more time on the cushion and really sinking into the awareness without getting distracted by objects, and seeing how my own activity of the mind is constantly getting in the way so to speak. I definitely know what i'm looking for from my lsd trips, i'd say i'm looking for the same kind of shift in my meditation practice. The criteria would be if you ask me am I happy, and I honestly respond yes I feel very happy with my experience. Right now I can't say that

[Raptorsin7]

@mandyjw

8 hours ago, mandyjw said:

The way "through" it is to intend to find things to appreciate, and to sink into appreciation of things. When we have spent our lives looking for things to complain about and looking for things that are wrong, the way to undo this is to intend to find things that you truly appreciate. It can hep to start with the easiest subjects, nature, surroundings, etc. Appreciate how comfy your bed is before you go to sleep, appreciate the people in your life, even if you have to find specific little aspects to focus on. Appreciate how perfect the earth is, how perfectly situated it is from the sun, how incredibly amazing it is that THIS is happening at all. Appreciate yourself. You ARE that same perfection. 

But from a meditating perspective isn't wouldn't I just be seeking objects and sensations and overlooking. Wouldn't it be better to simply rest as awareness and go right to the source rather than try and seek pleasant sensations through thoughts. It seems like that would just perpetuate the seeking self while I try to look for appreciation all the while overlooking awareness. 

One thing i've found helpful is the pointer about how there's nothing wrong with experience. I don't know if it's what you had in mind, but I think one my problems is I have always have this sense of something wrong with me/the world, and on my good psych trips a common theme is always the realization that there is no-thing wrong with experience. I think this points back to inherent no-problemness of awareness

[Zeroguy]

@Raptorsin7 Yes Infinite Happiness. 

What can have no oposite?

Buffed blackhaired Enlightenment Master from nowhere. 

[Zeroguy]

You are THIS actually. 

Can't be more obvious then obvious. 

 

[allislove]

Quote

This doesn't feel like bliss and peace though. I am aware, or awareness is aware, but it doesn't lead to any meaningful change in my experience. If this is it, and it's always just this, what does it take for the bliss to come from that pointer?

It's about how deep you can accept the present moment. The acceptance should be so deep, even the "my" label should drop from "my experience". Then, there is only experience, that is bliss.

[Raptorsin7]

1 minute ago, Zeroguy said:

You are THIS actually. 

Can't be more obvious then obvious. 

Thanks veganawake. I know i'm this, but i want to know when this is going to start being felt as bliss and peace.

@allislove Yeah makes sense. I have had many sessions recently where I feel myself on the verge of a deep surrender to the now but then i just get up and pat myself on the back haha. I'm trying to be more diligent and get myself on the cushion more i think it's only a matter of time now.

[Zeroguy]

When you realize you are appearing and are  whole experience itself and that you are creating it. 

Ain't no human in it. 

 

[Zeroguy]

@Raptorsin7 You've been at the same place for eternity. Never moved anywhere. 

Tripping blls out with this thing called life. 

[allislove]

@Raptorsin7 yep, a matter of time.

I'm sure you tried the guided meditations from Rupert. Personally ?, those meditations were quite useful at some point on the path.

[Raptorsin7]

@allislove Yeah I listen to guided meditations a lot. It's really useful when someone is constantly pointing you back to awareness when you get distracted.

[Raptorsin7]

@Zeroguy What point of your practice did your heart open up?

[Zeroguy]

Point of practise is Self Realization. 

Realizing your True Nature=Actual Infinite Love. 

Forever, let me repeat that. Forever. 

You can't be anything else. 

[Nahm]

@Raptorsin7

Sounds like you’re understanding is pretty clear and solid. I agree meditation is the way. 

I wouldn’t make it one or the other though... as far as meditation or choosing better feeling thoughts, and attitudes like appreciation. But that doesn’t mean you should or need to. 

Sorry, I could’ve been more clear with “there are no states (as in / or stages)?”. Sometimes the word states and stages are uses as synonyms, but I see you aren’t using them that way. I also get what you’re saying, that there is the experience of stages, and kind of a stage one and stage two. Maybe stage two is post realizing the distinction of states and stages as thoughts, as labels, that can be believed to describe experience (as in perception) or define the self (as in happiness) but don’t, and only obscure.