High value guy is mostly made, high value girl is mostly born

[intotheblack]

15 minutes ago, Consept said:

Just thought this was funny 

 

Hahaha curb ❤️

[Emerald]

52 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

 

@Emerald @soos_mite_ah What percentage of men do you consider high status/worthy of relationship?

It doesn't work that way for me. Attraction isn't objective or rational. I don't have a laundry list of qualifiers that need to be filled before I can become attracted to someone. 

I don't go looking purposefully for high status guys. It doesn't consciously cross my mind.

For a few years in my 20s I was really drawn to status... but that was because I was more focused toward status myself. I wanted to feel more adult back then and so I wanted a very specific vision of classy adulthood. I kind of feel like I wanted to live inside the song "Smooth Operator" back then... it just pushed some buttons for me. 

But I grew out of that, and I wouldn't much be interested in the men that sparked my interest back then. I eventually realized that I was just attracted to suits.  

But the way attraction has worked for me otherwise is that I just spend time with the people in my life, and random attractions spring up seemingly from nowhere.

If I'm spending time with "low status" guys, the attraction will likely fall on one of them. If I'm spending time with "high status" guys, the attraction will likely fall on one of them.

It tends to be whichever guy is the most a mirror to my Shadows and strengths.

I find that, currently I mostly spend time with like-minded people which is the best thing I can do to find a partner that fits me... if I were to end up single and go looking for one. 

Before I knew myself as well as I do now, I'd spend time with many people who I liked but didn't share my values. So, I would end up with partners and friends that weren't congruent to me.

But attraction still lands somewhere eventually. 

So, it's not a matter of worth and status for me. It's like chemistry and like-mindedness. 

Now, if a guy acts like a jerk or a scrub, he's going to automatically be unattractive to me. I have Shallow Hal vision... ugly personality traits ruin any potential for attraction for me. That was true, even when I was a little kid. Unkind people were always unattractive to me. 

 

[billiesimon]

4 hours ago, Emerald said:

I'm not saying these people don't exist here in either of those categories.

But the overall Shadow attraction point here is 'feeling not enough'. 

And my wager is that everyone here has that in varying degrees... and I don't exempt myself from that. 

So, the place you can go to get a look at that underbelly the very most is the "dating/relationship/sexuality" category. And that's because you have a lot of people with that "not enough" feeling, and this section tends to bring out the "not enough" feeling the very most. 

And PUAs have the same Shadow attraction point. So, there is a lot of that here.  

It's a collective community Shadow that both communities share.

Yeah, that's accurate. 

Of course self help communities attract losers/unsecure people. That's the point of self help. If you're complete you don't need it.

But at the same time a lot of people here thrive on the long run, including myself and you. I've joined Leo' s teachings years ago while I was full of shadows, and now I'm such a more positive guy who likes good vibes. It's all thanks to this content (the spiritual one). 

But the newcomers are always going to be hard cases. And that's good because they need to heal and find some helpful resources 

[Emerald]

4 hours ago, universe said:

@Emerald

Yes I understand, men and women both have their triggers and dissatisfactions when it comes to dating and relationships. It's easy to succumb and get paralyzed by the sheer brutality that is survival. That is why many people start to complain and fall into a victim mentality.

And I understand, there is a lot of unfuckery to do with how our society is structured right now.

Learn to dance.

Because, after all, you are the dance!

I don't really see the connection between what your wrote here and my post that you're responding to. 

My point was not that men and women both have triggers and dissatisfactions in relationships nor was it about the brutality of relationships.

My point was to express to @soos_mite_ah that many of the men here are hyper-fixating upon one of their masculine drives and leaving the others off the table. 

[Hardkill]

Most women these days don't know how to be a high value girlfriend or wife. They are not cooperative enough with men. 

 

 

 

[Preety_India]

3 minutes ago, Emerald said:

My point was to express to @soos_mite_ah that many of the men here are hyper-fixating upon one of their masculine drives and leaving the others off the table. 

It would be some much better if the males in the dating would regard dating also as a development spiral where they explore their masculine drives and gradually keep calibrating and upgrading them, instead of imagining dating as a one stop destination to their needs devoid of exploration and understanding of this labyrinth. 

That would be so much better. Because it will open up dimensions to their masculine drives. What do you think? 

 

[Emerald]

5 minutes ago, billiesimon said:

Yeah, that's accurate. 

Of course self help communities attract losers/unsecure people. That's the point of self help. If you're complete you don't need it.

But at the same time a lot of people here thrive on the long run, including myself and you. I've joined Leo' s teachings years ago while I was full of shadows, and now I'm such a more positive guy who likes good vibes. It's all thanks to this content (the spiritual one). 

But the newcomers are always going to be hard cases. And that's good because they need to heal and find some helpful resources 

I wouldn't be so sure of having completely escaped it. This runs very deep here. It's not just newcomers.

