Is truth from direct experience on the same level as saying that the earth is round?

[Holygrail]

can we still say it's true that the earth is round even if we haven't personally seen earth from outer space?

[EternalDream]

Personally, I'm not conscious of it, but I belief it.

Edited April 18, 2021 by EternalDream

[Holygrail]

13 minutes ago, EternalDream said:

Personally, I'm not conscious of it, but I belief it.

i guess we can make an approximation of the "earth is round" being true since we see science all the time telling us, and how science measures relative truth with accuracy. It's just useful to make approximations of truth around us as a survival strategy based on what we consistently see and haven't seen, but ultimately still taking it on a level of faith since right now it's in my imagination.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Holygrail

[James123]

@Holygrail belief and direct realization is like, for example belief, seeing or knowing the apple and try to fathom the taste of the apple with thoughts, your ideas or others. Direct realization is eating the apple, directly taste it.  So you cant even be close to truth with thoughts, you can’t even experience the truth as eating apple, You have to “be”. 

[Holygrail]

5 minutes ago, James123 said:

@Holygrail belief and direct realization is like, for example belief, seeing or knowing the apple and try to fathom the taste of the apple with thoughts, your ideas or others. Direct realization is eating the apple, directly taste it.  So you cant even be close to truth with thoughts, you can’t even experience the truth as eating apple, You have to “be”. 

yeah that makes sense, being is king

[karkaore]

@Holygrail

What is "earth is round" in your experience?

[Holygrail]

15 minutes ago, karkaore said:

@Holygrail

What is "earth is round" in your experience?

it doesnt exist in my direct experience besides being in my imagination, so we cant technically say its true. But we can still say that "the earth is round" is closer to truth than saying unicorns are true relative to what we will encounter in the real world (based on our past experiences). While of course. not being true right now.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Holygrail

[karkaore]

What is anything "outside" your experience?

In your experience "earth is round" and "unicorns are true" are both equally true/false. Your mind has different rationalizations about these ideas though.

[Bojan V]

@Holygrail

1 hour ago, Holygrail said:

can we still say it's true that the earth is round even if we haven't personally seen earth from outer space?

Yes, we can say it becose we don't live in the middle ages, where ignorant catholic church invented the flat earth and creationism delusions in which some people still believe.

[WaveInTheOcean]

As human beings it seems like we in fact do have seen that the earth is round, multiple times, from space.

Humans work on the space station. They take loada of pics.

Humans have been on the moon. More pics.

We have set up 100s of sattelities and probes into space, taking even more pics of Earth.

Now, the question for you is this:

What is more likely: that all those scientists and astranouts are part of a giant conspiracy to brainwash all the ppl on Earth to believe the earth is round for whatever reason xD..., Or that the earth simply is round, given all the evidence.

You decide. In other words, you can go the "I am a moron-way"-route and believe the first (thus, the earth is flat) or you can go the more nuanced route, using common sense. :-))

[Breakingthewall]

There are no absolute certainties, only great probabilities that a fact verified several times will yield the same result when verified the next time

[Nahm]

On 4/18/2021 at 4:13 AM, Holygrail said:

can we still say it's true that the earth is round even if we haven't personally seen earth from outer space?

If you look up at the sky, notice there’s no such thing as an earth. It’s likely the next thought is ‘but I’m standing on it’, and that reveals the thought attachment in regard to beliefs you are (only) the body / mind. Contemplate and inspect what the whole of the experience is made of vs assuming there is separation. Notice the body is made only of what is eaten, and all that is eaten grows from the earth. How is the you separate, in a literal sense? Thought attachment (‘earth’, ‘round’, etc) is the same ‘on it’ or ‘looking at it’. Thoughts about perception, are thoughts about perception, and do not actually define perception. 

[The0Self]

Be-Lie-(I)f

Edited April 18, 2021 by The0Self

[Sine]

20 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

As human beings it seems like we in fact do have seen that the earth is round, multiple times, from space.

Humans work on the space station. They take loada of pics.

Humans have been on the moon. More pics.

We have set up 100s of sattelities and probes into space, taking even more pics of Earth.

Now, the question for you is this:

What is more likely: that all those scientists and astranouts are part of a giant conspiracy to brainwash all the ppl on Earth to believe the earth is round for whatever reason xD..., Or that the earth simply is round, given all the evidence.

You decide. In other words, you can go the "I am a moron-way"-route and believe the first (thus, the earth is flat) or you can go the more nuanced route, using common sense. :-))

WTF.

"Common sense" - wtf is this concept anyway. An echo chamber is what I would call it. 

"The moron-way" - an imbecile way to talk about other people. This pisses me off. Get born. 

