Is concealing your spiritual life/pursuits, being out of integrity?

[Vrubel]

I have just watched the latest video on integrity and something that made me think was the fact that I conceal my spiritual life/pursuits/interest/knowledge from other people. In a sense, I am hiding it and even lying about it.
I only let it surface in interactions with other people to the degree they are open-minded to it, which is not very. No one in my direct surroundings has any idea how seriously I take spirituality and how truly "crazy" my worldview is compared to theirs.

The most I can do is to talk about the positive and healing aspects of psychedelics when the conversation is already on that topic, but not much more than that. To my parents, I have never admitted that I have used it, even when casually asked. I think I will eventually tell my brother and sister. My brother is somewhat open-minded but still deeply materialistic in his worldview. My sister is not so materialistic so she might be more open to it, though she is still kinda young. I have a vision that somewhere in the future when the time is ripe, I will show them my stash and explain about it. 

In the meantime, Do you think I am being out of integrity for being in the "spiritual closet"?

[Sine]

I feel you deeply in this <3 I think it is a sort of integrity dissonance yes, and I have struggled with something like this myself. Just yesterday I had a great realization about how honesty and openness attract people into your life that you can be honest and open around - like a positive loop. But also, don't rush it. Maybe the people around you who are closeminded will follow you eventually, or maybe when you move further in your own development you will be able to communicate with more love and be more accepting and loving, so in that way, your honesty won't seem so scary to them and make them go into defense mode. Experience the journey from being out of integrity, slowly coming into it. No rush.  Small steps and walk with love.

[lmfao]

@Vrubel I have the same pattern of hiding or lying about my interest in it sometimes. Maybe nowadays not so much. 

Something I'm reminded of from this question. So my mum, she's Muslim. She knows I'm not Muslim, and but she wants me to be Muslim. She only occasionally brings it up, but it's still annoying. Thankfully she isn't too pushy about it. She's usually quite jokey but also serious at the same time. Whimsically serious. 

Anyway. Problem I've found with her, and many people, is that they don't have the capacity to understand the nuance of the spiritual path you're on. Too many people are only familiar with dogmatic and conceptual spirituality. A private inquiry or investigation into truth isn't well understood. 

She asks me shit like "So what are you? [she's asking what religion I follow] You are nothing?!", it just makes me laugh and I say yes. Perhaps it is in some ways a blessing she doesn't know words like atheist or agnostic to conceptually guess what I am, and instead just says "nothing". And that's accurate 

Although there's a language and intellectual barrier with me trying to talk to her, I don't think that makes a difference to people in general not getting it. They'll only get it if they're familiar with the domain. 

 

I don't take psychedelics, but if I did.... Lmao yeah you can guess my family wouldn't understand that. On top of that, I have a family history of psychosis, so they'd be worried about me developing that. Maybe my siblings could understand. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by lmfao

[Vrubel]

9 hours ago, Sine said:

I feel you deeply in this <3 I think it is a sort of integrity dissonance yes, and I have struggled with something like this myself.

Thank you for the kind words.

9 hours ago, Sine said:

I had a great realization about how honesty and openness attract people into your life that you can be honest and open around - like a positive loop. But also, don't rush it. Maybe the people around you who are closeminded will follow you eventually, or maybe when you move further in your own development you will be able to communicate with more love and be more accepting and loving, so in that way, your honesty won't seem so scary to them and make them go into defense mode. Experience the journey from being out of integrity, slowly coming into it. No rush.  Small steps and walk with love.

This definitely resonates

I used to be very closed off, but looking back it was mostly because of fear of being judged and "ostracized".
Now that I am more mature and independent I care less about these things and I am gradually revealing myself. (Though I still have a long way to go.) Becoming more open feels like really claiming my place in the world and freeing myself from the illusionary social and societal shackles. I always admired and was jealous of people who could be so open as nothing to hide. I thought that I could never be so open because my interests and personality are so out of whack with societal norms. 

To me, honesty, openness and integrity go hand in hand and are the same thing really. It takes courage to choose openness over being closed, but ultimately this courage will cut through a lot of bullshit and people will respect you more. 

I have a nice little example of true integrity as manifested by an old study mate of mine. During some silly drinking game, he was asked the question of whether he ever felt sexually attracted to his mother. He answered: "Maybe" (of course implying that he did, otherwise he would just say no). Instead of ridiculing him my respect and everyone else's respect for him skyrocketed. There literally was a silent pause of respect. His honesty awestruck us.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Vrubel

[Vrubel]

9 hours ago, lmfao said:

I have the same pattern of hiding or lying about my interest in it sometimes. Maybe nowadays not so much. 

Something I'm reminded of from this question. So my mum, she's Muslim. She knows I'm not Muslim, and but she wants me to be Muslim. She only occasionally brings it up, but it's still annoying. Thankfully she isn't too pushy about it. She's usually quite jokey but also serious at the same time. Whimsically serious. 

Anyway. Problem I've found with her, and many people, is that they don't have the capacity to understand the nuance of the spiritual path you're on. Too many people are only familiar with dogmatic and conceptual spirituality. A private inquiry or investigation into truth isn't well understood. 

