What do I do with this specific girl?

[Valach]

Hi all,

I am looking for an advice regarding one of my relationship. Three months ago, I started seeing this girl I met on tinder. We started sleeping together and from the get go I though it won't develop further past fwb situation. I actually didn't want to have realtionship because I am still in a learning phase of a pickup and planned on continuing so again in summer ( when the lockdown in my country should be gone ). At the time I was seeing also 2 other girls. But after maybe like a 3 weeks I stopped seeing other girls and kept only this one. I was communicating with her right away that I am not looking for realitionship which I could sense that she was (and she even told me that she would want to date me)

My mistake regarding this, since I am not the most experienced one is that I didn't handle our fwb realitinship correctly. I would see her way too often ( sometimes up to 4 times a week ) and I would do plenty of things besides sex with her ( sports, trips etc.) My wingman and mentor who is way more experienced told me that it's a realitionship without the label of it. The super wird thing regarding this girl was that when I was with her I was kinda "meh" about her, not caring at all and such. But the next day when she left, I would be thinking about her a lot and wanting to see her again, which confused me a lot.

Anyway 1 month ago (2 months into seeing each other) she come over that we need to talk and told me that she can't keep going like that and she want a more then just a fwb and want's to break up with me. Although I was hurt a bit I was fine with that and we spent last day together. But the next day she was drinking with her friends and wrote me that she takes the break up back and want's to keep it as it was and I took her back since I didn't care that much.  Btw. We were an exclusive fwb so we werent seeing anyone else.

Weirdly enough, like 2 weeks ago I started feeling like I am catching feeling toward her. Or rather I felt like its the same dynamic as in when I am with her I don't care but when I am not a care a lot, but the feeling when i am not with her got stronger. Part of it could be that I introduced her to some of might friends recently and also I feel like she tried to make me jealous a little ( i told her i am not jealous at all ) by flirting with some of my friends or saying that some of her guys from past are hitting her up and such. 

At this point I don't know what I should do. I don't think this arrangment as it is is possible with me anymore. I just don't know what should I do, should I tell her I could see us dating now? Or break it off since I still want to ( or rather I feel like I have to ) do pickup, since I am still very much inexperienced and shy. Or maybe just lower down the amount of time we are spending together, that could help.

Anyone experienced could help me out of this? I feel like this is draining me a lot of mental energy I should be focusing on something else.

[LastThursday]

Personally I think you're over thinking the whole situation. Switch off your problem solving brain and go with your feelings. Actually give yourself a chance to enjoy the unique situation you're in.

Every relationship is different whether that's friends, FWB or full on attached or anything inbetween. If the girl can't make her mind up or wants more, then just go with the flow. Just be very clear in your communication: if she breaks up with you, then you're going to go with other women - simple, straightforward. If she wants more, then say to her "ok" and give it a go - don't over think it. Or just set a time limit if you're daring enough: "let's date for one month and see how it goes after that". Or literally just flow with it, be like a leaf in the wind, enjoy the breeze. Let her test you and pretend you're not bothered, play the game.

[Roy]

Well do you really want to keep doing pick-up right now? Or consider that you could always go back to pick-up later on in your life.

What matters is expressing how you really feel and accepting the consequences of it. This overthinking and hoping for the "right" answer like it's logical math question shit, is only doing you AND her a disservice.

Are those feelings for her genuine, you enjoy being together, and there isn't anything toxic about the relationship?

Then what are you waiting for. Commit to each other and see what happens.

[Preety_India]

The feeling that I'm getting here is that you love her more than she loves you. 

 

This might sound harsh. She doesn't love you and doesn't care about you. And you are much better off without her. 

She is interested in playing games though which brings to my mind the term TOXIC WOMAN. she is a toxic woman. She likes what she is doing and it feeds her. Which is not a good sign at all. 

A good woman will just walk away and then just walk away, you know what I mean. 

When I broke up with my ex, I was not trying to make him jealous, I simply moved on. Just to give you an example. 

Her behavior is toxic. 

Please forget her. Not because there are so many women and that bullshit. It doesn't matter how many women are out there. 

You deserve a good partner, this. This is the reason you must forget this person and not deal with their drama any more. And you know what happens with such people is that they begin to drain your mental energy. 

I describe such people as "toxic hearts." 

Big lesson for you to learn here is. Be wary. Throw such people out. And never attract such people again. 

 

 

[flowboy]

@Valach What do you think would be best for her?

Is it in her best interest to be with a guy who can't commit to her, is one foot in, one foot out, never sure about her, and wants to do pickup instead of seeing her?

[Emerald]

It seems like you both have feelings for one another.

And you're trying to deny it to yourself. And she's trying to make you jealous to get you to realize that you like her. 

My advice is just to go with your intuition and feelings and see where it leads. Don't let your ideas over-ride your intuition. 

