Pentagon Confirms New UFO Video

[4201]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm not saying aliens are certain. I just assign it a fairly high probability given everything I understand about spirituality.

If you assign probabilities, you just don't know. However you want to compute your probabilities is entirely up to you, I'm only of the opinion that it is not known. Could watch your video series (and might do when I get the chance) but we already agree on the fact we don't know on the absolute sense.

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

See.... you are merely looking for direct evidence whereas I use a trans-human intelligence to interconnect 100s of different data points across dozens of different fields of study, many of which have nothing to do with UFOs or aliens at all. If you are operating from a stage Orange mindset you will not understand that depth of epistemic, metaphysical, and spiritual issues at work here. This goes way beyond the narrow confines of materialists science if these aliens are real. These aliens will be ridiculously conscious motherfuckers, beyond anything the human mind can fathom. Part of my life's work is to actually lay down an epistemic framework for how to understand alien minds, whenever they are encountered. They may not be encountered for a long time, but also, they might not visit us simply because they know we are too stupid to understand them.

Holy crap we are going deep with this one. Direct evidence is the only truth. You realized this many times before.

Why personally identify with aliens as part of your "life's work"? This just can't lead you anywhere good. You putting yourself in a position where aliens must exist for a part of your "life work" to be valid. This can easily lead to ignoring evidence in the favor of confirming the bias you created.

Edited June 9, 2021 by 4201

[Leo Gura]

39 minutes ago, 4201 said:

If you assign probabilities, you just don't know. However you want to compute your probabilities is entirely up to you,

Life is full of uncertain and probabilistic knowledge. Surprise! Welcome to reality!

Survival forces you to take a stance on knowing things even when you don't absolutely know it.

For example, you don't absolutely know that there are no microchips in your drinking water, but you take the chance to drink it any way because survival compels.

Quote

Holy crap we are going deep with this one. Direct evidence is the only truth. You realized this many times before.

This lacks nuance. Aliens are a relative phenomenon and therefore subject to relative empirical methods.

Most knowledge is incomplete and probabilistic.

Science deals with tons of indirect evidence.

And a UFO sighting is direct evidence.

Quote

Why personally identify with aliens as part of your "life's work"? This just can't lead you anywhere good. You putting yourself in a position where aliens must exist for a part of your "life work" to be valid. This can easily lead to ignoring evidence in the favor of confirming the bias you created.

It has nothing to do with identity or aliens. My interest in understanding Infinite Mind, epistemology, metaphysics, and consciousness. A framework for communicating with advanced intelligences would just be a cherry on top and a natural side-effect of my work.

Its obvious that whatever aliens visit us will be extremely intelligent and conscious.

[Preety_India]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Its obvious that whatever aliens visit us will be extremely intelligent and conscious.

This is a huge faux pas. Sure they will be intelligent if they're able to visit another planet and have the technology for it. 

However it's not necessary that they are conscious. Remember technology was also used to create nuclear wars. There was intelligence but not consciousness. 

The aliens might possibly possess greater abilities than us, but they could easily have destructive intent in mind 

Without knowing who they are, to make a blind conjecture that they will be highly conscious is a very distorted wrong perception. Very flawed judgment. 

[dlof]

11 hours ago, 4201 said:

If you want to talk about a specific case just link it. Abstract references to a number of cases don't do much. The cases linked in this thread has already been debunked, feel free to add more evidence if you have any.

Ok let's narrow things down to David Fravor since he's big in the media right now. But it's by no means the only case. He was a Navy Pilot with decades of experience,  was a Commander of a Squadron and he also trained a lot of pilots. The guy is highly qualified and in terms of arial phenomena identification and object sightings made by pilots. He would be your go to guy for this kind of stuff, and it so happens that he's one of the guys who saw this thing first hand.

Davd Fravor implies that what he saw could not be anything else other than technology which wasn't made by humans. He does so by saying it's clearly a craft demonstrating advanced technology and based on it's behaviour that it's clearly something that we haven't made.

Now if someone was completely neutral and they were presented with Fravor's view on what this thing is, an expert in arial phenomena and object sightings made by pilots etc., and this neutral party was also presented with the opinion of a rando on the politics subforum of a spiritual development forum, if they had to pick a side which side would be sensible for this person to take?