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

It would be some much better if the males in the dating would regard dating also as a development spiral where they explore their masculine drives and gradually keep calibrating and upgrading them, instead of imagining dating as a one stop destination to their needs devoid of exploration and understanding of this labyrinth. 

That would be so much better. Because it will open up dimensions to their masculine drives. What do you think? 

Yeah, I would agree with that, both in and outside the realm of dating. There's a lot of potential being left off the table and there is a failure to see the value in it. It's like a person who has a bunch of gold but doesn't know its worth. And it's making society worse. 

But there is a collective issue with men and avoidance... particularly avoidance of the feminine. It's a fear of penetration on any level but the physical. 

And since these masculine drives require connection to the feminine side to integrate them, many men have these potentials left off the table by default. So, all the focus is put towards the self-preservation drives in men as opposed to the species-preservation drive in men. 

There was an insight I had a year ago at a medicine work ceremony that the masculine is out of its natural alignment and that this, on an energetic level, is why it's somewhat uncommon to find a man with a fully integrated and healthy masculine side. This was part of the avoidance. It's either a lack of integration/rejection of the masculine side or an overextension into a very limited array of masculine traits that are learned from the outside. 

[Gili Trawangan]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

But there is a collective issue with men and avoidance... particularly avoidance of the feminine. It's a fear of penetration on any level but the physical. 

And since these masculine drives require connection to the feminine side to integrate them, many men have these potentials left off the table by default. So, all the focus is put towards the self-preservation drives in men as opposed to the species-preservation drive in men. 

@Emerald Even though I tend to agree with your assessment, I still fail to see the problem from a collective perspective. Last time I checked, the world was overpopulated and numbers still growing fast. Is it really a big deal if a percentage of men doesn't focus on what you call species-preservation drives? What is really the problem? That's an honest question, I don't see it clearly.

I'm open to having my mind changed, but haven't been able to see the "gold" hidden behind these masculine drives that have been talked about often on the forum. Particularly fatherhood, which I have a lot of resistance against personally. I would like to know what it is I'm missing here.

[Emerald]

55 minutes ago, Gili Trawangan said:

@Emerald Even though I tend to agree with your assessment, I still fail to see the problem from a collective perspective. Last time I checked, the world was overpopulated and numbers still growing fast. Is it really a big deal if a percentage of men doesn't focus on what you call species-preservation drives? What is really the problem? That's an honest question, I don't see it clearly.

I'm open to having my mind changed, but haven't been able to see the "gold" hidden behind these masculine drives that have been talked about often on the forum. Particularly fatherhood, which I have a lot of resistance against personally. I would like to know what it is I'm missing here.

When people skew too far into self-preservation drives over species-preservation drives, we end up with fractured, atomized communities and a lack of investment in others. Isolation is one of the biggest issues that we face as a populace as we are naturally a social species but we are functioning as though we're not. 

And a symptom of that is men who are disconnected from the instincts around community building... which is more than just fatherhood. It's not really about pro-creation and making lots of people. It's about being involved in a community. And fatherhood as a quality isn't exclusive to men who have children. Just like you could describe a woman as motherly even if she has no children.

Basically, we're in a society that's very disconnected. And this exacerbates all of our other issues... and causes many of them. 

So, it's not a man-only issue. But the avoidance that many men tend towards tends to feed into this dynamic quite a bit as well as being a symptom of it. 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Emerald

[universe]

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

I don't really see the connection between what your wrote here and my post that you're responding to. 

My point was not that men and women both have triggers and dissatisfactions in relationships nor was it about the brutality of relationships.

My point was to express to @soos_mite_ah that many of the men here are hyper-fixating upon one of their masculine drives and leaving the others off the table. 

I got that, I was adding to that some practical tips for dealing with the situation.

Not talking about this forum but society in general, everyday life.

We can asses the problems of society and the problematic childhood girls and boys endure. Collective shadows and what not. But in the end, from the perspective of someone looking to date and find their best possible match, who is triggered by his dates. It does them no good to wait until his/her dates start integrating their shadows. Instead, by doing their own shadow work, they can learn the dance, embrace themselves, integrate their masculine & feminine side, have fun dates with deep emotional connections and intimacy - right now.

You are the creator.

Every person is beautiful.

Thats my perspective and it comes with all the biases I have from my gender and the country I live in

[WaveInTheOcean]

5 hours ago, Hardkill said:

Most women these days don't know how to be a high value girlfriend or wife. They are not cooperative enough with men. 

 

 

 

Do most men know how to be a high value BF?:-)

[StarStruck]

On 14-4-2021 at 7:01 PM, Emerald said:

I just wrote this above. But I'm telling you that hot girls are usually not treated well. They are usually treated exploitatively and interchangeably. And both men and women tend to resent very attractive women.

Your best bet for being treated well as a woman (attractive or not attractive) is to have a lot of self-respect and boundaries... and to have a lot of things going for yourself. You have to be self-possessed if you want respect.