[Valach]

7 hours ago, Roy said:

Well do you really want to keep doing pick-up right now? Or consider that you could always go back to pick-up later on in your life.

I do. Its not just about getting a woman since I am at a point where I am able to get and keep decent girls in my life. The problem is that I am still to a degree overcoming my shyness and social anxiety ( I am ok in 1on1 scenario but I have trouble being myself around more people) and I want to solve it now since its holding me back carrer wise and I am not happy with this.

 

6 hours ago, Peter Miklis said:

Just wait for the summer. If she's already trying to play jealousy games, it's time to cut her off. You shouldn't have to deal with any bullshit from any specific woman, there's too many of them.

 

4 hours ago, Preety_India said:

The feeling that I'm getting here is that you love her more than she loves you. 

 

This might sound harsh. She doesn't love you and doesn't care about you. And you are much better off without her. 

She is interested in playing games though which brings to my mind the term TOXIC WOMAN. she is a toxic woman. She likes what she is doing and it feeds her. Which is not a good sign at all. 

A good woman will just walk away and then just walk away, you know what I mean. 

When I broke up with my ex, I was not trying to make him jealous, I simply moved on. Just to give you an example. 

Her behavior is toxic. 

Please forget her. Not because there are so many women and that bullshit. It doesn't matter how many women are out there. 

You deserve a good partner, this. This is the reason you must forget this person and not deal with their drama any more. And you know what happens with such people is that they begin to drain your mental energy. 

I describe such people as "toxic hearts." 

Big lesson for you to learn here is. Be wary. Throw such people out. And never attract such people again. 

 

 

Maybe I was a bit harsh in my description, but she is not some super manipulative crazy. She just likes me and does these things most girls would probably do in her position. I mean she is 22, not many people are developed at that age to be aware of these things anywawy ( i am 24 ).

2 hours ago, flowboy said:

@Valach What do you think would be best for her?

Is it in her best interest to be with a guy who can't commit to her, is one foot in, one foot out, never sure about her, and wants to do pickup instead of seeing her?

Yeah. I was thinking about this viewpoint a lot. I though that it would be best for her if I broke things off. On the other hand, I even asked her if she is waiting for me to end it and if that is what she wants. She told me she wanted that in the past since she have fallen for me, but no she is kinda at peace with how things are. She said multiple times she doesnt love me, but I have this feeling it just might be a lie she is telling me and especially herself to not get hurt. She doesnt want to acknowledge her feelings probably.

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

It seems like you both have feelings for one another.

And you're trying to deny it to yourself. And she's trying to make you jealous to get you to realize that you like her. 

My advice is just to go with your intuition and feelings and see where it leads. Don't let your ideas over-ride your intuition. 

Good insight. I am feeling the same. I just feel there is bigger purpose regarding dating for me. And I know I can learn so much about woman and myself if I keep doing what I have been doing before pandemic. If I get into a realitionship with her and it lasts, I will stagnate regarding my woman skills. And it won't probably alllow me to be fully myself around her since I am still little in scarcity. Will contamplate this. Thank you for advice

[universe]

You can develop yourself as a man even while holding a relationship. No excuses.

You are doing it right now.

[integral]

1) Consider expanding what a relationship means. Open relationship? Swingers? Polyamorous? 

2) Do you actually like her? Do you actually see her as a friend with out the sex glasses on? Remove the sex and affection, would you spend time with her? If she was male would you be spending any time with him and enjoy talking to him as friends? 

[Preety_India]

1 hour ago, Valach said:

She said multiple times she doesnt love me, but I have this feeling it just might be a lie she is telling me and especially herself to not get hurt. She doesnt want to acknowledge her feelings probably.

LOL. Then you both are toxic to each other. Hurt feelings on both sides if you both can't sort it out. 

If you have fallen hard for her, and you deny her a full fledged relationship, then it's bad for her. If she doesn't love you as she says then she needs to make up her mind and not keep confusing. The nature of this relationship is toxic and murky. There is no openness on both ends. 

 

[Valach]

17 minutes ago, integral said:

1) Consider expanding what a relationship means. Open relationship? Swingers? Polyamorous? 

2) Do you actually like her? Do you actually see her as a friend with out the sex glasses on? Remove the sex and affection, would you spend time with her? If she was male would you be spending any time with him and enjoy talking to him as friends? 

1, I would be very open to having and open realitinship with her, where I can be seeing other girls. She is not into it.

2, I do. I can see as remaining friends even when this is over. I actually didn§t want to sleep with her in the beginning so I can keep her as a friend. Ups, here I am.

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Valach said:

, I would be very open to having and open realitinship with her, where I can be seeing other girls. She is not into it.

This will never work. Because you want other girls. She wants an exclusive relationship. You still want her around. 

You don't love her either because you want other girls. You just want her around so you don't feel lonely. 

She also does not love you because she is not open about her feelings.. 