Edited June 9, 2021 by dlof

[Leo Gura]

41 minutes ago, dlof said:

Now if someone was completely neutral

Ah.... there's the rub

[DocWatts]

1 hour ago, dlof said:

Davd Fravor implies that what he saw could not be anything else other than technology which wasn't made by humans. He does so by saying it's clearly a craft demonstrating advanced technology and based on it's behaviour that it's clearly something that we haven't made.

That's a fair point, but the best that eyewitness testimony can do at this point (even when that comes from someone more qualified than most to speak about ariel phenomena) is demonstrate that there's something worth looking in to further using other empirical methods. 

Just saying that something is Alien in origin by a process of deduction still doesn't tell us what these things actually are, what they're doing here, if these are vehicles whether they're manned spacecraft or automated drones, etc. Also where they're coming from, what sort of technology these things possess, or whether or not whoever's controlling these things is actually interested in observing humans specifically. Are these craft intentionally trying to avoid detection? Or are legit sightings so incredibly rare that it just seems that way to us?

Eyewitness testimony alone, even from the most credible source in the world, will never be able to tell us most of what we would want to know about these things (beyond thier mere existence).

So yeah, saying that these objects warrant further study is Valid, even if their existence is already settled in your mind.

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Or are legit sightings so incredibly rare

Sighting are pretty common.The problem is if you will only trust sightings from a Navy commander, then yeah, that's gonna be rare.

That's like saying sightings of the moon are rare because the only ones which count are those by astronomers.

Just notice that it is your mind which is holding these ridiculous standards.

[DocWatts]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's like saying sightings of the moon are rare because the only ones which count are those by astronomers.

That's a bad analogy; under most circumstances (other than something incredibly contrived) the moon is a fairly unambiguous object. No one is going to mistake it for a bird or an airplane.

UFO sightings occur under what I'll charitably call suboptimal viewing conditions; at the very least there's a lot of room for ambiguity (leaving aside the cases that have been debunked).

My neighbor who works in a factory might mention that he thought he saw a deadly Black Mamba snake slither across his garden (a species that's native to Africa rather than North America), but I'd take the claim a lot more seriously if it were coming from my Zoologist friend who's an expect on Snakes (and actually knows what the hell they're talking about).

Not sure why we should trust randos who have no special expertise or qualifications on identifying ariel phenomena any more than we'd trust randos to come to thier own conclusions on how Covid spreads.

Edited June 9, 2021 by DocWatts

[Blackhawk]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

The eye witness testimonies are interesting, but then they smear them with those debunked videos. Why? The media should stop showing those fucking videos. Just focus on the eye witness testimonies.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Blackhawk

[StarStruck]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Seems like you guys haven't even watched the video series about UFOs I linked on my blog.

https://www.actualized.org/insights/new-york-post-ufo-series

Of course it's not some definitive proof. but it builds a powerful case if you watch it all with an open mind.

But again, those of you with closed minds shouldn't even watch it, because nothing can help you open your mind except an alien raping your in your sleep.

The game your mind is playing is: any evidence you receive, you will rationalize away.

You can lead a mule to water, but you can't make him drink.

So this guy was right from the start and people were making fun of him all those years:

[dlof]

5 hours ago, DocWatts said:

My neighbor who works in a factory might mention that he thought he saw a deadly Black Mamba snake slither across his garden (a species that's native to Africa rather than North America), but I'd take the claim a lot more seriously if it were coming from my Zoologist friend who's an expect on Snakes (and actually knows what the hell they're talking about).

Not sure why we should trust randos who have no special expertise or qualifications on identifying ariel phenomena any more than we'd trust randos to come to thier own conclusions on how Covid spreads.

Well this is like 100 people in your town seeing what they thought are Black Mambas, including your Zoologist friend who confirms they did indeed see a Black Mamba. If you doubt that anyone other than the Zoologist saw it, that would be pretty weird. The likelyhood would be that the vast majority of them were seeing Black Mambas since the Zoologist confirms that at least one is around town.

