Does killing and eating animals have a place in conscious society?

[wwhy]

On 4/19/2021 at 5:33 AM, Tarzan said:

What would a life of an average cow, pig, chicken in the US, for example, look like from start to finish?  Documentaries help.

It would be like any other hunted wild animals life. I don't see chicken doing very well in the wild... everything would it them. Look at your mobile phone? Do you think its any different in terms of what was sacrificed so that you can have the leisure of using it? Or the plants you buy from the grocery store? You think animals did not suffer for your convenience? If you really care that much, go live in a commune that's completely cut of from modern life and its members produce and grow everything they consume, from food to furniture.

[Michael569]

On 19/04/2021 at 10:14 PM, Preety_India said:

We are not removed from nature just because we live in buildings, yes we are disconnected with it, in the sense we don't feel the aesthetic of nature around us, we don't feel natural enough, but this is not the nature we should appreciate, there is no need to, appreciate the good parts of nature, throw out the bad parts, nature is conscious in its own ways as explained in the Dao De Jing but what you're alluding to is a gross under appreciation to how far we have come in terms of consciousness, which is also a part of nature itself. Nature is not all mayhem, nature is also respecting the sacredness of life. You'll understand this if you get more intuitive. 

appeal to nature in a consciousness development debate does not have a lot of power. In the nature, a predator will come and kill your babies. They will steal your infant, rip them to pieces and eat them and if they didn't have enough they will come back and kill you as well. 

Nature is the most merciless and savage place there is. Nothing is there to protect you, every creature is 100% selfish. If we lived by nature it would be completely normal for your neighbour to murder your entire family, occupy your home, take all your possessions and get away with it with 0 consequences,. 

To put it into perspective, the nature is a mix of the environment you see in Fallout, Borderlands or Mad Max. Complete and utter ruthless savagery 

[wwhy]

On 4/20/2021 at 5:57 AM, Loba said:

The reason why humans have issues with disease, slavery, selfishness and whatnot is in part due to how we treat the planet and other species who live here.

Humans actually have it really good compared to some wild animals (eg those monkeys climbing slippery rocks just to sleep away from lions). How do you explain that?

[wwhy]

Atleast the farmers in the original post was going to eat the cows. This one is just shooting birds as "pest control"

 

[Carl-Richard]

7 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

To put it into perspective, the nature is a mix of the environment you see in Fallout, Borderlands or Mad Max. Complete and utter ruthless savagery 

People tend to forget that they've never actually experienced what nature is. They've lived their entire life with the softest man-made pillow under their ass.

 

Just now, Husseinisdoingfine said:

A vegan society is not fair to those who simply require animals foods. We all have different genetics and ancestries, and so to force us all to adopt a vegan diet is not fair.

Nobody is saying it's either veganism or death. That is a strawman. Make a meatman instead 

[wwhy]

15 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Nature is the most merciless and savage place there is. Nothing is there to protect you, every creature is 100% selfish. If we lived by nature it would be completely normal for your neighbour to murder your entire family, occupy your home, take all your possessions and get away with it with 0 consequences,. 

In nature, a species rarely, very rarely ever feeds off its own kind (am looking at you, spiders). So no, that's not nature or natural. And we all do live by nature whatever we eat, unless of-course you are growing and eating everything you eat. We are an apex predator, and that too, is nature.

[Michael569]

6 minutes ago, wwhy said:

species rarely, very rarely ever feeds off its own kind

agreed, it was a depiction of the fact that as long as you are not on the top of food chain (and even then not) your survival is never guaranteed. 

[Preety_India]

1 hour ago, Michael569 said:

appeal to nature in a consciousness development debate does not have a lot of power. In the nature, a predator will come and kill your babies. They will steal your infant, rip them to pieces and eat them and if they didn't have enough they will come back and kill you as well. 

Nature is the most merciless and savage place there is. Nothing is there to protect you, every creature is 100% selfish. If we lived by nature it would be completely normal for your neighbour to murder your entire family, occupy your home, take all your possessions and get away with it with 0 consequences,. 

To put it into perspective, the nature is a mix of the environment you see in Fallout, Borderlands or Mad Max. Complete and utter ruthless savagery 

Aren't we brutal to each other as humans as well?

 

[fridjonk]

2 hours ago, wwhy said:

Atleast the farmers in the original post was going to eat the cows. This one is just shooting birds as "pest control"

Pest control is actually really important for farmers. Birds can ruin fields completely and poke holes into wrapped bales. Same with varmints and foxes, they often tend to kill young lambs when they're out in fields.  The American mink for example goes around killing for fun, one of few animals that does that. 