You both need deserve different people to satisfy your needs. 

 

[Valach]

8 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

This will never work. Because you want other girls. She wants an exclusive relationship. You still want her around. 

You don't love her either because you want other girls. You just want her around so you don't feel lonely. 

She also does not love you because she is not open about her feelings.. 

You both need deserve different people to satisfy your needs. 

 

Do you think you cannot love and care about someone and still see other people?

[integral]

@Valach Its possible to love many people at the same time. 

If she is friend material and the only thing stopping you from long term dating is that you want to self actualize with pick up then find another way to self actualize. A natural part of self acualizing is going to move away from pick anyways, So long term you want to move away from it, better off doing it now and find new training tools. Maybe you and her can do something social together, explore possibilities. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by integral

[Preety_India]

8 minutes ago, Valach said:

Do you think you cannot love and care about someone and still see other people?

But you know that's not how relationships work unless you are in an open relationship. Don't kid yourself. How many women would feel loved if you're seeing other women on the side? Be honest. 

 

[flowboy]

9 hours ago, Valach said:

If I get into a realitionship with her and it lasts, I will stagnate regarding my woman skills.

But what is the point of woman skills? Are they the end-all-be-all? Or are they the way to get into a relationship? Which you could be in right now?

 

I'm not pushing you either way, but you need to step up as a man and make a decision on what you want, and stand by it. Letting her, or the situation, decide for you is weakness and won't serve you long term.

Edited April 15, 2021 by flowboy

[intotheblack]

It sounds like she does like you or she wouldn’t be still hanging around.  She is secretly hoping for something more but won’t tell you that since you are keeping distance with her, she doesn’t feel that safety that she needs to be completely open and vulnerable with you, for fear that if she does you will leave....And you proved this before, she was open with you and you left.  So she panicked and wanted you back.  Sounds like an anxious attachment !! 
So she’s playing it cool and pretending not to care.

you also have found that relationship bonding and intimacy is something that naturally starts to happen after spending lots of time together, you’ve gotten a taste for what real intimacy could be like if you would dive into it fully with no regrets. 
 
The options I see are these 

- you end things now, make a clean break and move on. Don’t keep seeing eachother for sex. at least for a while have no contact. If you want to remain friends later then fine.  But sex + friends don’t last long term.

- continue as you are, let the relationship run it’s course. Eventually she will get bored with the situation, because it won’t be emotionally fulfilling for her long term.  She will meet another guy who can give her what she wants and won’t think twice to leave you... or... she will wisen up and go put her efforts into other areas of life and realise the whole thing was a waste of time. 
 

- you start a committed relationship with this girl.  You commit to your self actualisation and learn how to navigate a relationship.  You will have some of your biggest lessons in a relationship! You will realise things about yourself that you wouldn’t being alone. You will be challenged and pushed to be a better person. You learn what it means to really love.  You become a team, and grow together.  You can still learn social skills by going out together in groups... pickup is not the only way to learn that! 
 

  

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by intotheblack

[intotheblack]

If you don’t allow someone to feel in a safe zone with them where they can be completely themselves and vulnerable about how they feel, then they will act cold and put on a false front.  If you prove to them that you will leave when they are honest, which is what happened in your situation, they will try to change themselves so that you don’t leave again.  This is definitely a sign of anxious attachment and was likely a dynamic in the childhood.  
People with anxious attachment are better suited to someone with a secure attachment style. The worst partner for them is someone who is avoidant (you maybe) 

so ask yourself are you secure enough for the emotional responsibility of a relationship. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by intotheblack

[intotheblack]

4 minutes ago, Peter Miklis said:

 

19 minutes ago, intotheblack said:

You can still learn social skills by going out together in groups...

You can only learn what you practice. There are specific skills and minsets when it comes to getting women. He won't learn them by hanging out with friends

 

The point is that if he’s in a relationship he will be getting sex so won’t need to be ‘getting women’

in fact he can put his efforts into other areas of life

[Valach]

Update:

We saw each other yesterday and she admitted that for like last 2 weeks she was just pretending that she's cooled down her emotions but its still there. Today she wrote me that she loves me so I suggested that we call each other and she told me she can't continue like that and broke things off. We agreed that we will meet at least once to talk about it since I we don't want to end things over the phone, but I don't think she is gonna change her mind this time which I am fine with and think it's better for her. She told me she would like to still see each other from time to time and be friends and I would love that too but I am not sure if she can handle it, maybe few months later.

 

Anyway @flowboy was  right that I should a be a man and make decision. The girl was suffering, I knew it and did nothing. What I find hard to manage is thinking win/win in regards to girls. It's doable when you do pickup or in seduction phase. But how do I do it regarding realitionships, when my agenda goes directly against girls? That's something i need to contemplate.

 

Anyway, thank all of you for your advice. You are wise people with great intentions