High value guy is mostly made, high value girl is mostly born

[Jacob Morres]

@SamC that takes a lot of courage man to say that. Thanks for speaking up 

[empathysarah]

This whole entire discussion just doesn't resonate with me at all; it feels so alien to me

[wwhy]

3 minutes ago, empathysarah said:

This whole entire discussion just doesn't resonate with me at all; it feels so alien to me

Why did you have to say that... you are practically begging for a response...

If it did not resonate with you... you would not feel the need to respond. Maybe a better way of putting it is that it resonates negatively with you

 

[empathysarah]

@Karmadhi we are so much more susceptible to trauma. Guys are born with more testosterone along with other social norms that aid them more easily when it comes to handling trauma. You have no idea what its like to deal with dissociation, feeling unsafe in your own body, extreme empathy and sensitivity. We are the bosom of mother earth, these are such crude comparisons between men and women. It totally neglects many other contexts that make a woman and a man themselves both beyond and inside their trauma, which are almost two or more different beings depending on who you are. 

[Display_Name]

 

On 4/14/2021 at 3:08 PM, Karmadhi said:

So i would like your thoughts on this. I have noticed that society places the majority of the girls social value on her looks and a bit on how feminine her beaviour is. Looks for the most part are something you are born with. Yes taking care of yourself and stuff can help quite a bit but it can only get you so far. Meanwhile a guy's value is a lot more social, things like ambition, social skills, confidence, charisma, financial stability, wisdom etc. These things are given a lot of value in society. If you look at the most high value guys on the world they are usually guys on their 50s with high charisma and money and status. Unless you are born into a super rich family (trump jr for example hehe) then you gotta work for that. You are not born a confident charismatic funny wealthy guy, you become one through work.

Now good looking guys which are naturally born like that do have a lot of things easier, that is for sure. However a 9/10 looking guy does not have near the value that a 9/10 looking girl does, based on just looks alone. 

This has both advantages and disadvantages for both sexes.

The advantage for guys is that they have a lot more freedom than girls do to increase their worth, and if they stop being lazy and work on themselves they can become a high value guy a lot more reliably than a girl can.

The disadvantage for guys  is that they do not get freebies like hot girls do.

For girls it is a lot more deterministic, if you are born pretty your life will be on easy mode, you can be a total loser and still be valued by society and marry some wealthy guy and live well. If you are not pretty it will be harder but these days with surgery and stuff there is still hope.

Now when i say high value i am talking striclty on survival terms, because that is what society values. Stuff like inner beauty even though would be considered part of a high value person on this forum, society does not reward it much so i am not talking it into account. 

Confident charming asshole= High value guy.

Weak kind caring person= Low value guy.

Hot bitchy dumb girl= High value girl.

Ugly smart caring girl= Low value girl.

This is how survival and hence society views people. This is the logic i used on this post. It seems super disgusting and cruel and well survival is just that, disgusting and cruel.

 

You are correct

[SamC]

35 minutes ago, wwhy said:

The way I'm seeing it, is that they've been a bit of bitter, anti-women posts here lately (maybe its always that way, but in the one week I've been back and actively reading... that's what am seeing). And the female people in here are just reacting to that vybe with their own negativity. Feeling triggered and misunderstood is just one of the many reactions you can choose to have.

@wwhy For sure but that doesn´t mean that my feelings of being misunderstood or hurt are invalid. They are there.

I understand why it happens, and I am sorry that they have to experience that but the guys who express anti-woman ideas can´t help it, just as little, as they can´t help themselves to not react against it. They have the right to feel that way and express whatever they feel. It´s okay. They are allowed to feel misunderstood, angry, sad, hurt, and frustrated + expressing that fully, just like I have to right to express how that, in turn, makes me feel.

This whole sex war dynamic is in reality just a basic negative feedback loop that puts hurt on hurt, and I believe the first step to go meta on it ( and seek out a solution) is to acknowledge how it makes us feel so that we can learn that we basicialy experience the same type of distress and negative emotions from both judging the other sex and being judged by the other sex. Both sides feel misunderstood - so I think it´s time we try to understand each other.

[wwhy]

38 minutes ago, empathysarah said:

@Karmadhi we are so much more susceptible to trauma. Guys are born with more testosterone along with other social norms that aid them more easily when it comes to handling trauma. You have no idea what its like to deal with dissociation, feeling unsafe in your own body, extreme empathy and sensitivity.

Let me tell you something that will absolutely blow your mind if you have the presence, and humility to entertain it.

None of us actually knows what it feels like to be another human being. We might think we know, and so when we point at the color red, and ask what do your see and they say "red", but are they are seeing exactly the same color "red" as us? How can we really tell, unless we are them? "Red" is just a word for something out there... it does not really capture the experience of what red looks like to me, or to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr7Ec5IvWzo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3Kzd-wB3wM

When you say guys are born with more testorone and yadayada yada... you are actually assuming you know what it feels like to be a guy. And that's the only way you'd have the confidence to state what a guy feels is not what you feel. But do you really know what a man feels? How he sees the world in all it's colors, shapes, sounds, and forms? Do you really know how your fellow women see, feel, smell, hear and touch the world? We are all just assuming we know... but do we really know how anyone else experiences this world?

Edited April 16, 2021 by wwhy

[wwhy]

30 minutes ago, SamC said:

@wwhy For sure but that doesn´t mean that my feelings of being misunderstood or hurt are invalid. They are there.

