13 year old killed by chicago police

[Harikrishnan]

How many more killings will it take before you guys disarm police and take off guns right for public. Thank God, Indian police are more civilised than this and they dont have right to shoot without taking higher permission.

 

[Leo Gura]

I'm sorry but this kid was running with a handgun.

The media is going hogwild with these stories and framing them in a skewed way.

This kid had a gun in his hands in the middle of the night 1 second before he was shot. After shots were fired in the neighborhood.

He wasn't shot for no reason.

[Hello from Russia]

Why do you watch this? 

[meow_meow]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm sorry but this kid was running with a handgun.

Exactly, but it's completely being ignored by the media, because if they skip this 'little' detail that the kid had a gun they'll get more rage from people and more views, talk around it and popularity. Disgusting.
 

Quote

Indian police are more civilised

Oh hell no, give Indian people guns and see what happens.

Edited April 16, 2021 by meow_meow

[snowyowl]

This is a massive tragedy, I'm so sad to hear about it.

In a society awash with guns, the police need to be armed too, otherwise they can't do their job, so the answer is to de-escalate the arms race for everyone. It's the same problem with knives, young people in some areas feel they need to carry one for 'protection', and ofc that makes it more likely they'll be involved in a fight. Fewer weapons on the streets means less fear and we're less inclined to 'carry'. It's our choice: vicious circle or virtuous circle, but it's all relative don't expect perfection. 

Edited April 16, 2021 by snowyowl

[Harikrishnan]

15 minutes ago, meow_meow said:

 

Oh hell no, give Indian people guns and see what happens.

No we are good with other methods of killing people like here we do mob lynching.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Harikrishnan

[Harikrishnan]

48 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

Why do you watch this? 

 its not like i enjoy these kind of news, i dont even watch news daily or weekly but sadly today i decided to look at whats happening around the world . and this video randomly popped up in my YT when i saw a latino was pepper spayed by cops when sitting in car. and i am also subscribed to Rational national and majority report.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Harikrishnan

[Harikrishnan]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm sorry but this kid was running with a handgun.

The media is going hogwild with these stories and framing them in a skewed way.

This kid had a gun in his hands in the middle of the night 1 second before he was shot. After shots were fired in the neighborhood.

He wasn't shot for no reason.

Yes he was shot for a reason, kid could have went and killed many accidently.  but he put hands up, i can agree maybe the police couldnt understand what kid was doing and maybe his reflex pulled the trigger, but how about shooting on the leg? like here police is told to shoot on legs only. 

[Leo Gura]

29 minutes ago, Harikrishnan said:

but he put hands up

It is not obvious to a cop in the middle of the night that he put his hands up vs was turning around to aim his gun.

If the kid throws the gun aside 3 seconds earlier the cop doesn't know that.

[Harikrishnan]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It is not obvious to a cop in the middle of the night that he put his hands up vs was turning around to aim his gun.

If the kids throw the gun aside 3 seconds earlier the cop doesn't know that.

Turning around and aiming police man gun by a 13 year old? are these kids taught to handle aim and shoot at these age. This all feel like alien to me at that age i was running around with football. 

Anyway I agree with police shooting him coz he would have been a threat to many, but i wish they shooted him on the leg, poor child.

[trenton]

It seems that issue of police brutality will continue to be framed in a misleading way by the media.   When will it stop and when will the public recognize a better approach to the issue?  How do you think the media should be framing this issue?

If we frame a problem the wrong way, it can make us less effective at tackling the issue.  If you need a clearer example of police brutality, you could try this video.

It demonstrates that police are not properly trained to deal with the mentally ill.  I found further evidence of this on the global slavery index.  The victims of modern slavery are deeply traumatized.  Human traffickers also target illegal immigrants because of the language barrier and the fear deportation.

You can check out this site for more about police brutality in the recommended section.  Slavery is related to BLM through police brutality.

https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/findings/country-studies/united-states/

[Forestluv]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm sorry but this kid was running with a handgun.

The media is going hogwild with these stories and framing them in a skewed way.

This kid had a gun in his hands in the middle of the night 1 second before he was shot. After shots were fired in the neighborhood.

He wasn't shot for no reason.

This is a narrow view that misses important points.

1. By police's own standards, use of force can only be justified by the information an office had at the time. It must be considered through the lens of a "reasonable officer" based only on the information he had at the time. 

This is one of the most important issues that communities are upset with police. When police make assumptions, abuse/kill and then afterwards try to find evidence to justify the abuse/killing. 

2. The office, PD and police union lack integrity and have lost credibility. Before the bodycam video cam out, they did not tell the truth about the boy being unarmed with his hands up at the time of shooting. Getting caught lying to the public about police killings is highly corrosive to police-community trust. And it's not limited to this case or a "few bad apples". Everyone involved in issuing those initial statements lack integrity and should be held accountable, yet they won't be because there is noone with integrity to hold them accountable. Lying to the public combined with lack of accountability is even more corrosive to trust.

