High value guy is mostly made, high value girl is mostly born

[Karmadhi]

So i would like your thoughts on this. I have noticed that society places the majority of the girls social value on her looks and a bit on how feminine her beaviour is. Looks for the most part are something you are born with. Yes taking care of yourself and stuff can help quite a bit but it can only get you so far. Meanwhile a guy's value is a lot more social, things like ambition, social skills, confidence, charisma, financial stability, wisdom etc. These things are given a lot of value in society. If you look at the most high value guys on the world they are usually guys on their 50s with high charisma and money and status. Unless you are born into a super rich family (trump jr for example hehe) then you gotta work for that. You are not born a confident charismatic funny wealthy guy, you become one through work.

Now good looking guys which are naturally born like that do have a lot of things easier, that is for sure. However a 9/10 looking guy does not have near the value that a 9/10 looking girl does, based on just looks alone. 

This has both advantages and disadvantages for both sexes.

The advantage for guys is that they have a lot more freedom than girls do to increase their worth, and if they stop being lazy and work on themselves they can become a high value guy a lot more reliably than a girl can.

The disadvantage for guys  is that they do not get freebies like hot girls do.

For girls it is a lot more deterministic, if you are born pretty your life will be on easy mode, you can be a total loser and still be valued by society and marry some wealthy guy and live well. If you are not pretty it will be harder but these days with surgery and stuff there is still hope.

Now when i say high value i am talking striclty on survival terms, because that is what society values. Stuff like inner beauty even though would be considered part of a high value person on this forum, society does not reward it much so i am not talking it into account. 

Confident charming asshole= High value guy.

Weak kind caring person= Low value guy.

Hot bitchy dumb girl= High value girl.

Ugly smart caring girl= Low value girl.

This is how survival and hence society views people. This is the logic i used on this post. It seems super disgusting and cruel and well survival is just that, disgusting and cruel.

 

[wwhy]

It depends on the beholder. If all you value a girl for is her looks...

Then yes. It is true. Personally, if its about picking someone who is going to be around me all the time, I'd pick a plane jane with character over an empty 10/10 girl everytime.

[Karmadhi]

This is not about me or you. This is about how SOCIETY as a whole, what it values. Of course people in a super advanced self development forum would not just care about girls looks. But this is about society not members of this forum.

[Leo Gura]

It's true that it is easier for a man to increase his attractiveness simply because women are less attracted to looks than men are.

It's easier to change your personality, status, wealth, and game than your looks. But even so, it's still not easy and most guys are too lazy to do it.

[Preety_India]

Depends on your value systems. 

If I decide to only choose a man based on looks, that's on me. 

But if I choose a man based on his qualities, then I'm amping up value in my relationships. 

 

[wwhy]

9 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

This is not about me or you. This is about how SOCIETY as a whole, what it values. Of course people in a super advanced self development forum would not just care about girls looks. But this is about society not members of this forum.

Ahahahahaha

So you do not think am part of society...

[Joel3102]

Don’t discount the non looks values with females too. Whilst it might not increase sexual attractiveness, most guys don’t want some boring hot chick. Good personality traits can help a lot 

[wwhy]

41 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Now when i say high value i am talking striclty on survival terms, because that is what society values. Stuff like inner beauty even though would be considered part of a high value person on this forum, society does not reward it much so i am not talking it into account. 

What do you mean "survival terrms?". If you have the luxury and priviledge of posting here, you are not fighting for survival, and from the looks of it I doubt you've any idea what that really means. Ego survival... yes. Actual survival, no.

41 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Confident charming asshole= High value guy.

Depends on the girl, her wealth, and sense of self esteem. You won't get a Kardashian just becuase you are a confident and charming homeless man.

41 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Weak kind caring person= Low value guy.

Don't be weak. Be kind and caring.

41 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Hot bitchy dumb girl= High value girl.

If that's what you want bro... ama pass.

41 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Ugly smart caring girl= Low value girl.

 Don't be ugly. Be smart and caring.

 

That just me and my opion as an individual. Last time I checked, there was no individual called "society", so maybe stop projecting your preferences out to everyone else?

Edited April 14, 2021 by wwhy

[Karmadhi]

@wwhy Dude why do hot girls get so many offers, great treatment etc by society. Because they are valuable. I am not saying whether you would date one, i am saying a hot girl will be treated like a princess by society a lot more than non hot girls will. 

I am talking about ego survival here.

[Karmadhi]

@Joel3102 They matter for sure but i do not think not hot girls with great personality get free trips in Dubai and 1000 simps willing to donate to them the same way than a hot girl with meh personality will.

A rich successful alpha guy has the same value in society as super hot girl does. That is why they often end up together.

