Spiritual teachers with no psychedelic experience

[Carl-Richard]

7 hours ago, vladorion said:

It's not genetics per se, it's karma. Spiritually gifted people just have good karma, so it's relatively easy for them. The way it plays into genetics is, if you have good karma, you'll get a body that has good genetics.

Genetics is one facet of karma. It's just different ways of describing it.

[Enlightenment]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, keep telling yourself that donkeys are awake.

If donkeys are awake then so is your asshole.

Again this comes back to the definition of what we mean by awake. Commonly if someone lost their standard feeling like a 'self' being in the head - they are considered awake, and what is changed in their brain is not different levels of neurotransmitters but merging together default mode network and task-positive network. Donkeys and other animals do not have a default mode network at all (only humans do) so yes donkeys are awake by the most common definition of awakening. Now, by your definition which requires a constant stream of 5-MeO to the brain - I've never heard of such a person and doubt even one exists

[Enlightenment]

4 hours ago, 4201 said:

There is nothing that can rob you of your happiness

Examples of things that can easily rob you of your happiness:

Schizophrenia, cluster headaches, arthritis, major depression, CPRS

[Leo Gura]

Drink a cup of mercury and see how awake you'll be.

If you got mercury, lead, or arsinic in your brain you ain't ever waking up. You won't be able to meditate for 3 minutes.

[Joel3102]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Drink a cup of mercury and see how awake you'll be.

If you got mercury, lead, or arsinic in your brain you ain't ever waking up. You won't be able to meditate for 3 minutes.

This might explain why I feel so ADD when I meditate. Tuna was my go to growing up. Do you recommend tests? 

[SamC]

@Cireeric

17 hours ago, Cireeric said:

So penis pills are like psychedelics for the cock ?  Conscious penis pill business is coming 

LP statement: Developing life changing pills for people to realize the power of God. Making dicks longer.

 

[Theperciever]

@Leo Gura

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Drink a cup of mercury and see how awake you'll be.

If you got mercury, lead, or arsinic in your brain you ain't ever waking up. You won't be able to meditate for 3 minutes.

could you speak on how to detox these metals out of your system?

[Lyubov]

Not entirely sure I attribute it as heavily to one’s biology as much as Leo does. I think Maslow hierarchy and where one falls in it is a better indicator of how much one can accomplish spiritually. There does seem to be some who are exceptionally talented though. Seems like it’s quite complex and a mixture of many things. 

[allislove]

22 hours ago, Godishere said:

Is it just me, but after having awakening experiences into no Self, the Self, nothingness and non-duality, I just can't take some of these spiritual teachers seriously. In particular, the ones that have no experiences with psychedelics. I am very sceptical at even the validity of their claimed states of consciousness. After experiencing these non-dual states of consciousness on LSD and mushrooms, I just cannot believe these states and insights are achievable without psychedelics. I'm not claiming to be be better or more self aware than these anti psychedlic teachers but how have they achieved these mystical states? I just don't buy it, there's no way in a million years I could have had these awakenings without them, which obviously doesn't mean they can't but still.

Has anyone actually achieved awakenings without psychedelics? Who also has many trips under their belt to reference them against.. 

That's exactly the trap of psychedelics, the state is taken as you, you are where all these states happen. Psychedelics are amazing tool though. As someone said "trap" is "part" backwards. What are parts? The parts are you and psychedelic that activates something. There is no separation. You are the "activator activating activation".

[lmfao]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Awakening is really a technology problem. Gurus don't ever mention this factor.

Only SAD(h) Gurus do that

--

To @4201 or anyone else concerned about Leo saying spirituality is mostly genetic, I'd say ignore it. You don't have to believe it. I read what Leo says, maybe I feel a little blue, but it's a fleeting thought and is no different to generalised regret of "oh why wasn't I born like this". And the millions of other regrets we can have. 

We're all on our own intense life paths anyway, so what other people say shouldn't matter. You are you, and that's that. 

If there is something to takeaway though, it's that health and chemistry is important. I mean if your health is bad/unoptimised then surely it's only good news when you hear someone say your results in anything (e. G. Spirituality) can only get better if you improve it. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by lmfao

[Space]

8 hours ago, Forestluv said:

I saw a video of a woman who had been seriously doing spirituality for like 40 years. Meditation retreats, nonduality, various forms of yoga etc. I think she was at a Rupert Spira talk and was pleading with him - "what is it going to take? I've heard all this. I've done all this many many times for decades - yet I'm still here unawakened". She seemed so tired of it all. I felt for her. 

I think I saw the same video but I bet she hasn't done 30mg of 5-MeO-DMT!

I personally feel that my breakthroughs on 5-MeO, and specifically the energetic body 'effects' it has, have permanently changed my genetics or brain/body physiology in such a way that I am much more open to insights and intuitive senses, as well as much deeper meditative states.

Its a shame that not everyone seems capable of these kind of experiences.

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, lmfao said:

To @4201 or anyone else concerned about Leo saying spirituality is mostly genetic, I'd say ignore it.

or look at the examples where the hard work paid off in the end:

Quote

A Ph.D. in Happiness: What 10,000 Hours of Meditation Actually Does to Your Brain

Gary Weber is an interesting guy.

Over 15 years ago he was the CEO of a multi-million dollar company, with a thousand or so employees under his leadership.

Everything was going normally, except on one morning when something very strange happened to Gary.

He lost his mind.

Gary was doing his morning Yoga ritual and went up into a pose that he had done thousands of times. He was practicing a simple self-inquiry meditation, and when he came down, his mind was gone.