I understand why it happens, and I am sorry that they have to experience that but the guys who express anti-woman ideas can´t help it, just as little, as they can´t help themselves to not react against it. They have the right to feel that way and express whatever they feel. It´s okay. They are allowed to feel misunderstood, angry, sad, hurt, and frustrated + expressing that fully, just like I have to right to express how that, in turn, makes me feel.

This whole sex war dynamic is in reality just a basic negative feedback loop that puts hurt on hurt, and I believe the first step to go meta on it ( and seek out a solution) is to acknowledge how it makes us feel so that we can learn that we basicialy experience the same type of distress and negative emotions from both judging the other sex and being judged by the other sex. Both sides feel misunderstood - so I think it´s time we try to understand each other.

All I can say is this: our feelings are not the truth.

The truth is what HAS happened.

Our feelings are just an interpretation of what is happening around us at the moment. The closer your interpretation of what is happening is to what is actually happening (the truth), then the more grounded/stable/woke/enlightened/whatever you are. Your feelings are real, valid and true to you... but realize this... a more evolved you would have a very different set of valid feelings, closer to the truth. A more devolved you, will have a different set of valid feelings, further from the truth.

Edited April 16, 2021 by wwhy

[SamC]

2 minutes ago, wwhy said:

All I can say is this: our feelings are not the truth.

The truth is what HAS happened.

Our feelings are just an interpretation of what is happening around us at the moment. The closer your interpretation of what is happening is to what is actually happening (the truth), then the more grounded/stable/woke/enlightened/whatever you are. Your feelings are real, valid and true to you... but realize this... a more evolved you would have a very different set of valid feelings, closer to the truth. A more devolved you, will have a different set of valid feelings, further from the truth.

It all depends on how we look at it. Everything is relative (; What is true in this relative perspective is those feelings. What is absolutely true is another question which basically is how the world is without us projecting anything to it.

 

 

[Karmadhi]

I love how when i say a simple observation about how society and survival works this whole forum goes ablaze and they start talking about how stage orange this section is etc. GUYS IF YOU DID NOT NOTICE SOCIETY IS MOSTLY STAGE ORANGE, of course what is considered high value will be based purely on survival. When you guys say integrity trustworthiness etc is high value well it is it not on our society. I doubt the most successful people have a lot of those qualities, they are mostly selfish devils. Devilry is rewarded these days, not human decency. 

When it comes to dating, value is purely on survival terms. A kind caring person is worthless in survival terms, hence his value in society regarding dating is low. A kind caring fat girl and a kind caring weak wimp guy will not have success on the dating market. Denying this is like denying that water is wet and fire is hot. 

 

 

[wwhy]

11 minutes ago, SamC said:

It all depends on how we look at it. Everything is relative (; What is true in this relative perspective is those feelings. What is absolutely true is another question which basically is how the world is without us projecting anything to it.

 

 

The more enlightened/saved/good/woke/conscious/whatever you are, the more closer your perceptions/direct-experience/whatever is to the TRUTH. Yes? No? Maybe? Talk to me...

[Karmadhi]

@Display_Name Thank you for understanding what i meant and not making this a personal attack on the guys of this forum.

[wwhy]

3 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

When it comes to dating, value is purely on survival terms. A kind caring person is worthless in survival terms, hence his value in society regarding dating is low. A kind caring fat girl and a kind caring weak wimp guy will not have success on the dating market. Denying this is like denying that water is wet and fire is hot. 

Okay. Give me an example/story of what a kind caring man would do.

[SamC]

 

2 minutes ago, wwhy said:

The more enlightened/saved/good/woke/conscious/whatever you are, the more closer your perceptions/direct-experience/whatever is to the TRUTH. Yes? No? Maybe? Talk to me...

Of course

[wwhy]

18 minutes ago, SamC said:

It all depends on how we look at it. Everything is relative (; What is true in this relative perspective is those feelings. What is absolutely true is another question which basically is how the world is without us projecting anything to it.

 

 

How you look at it IS RELATIVE. How it really is is ABSOLUTE (the truth).

[SamC]

Just now, wwhy said:

How you look at it IS RELATIVE. How it really is is ABSOLUTE (the truth).

Yeah but it becomes strange loopy. How you perceive it to be is your ACTUAL experience in a limited consciousness RELATIVE perspective which makes it relatively true and able to explain how you feel when you´re in that exact situation and state of consciousness. This means that the feelings exist and are true with a small t on truth and that they are a part of our perceived experience of reality, just like my glass right in front of me is percived even though it doesn´t look like that from an absolute truth perspective.

 

 

 

 

 

[wwhy]

This is how I see the world, and please feel free to disagree.

The TRUTH is all about the PAST, what has happened.

The PRESENT is all about the NOW, make a CHOICE.

The FUTURE is all about VISION. Imagine or plan for it.

[wwhy]

2 minutes ago, SamC said:

Yeah but it becomes strange loopy. How you perceive it to be is your ACTUAL experience in a limited consciousness RELATIVE perspective which makes it relatively true and able to explain how you feel when you´re in that exact situation and state of consciousness. This means that the feelings exist and are true with a small t on truth and that they are a part of our perceived experience of reality, just like my glass right in front of me is percived even though it doesn´t look like that from an absolute truth perspective.

 

 

 

 

 

This world will never disappoint you. Whatever you choose (decide is true)... there it is.

[Karmadhi]

@wwhy  A homeless shy person can be the most caring and kind person you ever met. Does society care about that? NO! He will be seen as a loser by most of society and no girl will be attracted to him. 

[Heaven]

Keily Jenner is an example that women value isn’t static..

Women can absolutely increase their social value.