 

[wwhy]

17 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

@wwhy Dude why do hot girls get so many offers, great treatment etc by society. Because they are valuable. I am not saying whether you would date one, i am saying a hot girl will be treated like a princess by society a lot more than non hot girls will. 

I am talking about ego survival here.

I'm not saying hotness has no value. Hotness is absolutely fantastic!

But if that is all you are bringing to the table, I won't waste too much time with you.

[intotheblack]

This again? We already know that ‘society’  is shallow. Yes hot girls will get better chances at Modeling etc. But in the REAL world people are connecting with all kinds of people based on values and genuine attraction. At the end of the day you connect with who you connect with.  I know plenty of guys who don’t give a F about dating models. 
get out and socialise and stop overthinking everything. Everything you see online is an illusion. 
this kind of attitude is why there is so many insecure people who feel inadequate and lesser value because of looks!

Edited April 14, 2021 by intotheblack

[aurum]

@Karmadhi

I'd say you're generally correct. Your value as a guy tends to be way more dynamic than static like it is for women.

At the same time, there is quite a bit women can do. Even if we just take the most superficial level, a lot of women could vastly improve how guys perceived them if they exercised regularly and ate right. I understand that's shallow and objectifying, but it would work. And considering I hold myself to that same standard, I don't find it unreasonable. These are things everyone should be doing, even just for their own health.

Then add in some self-actualization / life purpose / spiritual work and she would be total wifey material, especially for a guy who is less superficial and more developed. And all of this is within your control to do. So there is still quite a bit of leverage, even for women.

[Karmadhi]

@aurum There definitely is, especially for wife material stuff. However i was referring more to getting princess like treatment rather than marriage stuff.

When i say they have high value in society because of looks, this is what i am referring to. Of course this is a bit over the top for humor but not too far away from real life. Only works for really hot girls though (8.5/10 plus).

For guys, only rich guy celebrities would get this kind of treatment. A male model will not (at least not that much).

Edited April 14, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Etherial Cat]

2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

So i would like your thoughts on this. I have noticed that society places the majority of the girls social value on her looks and a bit on how feminine her beaviour is. Looks for the most part are something you are born with. Yes taking care of yourself and stuff can help quite a bit but it can only get you so far. Meanwhile a guy's value is a lot more social, things like ambition, social skills, confidence, charisma, financial stability, wisdom etc. These things are given a lot of value in society. If you look at the most high value guys on the world they are usually guys on their 50s with high charisma and money and status. Unless you are born into a super rich family (trump jr for example hehe) then you gotta work for that. You are not born a confident charismatic funny wealthy guy, you become one through work.

Now good looking guys which are naturally born like that do have a lot of things easier, that is for sure. However a 9/10 looking guy does not have near the value that a 9/10 looking girl does, based on just looks alone. 

This has both advantages and disadvantages for both sexes.

The advantage for guys is that they have a lot more freedom than girls do to increase their worth, and if they stop being lazy and work on themselves they can become a high value guy a lot more reliably than a girl can.

The disadvantage for guys  is that they do not get freebies like hot girls do.

For girls it is a lot more deterministic, if you are born pretty your life will be on easy mode, you can be a total loser and still be valued by society and marry some wealthy guy and live well. If you are not pretty it will be harder but these days with surgery and stuff there is still hope.

Now when i say high value i am talking striclty on survival terms, because that is what society values. Stuff like inner beauty even though would be considered part of a high value person on this forum, society does not reward it much so i am not talking it into account. 

Confident charming asshole= High value guy.

Weak kind caring person= Low value guy.

Hot bitchy dumb girl= High value girl.

Ugly smart caring girl= Low value girl.

This is how survival and hence society views people. This is the logic i used on this post. It seems super disgusting and cruel and well survival is just that, disgusting and cruel.

 

The notion of value is interesting to contemplate.

Surely, stage orange people especially tend to equate value with survival capital. But value isn't solely material things.

Here in your reasoning you're tying someone's worth to the ability to generate material value. 

Ex:

"A confident chaming asshole=  High value guy "

"Hot bitchy dumb girl= High value girl"

Value in human is generated in several forms to me.  The ability to do or having stuff is surely one, but being is also extremely important.

In a nutshell

-> without the ability to do there is no being (you can't survive by doing nothing- you need to feed yourself, have a home...)

-> with only the ability to generate material value through doing or being a useless hot stuff, there is no being. Or at least no life worth living.

In my life, I would have had plenty of opportunity to settle down with loaded guys or chase one in exchange for my vagina. This exchange would simply have generated a life not worth living. Exchanging youth and sexual value for freebies and other material stuff isn't interesting. It is a devilish and miserable way to survive.

On the other side, if a man see women only through their physical sexual value, this is also a devilish and souless way to survive. It is objectifying and also the best way not to ever have a meaningful relationship with one. 