When I say lost his mind, I don’t mean he lost control (he would say he never had it). What I mean is he lost all self-referential thoughts; the never-ending stream of noise that goes through ours heads every single day.

But let me give this some context because this wasn’t spontaneous. In fact, Gary says that it was probably about 20,000 hours and 25 years in the making.

http://growbalance.se/2016/11/20/ph-d-happiness-10000-hours-meditation-actually-brain/

You'll never know if you got bad genetics if you don't put in the work 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[lmfao]

@Carl-Richard that too lmao

[Breakingthewall]

34 minutes ago, Space said:

Its a shame that not everyone seems capable of these kind of experiences.

A person who claims to have been meditating for 40 years, completely committed to spirituality and frustrated at being stagnant, if she knows that there is such a thing as 5meo, with practically no serious risk, that he is capable of releasing it, and he does not ... has a psychology that I don't understand

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Joel3102 said:

This might explain why I feel so ADD when I meditate. Tuna was my go to growing up. Do you recommend tests? 

Definitely do a DMSA-provoked urine test.

3 hours ago, Theperciever said:

@Leo Gura

could you speak on how to detox these metals out of your system?

I will in the future.

[Nahm]

On 4/14/2021 at 7:28 AM, Godishere said:

Is it just me, but after having awakening experiences into no Self, the Self, nothingness and non-duality, I just can't take some of these spiritual teachers seriously. In particular, the ones that have no experiences with psychedelics. I am very sceptical at even the validity of their claimed states of consciousness. After experiencing these non-dual states of consciousness on LSD and mushrooms, I just cannot believe these states and insights are achievable without psychedelics. I'm not claiming to be be better or more self aware than these anti psychedlic teachers but how have they achieved these mystical states? I just don't buy it, there's no way in a million years I could have had these awakenings without them, which obviously doesn't mean they can't but still.

Has anyone actually achieved awakenings without psychedelics? Who also has many trips under their belt to reference them against.. 

It’s just thought attachment. Meditation is usually recommended. Doesn’t have anything to do with experiences, sans the experience of thought attachment. 

[Bodhitree]

I think it’s an interesting approach to say enlightenment is 95% genetics. Most of the teachers you see are very exceptional individuals, and even they, when they talk about their experiences, often talk about just a few special occurrences. Not many seem to be able to enter these states at will, as the Buddha was said to be able to do. 
Most people who are interested in enlightenment states can eventually achieve some kind of glimpse, I think, unassisted, with enough perseverance. Psychedelics can be a shortcut but if you haven’t done the serious introspection, the work on yourself to get ready for these experiences, then you won’t be able to process them. Even the Indian veda’s, scriptures many thousands of years old, said that one of the paths to enlightenment was through ‘light-filled herbs’.

[Globalcollective]

On 14/04/2021 at 0:28 PM, Godishere said:

Is it just me, but after having awakening experiences into no Self, the Self, nothingness and non-duality, I just can't take some of these spiritual teachers seriously. In particular, the ones that have no experiences with psychedelics. I am very sceptical at even the validity of their claimed states of consciousness. After experiencing these non-dual states of consciousness on LSD and mushrooms, I just cannot believe these states and insights are achievable without psychedelics. I'm not claiming to be be better or more self aware than these anti psychedlic teachers but how have they achieved these mystical states? I just don't buy it, there's no way in a million years I could have had these awakenings without them, which obviously doesn't mean they can't but still.

Has anyone actually achieved awakenings without psychedelics? Who also has many trips under their belt to reference them against.. 

@Godishere So I can relay my experience, I have done a fair few psychedelic trips and have 10 years of constant meditation and intense yoga practice under my belt. I did alot of trips before I got really deep into normal practices so I knew what to look for in comparing the two. There has been a few times that I have had DMT like trips through meditation and yoga so I think it is possible. Also I went through a period where I felt as though I was constantly on mushrooms but I was completely sober. I wonder what I will experience with say 40 years of intense meditation practice. 

However to get to the point where your having a fully on dmt breakthrough like experience through just meditation or yoga is very rare I would say and reserved only for the dedicated partitioner or the very gifted 

[4201]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Drink a cup of mercury and see how awake you'll be.

If you got mercury, lead, or arsinic in your brain you ain't ever waking up. You won't be able to meditate for 3 minutes.

That too is an idea. Why would brain damage prevent you from ceasing to use your brain? You can find studies that link those heavy metals to irratibility and then start believing you can't be at peace right now because of heavy metal but obviously, this is just more thoughts and worrying which prevent you from being at peace right now.

You probably can't rid of 100% of the heavy metals in your brain. There's might always be some remaining. But you can stop worrying about heavy metals in the brain and be free from that. I never checked for heavy metals and I will never give a shit. Too bad if this reduces my cognitive potential but I got other things to do than worry about those. At the end of the day I don't need that cognitive potential to be at peace.

 

7 hours ago, Enlightenment said:

Examples of things that can easily rob you of your happiness:

Schizophrenia, cluster headaches, arthritis, major depression, CPRS

The only thing that's holding you back from enlightenment is thinking you can't have it. Everyone has their different belief about why they can't have it and be at peace right now. You seem to agree about Leo's blind spot but then bring your own blind spots to the table, claiming that those reasons one can't attain enlightenment are the real reasons. None of those reasons are insurmountable either.

Edited April 15, 2021 by 4201

[vladorion]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

A person who claims to have been meditating for 40 years, completely committed to spirituality and frustrated at being stagnant, if she knows that there is such a thing as 5meo, with practically no serious risk, that he is capable of releasing it, and he does not ... has a psychology that I don't understand

Maybe that person wants to have a permanent shift and not a temporary experience.