Spiritual teachers with no psychedelic experience

[Godishere]

Is it just me, but after having awakening experiences into no Self, the Self, nothingness and non-duality, I just can't take some of these spiritual teachers seriously. In particular, the ones that have no experiences with psychedelics. I am very sceptical at even the validity of their claimed states of consciousness. After experiencing these non-dual states of consciousness on LSD and mushrooms, I just cannot believe these states and insights are achievable without psychedelics. I'm not claiming to be be better or more self aware than these anti psychedlic teachers but how have they achieved these mystical states? I just don't buy it, there's no way in a million years I could have had these awakenings without them, which obviously doesn't mean they can't but still.

Has anyone actually achieved awakenings without psychedelics? Who also has many trips under their belt to reference them against.. 

[fridjonk]

Careful here. A lot of them hold back info because they know they're teaching sleepwalking zombies. It's most definitely possible to have VERY deep awakenings without psychedelics, and being spiritually gifted is a very real thing. 

[Godishere]

@fridjonk true, maybe my ego is very dense and entangled from my upbringing and social conditioning compared to others. Especially growing up in the West we are brainwashed from birth. I am open-minded to the idea that others are less conditioned but then again there is nothing here but me. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

Consider how DMT (and other pyshcedelics for that matter) "work" when you ingest them into your body... What happens?

Well

- the molecules attach to receptors THAT YOUR BRAIN HAS CREATED

- those receptors getting activated then in turn activates certan neural pathways / network THAT YOUR BRAIN HAS CREATED

- the activation of those networks/neural pathways ( firing of specific brain cells ) then results in "the psychedelic experience"

So while psychedelics are immensly powerful tools -- hacks -- of course it should be obvious that it's possible to have profound experiences without pyschedelics, giving the right brain, right genetics, right chemistry, right upbringning, right practice (meditation and so on). Heck, science is about to unravel that the human brain is producing DMT. We just don't know in what amounts and for what function / the mechanics of it.
 

[Mason Riggle]

@Godishere I've tripped 100's of times.. 

The most enlightening awakening I ever had was completely sober, near the end of a simple 9 minute meditation I tried while sitting at my desk at work. 

[Godishere]

@WaveInTheOcean But In these states of mysticism, you become aware that your brain is imaginary, therefore the psychedelic is imaginary. If you have experienced these levels of conciousness you know exactly what I'm talking about.

So I'm saying that, I guess you mean that God in it's infinite intelligence can imagine itself as a human with more understanding of itself as God.

[Godishere]

@Mason Riggle interesting that's crazy... What was your facet of awakening? Was this just mindful meditation or contemplation/self inquiry?

[Mason Riggle]

@Godishere Just a simple mindfulness mediation.
 

I realized everything is me, and it's all happening, and nobody is doing it. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Nahm]

@Godishere

So to speak of course, I awoke and then became interested in psychedelic experiences. 

[Mason Riggle]

Since then, many other realizations have occurred from contemplation (and some help from Leo ). 

- no self/no free will

- relativity/infinity

- duality/non-duality

- strange loopiness

- imaginary reality

- Truth/Love/God

[Seraphim]

53 minutes ago, Godishere said:

Has anyone actually achieved awakenings without psychedelics? Who also has many trips under their belt to reference them against.. 

I haven't done psychedelics, after a spiritual transmission from a teacher my perception of reality changed permanently, so now I see and feel that everything is the self, everything is shining with this I-feeling. It feels a bit trippy sometimes but in a really good way, now that the whole world is the self I feel very safe and happy to be here!  

[Boethius]

I've only ever done a bit of marijuana here and there but I've had some pretty intense experiences both with marijuana and sober.

I'm thinking about a time, for example, when I was on campus on my way to hold office hours for my students as they were about to take a Calculus exam the next day. I was thinking about the problems I was having in my relationship with my partner and how I felt he was dismissing my emotions. Accepting that I have emotions that are not dependent on whether he does or doesn't find them to be "reasonable" was a huge thing for me, and in accepting that everything radically shifted/opened up. My perception of colors became super intense, everything felt connected, and as each student came and sat down at my desk across from me I felt about them "Wow, you are a giant!" It was the first time in my career I felt honored to be in the presence of my students (almost intimidated, even). Then eventually the experience faded, though I did learn a lot from it.

I figure this is both a blessing and a curse: I am more open to these sorts of experiences, but also more prone to experiencing them at inconvenient times and without always knowing how to "get out" of them.

[Carl-Richard]

My sober awakenings were and still are deeper than my LSD experiences.

[Leo Gura]

@Godishere Most serious spiritual teachers are exceptionally gifted. They do not have a normie brian or neurochemistry. Which is why they rose to the level of a teacher. They are worldclass people.

There is a good reason why less than 0.0001% of the planet is awake. Most folk simply lack the hardware to do it. Psychedelics help bridge that gap.

Some people are basically born mystics and enlightened. Some do zero work to get it. It's like being born with a huge cock. Yeah, a guy born with a footlong cock doesn't need any pills. But is that you?

[WaveInTheOcean]

1 hour ago, Godishere said:

@WaveInTheOcean But In these states of mysticism, you become aware that your brain is imaginary, therefore the psychedelic is imaginary. If you have experienced these levels of conciousness you know exactly what I'm talking about.

So I'm saying that, I guess you mean that God in it's infinite intelligence can imagine itself as a human with more understanding of itself as God.

Of course, everything is imaginary, including you and me as persons/human beings, our brains, the psychedelic molecules. Yes, yes. But that doesn't change the fact that there are some mechanics in play inside this dream that determines whether the dreamed-up character will awaken or not. Yes, even those mechanics (physical laws, brain chemistry, genetics, molecules) are imaginary, but thet are still very very valid within the context of the dream (life).

[Cireeric]

57 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Some people are basically born mystics and enlightened. Some do zero work to get it. It's like being born with a huge cock. Yeah, a guy born with a footlong cock doesn't need any pills. But is that you?

So penis pills are like psychedelics for the cock ?  Conscious penis pill business is coming 

[Inliytened1]

23 minutes ago, Cireeric said:

 Conscious penis pill business is coming 

Don't hold your breath for a two part series in the catalog 

[vladorion]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Godishere Most serious spiritual teachers are exceptionally gifted. They do not have a normie brian or neurochemistry. Which is why they rose to the level of a teacher. They are worldclass people.

There is a good reason why less than 0.0001% of the planet is awake. Most folk simply lack the hardware to do it. Psychedelics help bridge that gap.

Some people are basically born mystics and enlightened. Some do zero work to get it. It's like being born with a huge cock. Yeah, a guy born with a footlong cock doesn't need any pills. But is that you?

Leo, what kind of pills are you talking about? 

[BlackMaze]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Godishere Most serious spiritual teachers are exceptionally gifted. They do not have a normie brian or neurochemistry. Which is why they rose to the level of a teacher. They are worldclass people.

There is a good reason why less than 0.0001% of the planet is awake. Most folk simply lack the hardware to do it. Psychedelics help bridge that gap.

Some people are basically born mystics and enlightened. Some do zero work to get it. It's like being born with a huge cock. Yeah, a guy born with a footlong cock doesn't need any pills. But is that you?

Are you sure this is not a belief? If yes could you share a book or some resources to learn more about this? Does it really depend on a brain if someone wakes up without psychedelics or not? Is there something to back up this theory? 

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, BlackMaze said:

Does it really depend on a brain if someone wakes up without psychedelics or not? Is there something to back up this theory? 

Ultimately everything within the dream is imaginary.  When God (you over there) shifts out of the dream all of this collapses.  It was just a dream.  So we are speaking within the context of the dream right now.