[Michael569]

2 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Aren't we brutal to each other as humans as well?

but of course, the nature of survival doesn't end with animals

[Fadl]

 

[Tim R]

10 minutes ago, Fadl said:

 

This video is so misleading, when the dude talks about the problem of methane he starts addressing the carbon cycle (carbon isn't even a problem!!), but the methane is a problem as a greenhouse gas. The science on that is clear. It's much more reactive in the atmosphere than CO2. He simply put up a straw man just to knock it down with false interpretations. Yes, the amount of carbon within the cycle stays the same, but the amount of carbon bound as methane (CH4) increases with mass cow farming. It's no accident that the melting of permafrost is such a danger, because arctic methane emission will release a lot of methane which will speed up the process exponentially. 

[Eternal Unity]

You have two errors in your logic.

1. Killing is possible.

2. Doubt.

[Shin]

Go beyond green so you don't have to bash your head against the wall whenever you hear people talk about eating meat, it's normal that they do, and will continue to do so for a very long time.

Being mad and demonizing people that eat meat is not helping, I never saw an annoying vegan changes any meat eater point of view, if anything it just makes things worse.

Not only you feel bad about it, but you try to make other people feel bad for something they aren't even conscious it's a real problem, because it isn't for them.

It's as if a saint came to you every day telling you you're stupidly unconscious and dumb, that your materialistic way of seeing the world stink and is outdated, even dangerous, it's all your fault and you're a devil for doing so.

The truth is that you have no idea what that man says, not really, it makes no sense and it just pisses you off, because he's just being a pushy arrogant ass.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Shin

[TheDao]

People just don't have that much empathy. The world still uses lots of slaves for example. These people are easily seen not as humans like us. Or people who dont act exactly like us are quickly seen as insane and drugged and not so long ago electrified.

Same goes with pigs. Pigs like in the video go to the gas chambers daily in big amounts. Why? Cause we are to lazy to make something else that tastes just as good. Why do that effort if there is nothing to win for yourself? We don't feel any pain or suffering only they do and they can't do anything back. (apart from indirect new pandemics) . People are just not concerned that much with others.  Only there own wellbeing counts and a few around them maybe.

 

 

[Fadl]

4 hours ago, Tim R said:

This video is so misleading, when the dude talks about the problem of methane he starts addressing the carbon cycle (carbon isn't even a problem!!), but the methane is a problem as a greenhouse gas. The science on that is clear. It's much more reactive in the atmosphere than CO2. He simply put up a straw man just to knock it down with false interpretations. Yes, the amount of carbon within the cycle stays the same, but the amount of carbon bound as methane (CH4) increases with mass cow farming. It's no accident that the melting of permafrost is such a danger, because arctic methane emission will release a lot of methane which will speed up the process exponentially. 

The point is that veganism will never save the world.

Veganism is just distorted emotions.

[TheDao]

@Fadl Is an example of missing empathy. Doesn't understand how similar animals are to humans. He has nothing to lose or fear so why not let the male chicklets go to the gaschambers. He wont feel nothing and likes an egg at breakfast. He could eat 100 other things , but so what he won't have the tiniest pain for it.

All he has to do to fit his needs is to wash his conscience by fantasizing the other group is dysfunctional. This way he can keep his own feelings about this away. It's all about his survival/wellness.

Edited April 26, 2021 by TheDao

[Tim R]

1 hour ago, Fadl said:

The point is that veganism will never save the world.

Who claimed that it will? The cardboard sign of some 19 y/o hippie who demonstrates in front of a butchery?

And btw, the video is about eating less meat, not going vegan.

My point that the video is misleading is still valid, because instead of recognizing excessive meat consumption as a non-marginal contributor to the crisis, the video pretends that it's not a problem by setting up straw man arguments which it then knocks down by misinterpreting the science and thereby tries to make you feel good about it by subsequently scapegoating other industries as even worse. Which is true, but only because something else is more horrible than what you do, it doesn't mean that you can keep doing your only less horrible thing. 

2 hours ago, Fadl said:

Veganism is just distorted emotions.

Simply not true. In some cases it might be the result of an overly emotional reaction, but definitely not always. There are many reasons for why one could decide to go vegan.

[Tetcher]

Given the proportion of carbon emission due to meat industry if you're a meat eater you might as well be a climat change denier. But you're a meat eater and  oppose climat change deniers at the same time, go figure.

[kever]

On 16-4-2021 at 1:18 AM, aurum said:

@Lyubov

It's very possible that humans were made to eat animals and that an animal diet is optimal for human health. The research on the carnivore diet is interesting to say the least.

 

Not very up-to-date on this, but looking at human biology one would think we aren't build to live on a carnivorous diet (looking at our teeth and intestines). What do you think?