You 100% get treated better and with more respect with the latter in comparison to just the former. And I do mean in society at large.

I can tell you (and most women could tell you) from personal experience that basic respect and human dignity is WAY better than the princess treatment... because the princess treatment comes with some pretty gnarly strings attached. 

I usually get annoyed at pretty girls because of their attitude. If they want to be treated well they should not respond to assholes.. The nice guys become assholes because that is what pretty girls respond to.

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by StarStruck

[Jacob Morres]

5 hours ago, Preety_India said:

It would be some much better if the males in the dating would regard dating also as a development spiral where they explore their masculine drives and gradually keep calibrating and upgrading them, instead of imagining dating as a one stop destination to their needs devoid of exploration and understanding of this labyrinth. 

 

i agree with you 

but at the same time you can't tell someone else what is best for them

[Preety_India]

11 minutes ago, Jacob Morres said:

i agree with you 

but at the same time you can't tell someone else what is best for them

People can always suggest things! No? 

 

[Pharion]

Confident charming asshole= High value guy.

Weak kind caring person= Low value guy.

Hot bitchy dumb girl= High value girl.

Ugly smart caring girl= Low value girl.

 

I disagree with this dichotomy. It's true in particular contexts, but the opposite is true in other contexts. In shallow social situations like parties, highschool classes, night clubs, you're dichotomy is fairly true. If you are assessing long term relationship partners, and value intimacy and a good connection and relationship, everything is flipped. Sure, attractiveness and charisma still help, but those are secondary to personality features like being caring, trustworthy, having integrity as you said. Also, in real life those shallow things often don't matter much in regards to finding a good partner for a relationship. My girl finds me really charismatic and charming not because I objectively am, although I am (haha), but because she loves me and "gets" my humour and personality. I find her the most beautiful girl not because she's a literal model but because I love everything about her and that's just how my mind perceives her now. If you have chemistry and a deep connection with someone, usually your mind works out the shallow stuff anyway. 

Anyway, I don't say any of this to disregard your point. The message you're aiming at is definitely true, its just important to recognize that it's not universal, or equally important in different contexts or for someone with different goals...

[Jacob Morres]

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

People can always suggest things! No? 

 

mm idk sometimes. depends on who is asking.  you do you tho its not my place to tell u

[SamC]

 as a guy feel terrible misunderstood from this discussion regarding that men are this and woman are this way. It's a very black and white, biased way of looking at a complex situation.

"Men here are underdeveloped, they are this and that way and normal guys are not this way and woman here are for higher values while men are here just because they are less developed ext"

I mean come on, that's super judgemental and dividing and puts men on one side and woman on another side + put men and woman down. Many men and women are interested in higher ideals and conciousness and truth yet at the same time have low self esteem and what not. The one doesn't have to exclude the other one.

I agree with a lot on here. A lot of men here, myself too, have low self esteem issues and struggle in the daiting compartment and should work on integrating the anima, and shadow, and conciousness, and learn how to relate to woman better and the world and find his masculinety and yadi yadi yadi yadi, but that doesn't mean that we are here and you girls are up there or that we should be judged as " less developed'. A lot of girls here have similar structure problems in their psychie, while maybe not a guy's equivalent for that structure problem and I suggest that that's why the gender wars happen and why this is a sensitive topic for a lot of girls here too. 

A lot of men and woman on here are very very insecure. Not just men, not just woman and that makes it so that the two see something in the other sex which is not accepted which than creates this whole dynamic of judging and hatred. 

This is a very sensitive spot for myself, I can tell. I am biased, I am triggered, I am hurt and I take responsibility for that, but I also take responsibility to express my emotions and thoughts regarding this. I can't see this clearly, but this is how I see it, and therefor in a sense - this is my justified truth.

 

 

 

[wwhy]

13 hours ago, Consept said:

Just thought this was funny 

 

The irony for me in this is that I found the woman who plays Larry's wife in the show incredibly attractive too. But the very jealous/possesive girl I was with at the time somehow sensed it, and one day just declared that she no longer wanted to watch the show... and we should download something else. I should get back on it now..

[wwhy]

2 hours ago, SamC said:

 as a guy feel terrible misunderstood from this discussion regarding that men are this and woman are this way. It's a very black and white, biased way of looking at a complex situation.

"Men here are underdeveloped, they are this and that way and normal guys are not this way and woman here are for higher values while men are here just because they are less developed ext"

I mean come on, that's super judgemental and dividing and puts men on one side and woman on another side + put men and woman down. Many men and women are interested in higher ideals and conciousness and truth yet at the same time have low self esteem and what not. The one doesn't have to exclude the other one.

The way I'm seeing it, is that they've been a bit of bitter, anti-women posts here lately (maybe its always that way, but in the one week I've been back and actively reading... that's what am seeing). And the female people in here are just reacting to that vybe with their own negativity. Feeling triggered and misunderstood is just one of the many reactions you can choose to have.

Edited April 16, 2021 by wwhy