She asks me shit like "So what are you? [she's asking what religion I follow] You are nothing?!", it just makes me laugh and I say yes. Perhaps it is in some ways a blessing she doesn't know words like atheist or agnostic to conceptually guess what I am, and instead just says "nothing". And that's accurate 

Although there's a language and intellectual barrier with me trying to talk to her, I don't think that makes a difference to people in general not getting it. They'll only get it if they're familiar with the domain. 

 

Very inspiring, it takes courage to resist/grow out of religious conformity if you are born in such a situation. The only thing that I can say is that you still need to respect and appreciate your mum. Because first of all, she is your mom, and second: It could be a lot worse. In some religious societies or families, people ostracise or do violence against people who leave the religion. So be grateful for the love and relative liberality of your mother. 

 

9 hours ago, lmfao said:

I don't take psychedelics, but if I did.... Lmao yeah you can guess my family wouldn't understand that. On top of that, I have a family history of psychosis, so they'd be worried about me developing that. Maybe my siblings could understand. 

I have an uncle with psychosis, He is mentally ill. He had a very tough and traumatizing childhood. As I understood he is a somewhat bohemian spiritual person and did a lot of psychedelics and now he is in prison because of some of the stupid and senseless things he has done.  

My father had a similar childhood to his but he came out as a functioning human being, traumatized but functioning nonetheless. He has never done psychedelics and partially blames them for the insanity of his brother. He also really fears that I end up like him.

I would like to think that I have the spiritual drive of my uncle but the mental strength of my father. But maybe I am just being silly.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Vrubel

[Dingo]

Same problem for years...

Lately Ive been trying to integrate my philosophy, my learned lessons and life purpose throughout my whole life.

Im very picky as to with whom I spend my spare time. If they cannot stand a conversation about love, psychedelics or personal development, I skip.

In uni classes, when we are taught a concept or theory, I like to share concrete examples from my own life. Usually I pick ones, that are aligned with my life purpose (in short, drug harm-reduction and psychonautics), which is stigmatized, but I dont care... I speak my mind and give great examples, that cannot be denied. In this process, Im destigmatizing the topic drugs as well (integrity meets going meta), because I make it seem so casual.

Im building up to work in a company, that is fully integratous with my philosophy. If there is no company open enough to allow me in, I will build my own.

I remember the moment from which I started embodying myself in this greater capacity. The fire in my soul has been lit. I feel powerful, unstoppable and capable of achieving the unimaginable (im constantly checking myself against any selfish excesses). Integrating SD stage red has been key for my fire being lit (along with the second-tier levels).

[Nahm]

@Vrubel

Integrity is between you and source, not you and others. 

[lmfao]

15 hours ago, Vrubel said:

Very inspiring, it takes courage to resist/grow out of religious conformity if you are born in such a situation. The only thing that I can say is that you still need to respect and appreciate your mum. Because first of all, she is your mom, and second: It could be a lot worse. In some religious societies or families, people ostracise or do violence against people who leave the religion. So be grateful for the love and relative liberality of your mother. 

Oh I do, you don't need to worry about that. She's a joker and so I'm a joker as well with her. 

15 hours ago, Vrubel said:

I have an uncle with psychosis, He is mentally ill. He had a very tough and traumatizing childhood. As I understood he is a somewhat bohemian spiritual person and did a lot of psychedelics and now he is in prison because of some of the stupid and senseless things he has done.  

My father had a similar childhood to his but he came out as a functioning human being, traumatized but functioning nonetheless. He has never done psychedelics and partially blames them for the insanity of his brother. He also really fears that I end up like him.

I would like to think that I have the spiritual drive of my uncle but the mental strength of my father. But maybe I am just being silly.

Interesting. No, you aren't being silly. 

Honestly, I don't know much about the upbringing of my aunty or my cousin who had psychosis. I ask my mum about her own upbringing but she doesn't say or remember many details. So my aunty (who's now dead) and her alive son had psychosis (he's better now more or less). 

I also have an uncle from the same side of my family who isn't psychotic, but like he's extremely religious with strange/severe practices. He's probably moderately bipolar. But because he lives in Asia and not the west, people respect religion and people like that more there, so he has a functioning life. 

 

But back to this topic of psychedelics. I might not take psychedelics for a while, and even then I'd be careful. I have dpdr issues, and an already tentative/floaty perception of self, I don't want to screw with it more. 

That said. For some strange reason I get the hunch I'll need large doses to get the same effect as other people, but that's just a random thing my mind is making up. I have no evidence or reason to think so. 

Edited April 16, 2021 by lmfao

[Heaven]

17 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Vrubel

Integrity is between you and source, not you and others. 

Can you elaborate please?

 

[Nahm]

@Heaven

When discord is already present & felt... what people might think, if they’ll relate or understand, if they’ll accept, and the ‘process’ of ‘resolving’ this in thinking leads back to that discord, which is between truth and the thoughts, not a person and another person, not one’s thought’s on another’s potential or possible thoughts. The psychedelics are no different. They’re attentive to what other people might think like a steam roller is attentive to an ant. 

[Hello from Russia]

@Vrubel if his mother is a hot milf what's a shame in that? 

Nice topic, definitely share the same struggles as you guys