First of all. No. You can't be sure that the earth is round when you haven't seen it yourself. You can only choose whom to trust and then choose what you want to believe in. Whether or not you think the earth is round it's a belief and you should always keep that in mind and therefore be humble about everything you know = have chosen to believe.

Yet, even if you have seen that the earth is round with your own eyes, this is still a belief.

You choose to believe in the picture of the outer world that your brain makes for you. If you had different eyes, a different brain, or a different kind of body, or maybe even a different kind of awareness/vibrational level what do I know, it would look different and therefore be different to you - and you would probably choose to believe that picture.

It's like the saying about how God created man in his own picture - but it's also the other way around. We create GOD (reality) in our own picture. So be careful and humble about that. Of course, we need to create "him" in our own picture because otherwise we couldn't understand shit and would just be shit scared trippin' all the time.. But still. It's important to be aware that we are doing this. 

When asking questions like these, and discussing these topics, I really believe humbleness is a good way to approach it. The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing. 

 

 

 

[WaveInTheOcean]

44 minutes ago, Sine said:

WTF.

"Common sense" - wtf is this concept anyway. An echo chamber is what I would call it. 

"The moron-way" - an imbecile way to talk about other people. This pisses me off. Get born. 

First of all. No. You can't be sure that the earth is round when you haven't seen it yourself. You can only choose whom to trust and then choose what you want to believe in. Whether or not you think the earth is round it's a belief and you should always keep that in mind and therefore be humble about everything you know = have chosen to believe.

Yet, even if you have seen that the earth is round with your own eyes, this is still a belief.

You choose to believe in the picture of the outer world that your brain makes for you. If you had different eyes, a different brain, or a different kind of body, or maybe even a different kind of awareness/vibrational level what do I know, it would look different and therefore be different to you - and you would probably choose to believe that picture.

It's like the saying about how God created man in his own picture - but it's also the other way around. We create GOD (reality) in our own picture. So be careful and humble about that. Of course, we need to create "him" in our own picture because otherwise we couldn't understand shit and would just be shit scared trippin' all the time.. But still. It's important to be aware that we are doing this. 

When asking questions like these, and discussing these topics, I really believe humbleness is a good way to approach it. The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing. 

I sincerely think "flat earthers" are rather stupid,... moron is perhaps a rather strong word (like imbecile..) - point taken.

Common sense is common sense. Like: I believe the sun will rise tommorow like it did today. That's common sense. All other people on Earth (that I know of at least, even flat earthers) seem to believe the same. Sure, you can call that belief an echo chamber, if you want, but that's besides the point.

Sure, you are right - I can't be 100% sure of ANYTHING. Even that the Sun wil rise tommorow! You know, maybe some wild aliens will go and extinguish it tonight!

Beliefs in and of themselves aren't an issue. Beliefs are very necessary to function in the world. If i didn't believe the Sun would rise tommorow, I'd act vastly different today.

The issue is 'unexamined beliefs'. Unconsciousness. Ignorance. Attachments. 

If someone came with serious proof that the Earth is actually flat and that all pictures of Earth from space are manufactured, I'd strongly consider it.

Until then, I choose to believe that there -- relatively speaking -- exists a planet, called Earth, that is round and which is teeming with life.

[WaveInTheOcean]

It's about staying alert, being skeptic, always reflecting, being critical, always staying open-minded -- ready to change ones beliefs -- and then assigning probabilities to one's beliefs.

I'm 99,9999999999% sure the sun will rise tommorow. Likewise I'm perhaps 99,9999998 % sure the Earth is round and that NASA/all space scientists aren't conspiring against us?

Then I'm perhaps 50% sure i will get accepted to the bachelor of Copenhagen, and 75% sure, I will get accepted at Odense.

And I'm also very sure my mother and father are my biological ones, even though I can't be 100% sure.

I'm also fairly sure my body will die if I jump out from a tower, yet even that isn't 100% given.

Edited April 19, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[WaveInTheOcean]

But yes, sometimes the common sense is completely wrong. For instance, just by looking out of the window, it should be common sense the ? is flat and that the ? is orbiting the ?! 

So sometimes what is common sense turns out to be completely wrong. Maybe one day, people will realize that the ?, like all other objects and concepts, are just a thought in the dream of God. ? But we gotta make distinctions between the relative and the absolute. 

[Nemra]

The fact that the earth was believed to be flat means that it can be believed to be anything. E.g. sphere, round, egg-shaped, etc.

[SgtPepper]

Yes because you can watch a boat cross the horizon and slowly go down versus getting further and further. Then use your reasoning abilities to know that the earth is not flat.

[Nahm]

@Holygrail

Could also contemplate, why, without any intervening, are bubbles round. We take stuff like that for granted. But when you blow bubbles, why aren’t they rectangular? How is it that anything can appear round in the first place.