[DocWatts]

1 hour ago, dlof said:

Well this is like 100 people in your town seeing what they thought are Black Mambas, including your Zoologist friend who confirms they did indeed see a Black Mamba. If you doubt that anyone other than the Zoologist saw it, that would be pretty weird. The likelyhood would be that the vast majority of them were seeing Black Mambas since the Zoologist confirms that at least one is around town.

I'd counter that the situation being analogous to the vast majority of people in the area where I live having zero experience with snakes, and being unable to differentiate a Black Mamba from a dozen other species of similar looking North American Snakes at a glance. 

Could a Black Mamba have somehow made its way from another continent to North America, or have escaped captivity? It's certainly possible. If a rumor of such was spreading about, I would expect quite a few false positives from people who have no particular expertise in the type of phenomena they're trying to identify.

Likewise, do I trust that most ordinary people to correctly identify that the small blob in the sky is actually a UFO and not an optical illusion caused by something more conventional? Not so much.

Just because I'm willing to give the guy who has flown jets for 18 years a lot more credibility when he speaks about a strange encounter he had, doesn't automatically extend credibility to every person who interprets a blob they saw in the sky as an alien.

Or to put it another way: aliens might exist, but that doesn't mean that the vast majority of sightings aren't false positives.

Edited June 9, 2021 by DocWatts

[Shin]

They are there, I pray for your lower back my friends.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Shin

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, DocWatts said:

UFO sightings occur under what I'll charitably call suboptimal viewing conditions; at the very least there's a lot of room for ambiguity (leaving aside the cases that have been debunked).

Actually many UFO sightings are crystal clear to the people who report them.

Suboptimal viewing conditions is again a thing you made up. Seeing a commerical jet fly over your house at 30,000 ft is not a suboptimal viewing condition.

6 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

 but then they smear them with those debunked videos. Why? The media should stop showing those fucking videos.

Nothing has been debunked.

Your debunking is bunk itself.

[DocWatts]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Actually many UFO sightings are crystal clear to the people who report them.

Suboptimal viewing conditions is again a thing you made up. Seeing a commerical jet fly over your house at 30,000 ft is not a suboptimal viewing condition.

Yeah but i've also been on jets, and are familiar enough with them to place that object moving in a strait line at 30,000 feet in to a context that I can make sense of.

Now who can say that they have anything approaching a comparable level of familiarity about something from another world made with alien tech?

Edited June 9, 2021 by DocWatts

[Leo Gura]

You guys seem to not understand how science works. Scientific knowledge and theories are often provisional, incomplete, uncertain, and wrong. Yet that doesn't stop them from being seriously made and even taught in universities.

To say that UFOs are likely aliens is a perfectly scientific theory. This isn't some dogma to be held. It's a theory to be tested.

[Jodistrict]

I don't know if this is related, but I actually felt this and thought it was an earthquake.

 

"Mystery shaking felt, boom heard across San Diego County for third time in 2021"

"For the third time since February, a mysterious “skyquake” rattled San Diego County and Tijuana; authorities say it wasn’t an earthquake"

 

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/public-safety/story/2021-06-08/mystery-shaking-felt-boom-heard-across-san-diego-county-for-third-time-in-2021

[kray]

3 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

I don't know if this is related, but I actually felt this and thought it was an earthquake.

 

"Mystery shaking felt, boom heard across San Diego County for third time in 2021"

"For the third time since February, a mysterious “skyquake” rattled San Diego County and Tijuana; authorities say it wasn’t an earthquake"

 

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/public-safety/story/2021-06-08/mystery-shaking-felt-boom-heard-across-san-diego-county-for-third-time-in-2021

Underground nuke testing?

[DocWatts]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

To say that UFOs are likely aliens is a perfectly scientific theory. This isn't some dogma to be held. It's a theory to be tested.

I don't disagree with this. I may be more skeptical about the efficacy of eyewitness accounts, but aliens as a provisional Theory to be tested seems reasonable.

My disagreement stems less with the theory itself, and more with jumping to premature conclusions from data which is at this point highly ambiguous and interpretable.

I guess I would liken it somewhat to someone declaring that String Theory is "correct", rather than a highly provisional framework that's yet to be verified in a substantial way (and just be incorrect and the wrong way of looking st the problem).

Edited June 10, 2021 by DocWatts

[Opo]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's a theory to be tested.

If you had all the resources that you needed, how would you test it?