3. In determining justified reason for the shooting, we cannot assume the officer knew he had a gun in his hands. And since the officer and PD lied about the gun, his credibility is toast at this point. The only credible information is that there were shots fired in the neighborhood and a boy is running away from a cop. I would say, based on that information, the boy posed a risk yet not a threat. Shooting a boy running from a cop in a neighborhood that shots were fired does not seem like enough to me, yet I'm not an expert on police use of force. To me, that seems like someone who could be a suspect and might have gun (which is a risk). It's also very possible that it was a kid who wasn't involved and/or didn't have a gun. The cop said he shot in self defense, yet unfortunately his word no longer carries much weight since he has shown a gross lack of integrity. However, watching the video, the officer immediately responded by calling for an ambulance, performed CPR and encouraged the kid to hang in there. To me, this seemed genuine and I would consider that evidence that he genuinely believed the kid was armed and a threat. As well, he only had 0.8ms to react at night. That is about the threshold for how well an officer can react. 

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, meow_meow said:

Exactly, but it's completely being ignored by the media, because if they skip this 'little' detail that the kid had a gun they'll get more rage from people and more views, talk around it and popularity. Disgusting.

The police skipping a 'little detail' on the initial statements to the public is worse, imo. The statement said an armed person was shot and skipped the 'little' detail that he was unarmed with his hands up when shot. After such a disgusting statement, of course the media will respond by focusing on the fact that he was unarmed with his hands up when shot. 

The police bear some responsibility. The police showed a lack of integrity and misled the public. They should be held accountable for that.  Police lying to the public about killings is highly toxic to police-community trust and relations. 

[SS10]

@Leo Gura I dont think is this the point. No other developed country in the world has the policing problem that america has. There is a clear theme of gross misconduct by the police. You don't just get to assassinate children in the streets. Americans, included you Leo have come so accustomed to the brutality of the police that you don't even see this as a problem, you just shrugged off murder and managed to justify and rationalize it. There is no excuse for the way guns and police are handled in America - it is utterly appalling and the America needs to have a collective self reflection.

[Epikur]

 

[Forestluv]

@SS10 A lot of American's are so immersed in American gun culture they can't see how insane it is. Europe is much more sane and I think most American's would be shocked if they lived in European cities for a while. 

[SS10]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm sorry but this kid was running with a handgun.

Why was a 13 year old kid running around with a handgun? Do you not see the deeper problem. 

Why not tazer him? Why not confirm that he had a gun on him at the point of engagement?

Americans are so stupid and ideological about guns it is laughable. This happens nowhere else in the world.

[SS10]

@Forestluv Because Americans think the world revolves around them. America is one of the most corrupt places on earth. Just a much more sneaky form of corruption as opposed to some country in Africa.

I promise if an American was to live in Europe for 5 years their worldview would radically change.

Edited April 16, 2021 by SS10

[Epikur]

53 minutes ago, SS10 said:

@Forestluv Because Americans think the world revolves around them. America is one of the most corrupt places on earth. Just a much more sneaky form of corruption as opposed to some country in Africa.

I promise if an American was to live in Europe for 5 years their worldview would radically change.

Dedends. 15 years ago I met a student liberal girl from the US in Germany. She had ukranian background. She was thinking she will have a good time. Then she got so much verbally attacked for being an american that she said she became nationalistic.

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, SS10 said:

@Forestluv Because Americans think the world revolves around them. America is one of the most corrupt places on earth. Just a much more sneaky form of corruption as opposed to some country in Africa.

I promise if an American was to live in Europe for 5 years their worldview would radically change.

I agree that America has some sneaky forms of corruption, yet defining harm gets tricky. I have a colleague from Africa and he tells me that political corruption is much milder in America. Where is he is from, politicians would straight up imprison, assault, kill dissidents and adversaries. To him, Trump and Trumper republicans are very mild. I replied that American corruption can be sneaky and also cause widespread harm, yet he wasn't convinced.  

53 minutes ago, Epikur said:

Dedends. 15 years ago I met a student liberal girl from the US in Germany. She had ukranian background. She was thinking she will have a good time. Then she got so much verbally attacked for being an american that she said she became nationalistic.

Of course there is anti-Americanism. There will be anti-xxx-ism everywhere. Yet I question if intense anti-Americanism is widespread. In my experience, I've traveled to about 25 foreign countries. I would say in general being American carries more advantage than disadvantage.

As well, the vast majority of people I've met abroad are able to distinguish between American government and an individual American. I've met lots of people that had resentments against American government/policies, yet did not have anger toward me personally. 

As well, most societies I've met are pretty good at distinguishing between decent Americans and "ugly Americans". 

A lot of how one is treated depends on one's attitude. My attitude was that I just happened to be born in America, yet I don't have a strong identity of being "an American". I can see good and bad in America. Yet many Americans have a nationalist American identity, think America is best, never does anything wrong, deserves special treatment, entitled, we can kick anyone's ass if we want, ignorant about other cultures, geography and history etc. This is an ugly American and when they enter someone else's community with this attitude, it looks very ugly.