Like the buddha said it , the best path is the middle way. The middle way is a compromise between getting your survival needs and beyond met + the spiritual (being) dimension.

So, to some up my point, you need a partner that is both satisfying to you on a survival level and on a beingness level.

This is why seeing relationships only through the survival lens is a terrible mistake to me. But it is also delusional to not to take in consideration the basic needs for it to function (survival capital).

[wwhy]

38 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

@aurum There definitely is, especially for wife material stuff. However i was referring more to getting princess like treatment rather than marriage stuff.

When i say they have high value in society because of looks, this is what i am referring to. Of course this is a bit over the top for humor but not too far away from real life. Only works for really hot girls though (8.5/10 plus).

For guys, only rich guy celebrities would get this kind of treatment. A male model will not (at least not that much).

I beg to differ, my friend. If those are the thoughts going through someones mind as they walk through the world, they most certaintly wont get the kind of attention and admiration as depicted in this video. High status male OR female celebrities are the exception.

Hot girls are like grains of sand in the beach. If you live anywhere even moderately populated, you'll see dozens of hot girls just going shopping for groceries. If you dont, then am sorry for your loss. Move out of that village

[Karmadhi]

Saying hot girls do not get better treatment and more opportunities than non hot girls is pure delusion. It even happens for guys but for girls that difference is 10x bigger. Otherwise, girls would not spend so much money, time and mental energy caring for about their looks. Why are plastic surgeries done almost exclusively by females. Go and call a girl fat and ugly and see how much that hurts her. Why? Because she knows how much that affects the quality of her life.

Yes i am talking about value in terms of pure selfish survival value but majority of the population is at that level right now. We are talking generalities here. Me and you probably are a bit above that due to Leo's work.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Emerald]

47 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

@aurum There definitely is, especially for wife material stuff. However i was referring more to getting princess like treatment rather than marriage stuff.

When i say they have high value in society because of looks, this is what i am referring to. Of course this is a bit over the top for humor but not too far away from real life. Only works for really hot girls though (8.5/10 plus).

For guys, only rich guy celebrities would get this kind of treatment. A male model will not (at least not that much).

Go talk to a woman who is 8/10+ about how she's treated. Women in this category tend to be harassed a lot.

It tends to be a little bit like the goose that laid the golden egg.

Tons of men will flock to you for their own selfish purposes. That's really what the "princess" treatment usually is. And that's why a great many women are resistant to being treated that way. 

And you don't even need to be that level attractive to be treated that way. Trust me when I say it doesn't really feel good when the "freebies" are all about trying to buy you. And you know that this "nice" treatment is only based upon something superficial and temporary about yourself. 

So, it isn't really something to be desired. Though I understand that men don't have experience with being approached by masses and masses of women, and the male instinct does have an urge towards many women. So, from the male perspective, it may feel like, "No fair. Why do women get all the luck?"

But it's honestly like trying to find a genuine personal message in an inbox that's 99% spam dressed up (with varying degrees of efficacy) to look like personal messages.

[Karmadhi]

@Emerald I never said that guys would want that. I said guy is valued on society a lot more because of what he does and because of how he acts, not because of how he looks. The fact that those girls get so much freebies and people talking to them as you say is a pure sign of high value. High value guys get the same treatment. A rich famous person will get just as many girls wanting to fuck him as a 9/10 hot girl will. There is a reason the expression: "Get laid like a rock star" exists. Rock star guy= Hot girl, in terms of society value. Yes selfish value but we do not live in enlightenment land, we live in selfish survival land.

[Emerald]

Just now, Karmadhi said:

Saying hot girls do not get better treatment and more opportunities than non hot girls is pure delusion. It even happens for guys but that girls that difference is 10x bigger. Otherwise, girls would not spend so much money, time and mental energy caring about their looks. Why are plastic surgeries done almost exclusively by females. Go and call a girl fat and ugly and see how much that hurts her. Why? Because she knows how much that affects the quality of her life.

Yes i am talking about value in terms of pure selfish survival value but majority of the population is at that level right now. We are talking generalities here. Me and you probably are a bit above that due to Leo's work.

I just wrote this above. But I'm telling you that hot girls are usually not treated well. They are usually treated exploitatively and interchangeably. And both men and women tend to resent very attractive women.

Your best bet for being treated well as a woman (attractive or not attractive) is to have a lot of self-respect and boundaries... and to have a lot of things going for yourself. You have to be self-possessed if you want respect.

You 100% get treated better and with more respect with the latter in comparison to just the former. And I do mean in society at large.

I can tell you (and most women could tell you) from personal experience that basic respect and human dignity is WAY better than the princess treatment... because the princess treatment comes with some pretty gnarly strings attached.