Forget About Relationships If You Are On A Self-Development Journey

[flowboy]

9 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

Are you implying a lack of objectivity? Are you implying that 'the other person's judgement is clouded because of their hurt'? Cuz that is a personal attack.

Are you implying that what they're saying is false? Is it true or false? What is it?

Settle down cowboy. No one is attacking anyone.

For sure I am implying lack of objectivity. Unless you are God, you are not objective, your judgment is clouded, and your perspective is partial. That's what being a human is. Questioning and unwiring firmly held beliefs, and integrating the shadow (which can be through integrating other partial perspectives), is what expands our perspective and brings it closer to a more wholistic view, ultimately heading towards enlightenment. That's personal growth.

Yes, and to answer your other question, our hurt clouds our judgments and views and entire perception of reality. This is true for me, for you, and for anyone else who is having a human experience right now.

Edited April 15, 2021 by flowboy

[Parththakkar12]

1 minute ago, flowboy said:

Settle down cowboy. No one is attacking anyone.

For sure I am implying lack of objectivity. Unless you are God, you are not objective, your judgment is clouded, and your perspective is partial. That's what being a human is. Questioning and unwiring firmly held beliefs, and integrating the shadow (which can be through integrating other partial perspectives), is what expands our perspective and brings it closer to a more wholistic view, ultimately heading towards enlightenment. That's personal growth.

Then what is 'the objective truth'? I've seen this countless times where you say something about relationships, people ask you 'who hurt you', they tell you to 'integrate your shadows'. It's almost as if they're wanting you to reach a conclusion they want you to reach but they aren't directly telling it to you, rather they're trying to control your mind and your growth-process and saying that 'If you arrive at my conclusion, you're doing it right, if not, you're doing it wrong'. This applies especially to therapists.

[flowboy]

18 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

Then what is 'the objective truth'? I've seen this countless times where you say something about relationships, people ask you 'who hurt you', they tell you to 'integrate your shadows'. It's almost as if they're wanting you to reach a conclusion they want you to reach but they aren't directly telling it to you, rather they're trying to control your mind and your growth-process and saying that 'If you arrive at my conclusion, you're doing it right, if not, you're doing it wrong'. This applies especially to therapists.

I empathize with this frustrating experience. I've been there before. When I was young, people used to tell me sometimes "you have a lot to learn" and then refuse to explain it. Infuriating, to say the least. Not the exact same, but something I can relate to.

But what else can someone do, who has a particular understanding that they can see you have not yet, but use these indirect ways to nudge you to explore for yourself?

This is why therapists are so annoying. If they told you directly what you need to understand to grow further, two problems would happen:

1. You would not accept it, and argue over the content. Because from your current perspective, their words are nonsense, and your ego can easily come up with arguments why. But that is just a strategy that the ego uses to maintain its current level. All egos are afraid of change and very good at fighting it with arguments, if they are enabled to. That's why debates don't grow anyone, and why indirect approaches are necessary.
2. You would get the therapists' biases and misperceptions mixed in there. It simply would not be as clean as if you were to discover it for yourself, and also, you wouldn't take it seriously unless you discovered it for yourself.

In addition, it's not respectful and also false to tell someone exactly what they need to understand, because you are asserting absolute authority over their reality, putting yourself on a pedestal that can never be deserved.

So all you can really do is point at something and hint that there is more to discover and work to be done.

Sometimes, when people are very comfortable, it can be helpful to shake them up a bit. But they only accept real growth from themselves.

In your case, you seem to experience it as an attack that many different people and situations point you to something that is unclear to you. I would propose to instead start looking at it as an invitation. An invitation to discover for yourself, and do this shadow work that causes so much resistance in you. The more something bothers you, the stronger a signal it is, that you can get a lot of personal growth leverage there.

 

That which you most need, will be found where you least want to look

- Carl Jung

 

But you don't have to. The choice is yours.

Edited April 15, 2021 by flowboy

[Parththakkar12]

8 minutes ago, flowboy said:

I empathize with this frustrating experience. I've been there before. When I was young, people used to tell me sometimes "you have a lot to learn" and then refuse to explain it. Infuriating, to say the least. Not the exact same, but something I can relate to.

But what else can someone do, who has a particular understanding that they can see you have not yet, but use these indirect ways to nudge you to explore for yourself?

This is why therapists are so annoying. If they told you directly what you need to understand to grow further, two problems would happen:

1. You would not accept it, and argue over the content. Because from your current perspective, their words are nonsense, and your ego can easily come up with arguments why. But that is just a strategy that the ego uses to maintain its current level. All egos are afraid of change and very good at fighting it with arguments, if they are enabled to. That's why debates don't grow anyone, and why indirect approaches are necessary.
2. You would get the therapists' biases and misperceptions mixed in there. It simply would not be as clean as if you were to discover it for yourself, and also, you wouldn't take it seriously unless you discovered it for yourself.

In addition, it's not respectful and also false to tell someone exactly what they need to understand, because you are asserting absolute authority over their reality, putting yourself on a pedestal that can never be deserved.

So all you can really do is point at something and hint that there is more to discover and work to be done.

Sometimes, when people are very comfortable, it can be helpful to shake them up a bit. But they only accept real growth from themselves.

In your case, you seem to experience it as an attack that many different people and situations point you to something that is unclear to you. I would propose to instead start looking at it as an invitation. An invitation to discover for yourself what is true, and do the work.

But you don't have to. The choice is yours.

My bad. I get what you're saying. It doesn't have to be agenda-driven from their side or in this case, your side.

[flowboy]

@Parththakkar12  I understand that it seems like everyone is saying the same thing to you, and they know what's the right answer for you. They don't. Everyone is partial and biased and has a limited view (unless they are currently on 5-meo).

So when you do the work, you may find out that they are wrong. But now you found out. You've grown. And now it won't bother you anymore. The irritation is gone because now you know.

That's why irritation is a good cue to follow. It's an invitation to discover something.

[Alexop]

@flowboy agree, I know what you mean, but you know when arguing online, people get offended very easily and go into deffence mode, not learning anything.

[Hulia]

3 hours ago, flowboy said:

My perception is that OP has a very cold view on relationships and sexuality, and it's only possible to arrive at such a cold view if the warmth in your life has been taken away at some point.

You can a have a cold view on everything without having been hurt in the past :))))

Who tells, that you views have to be always warm?   

[Mesopotamian]

@flowboy

Could be hurt in the past by 'all of the above' if that option is there, however, I feel like being distant from family life for my third year now, it is very clear to me that there's ine in a million chance i will be able to develop an honest relationship with an under-developed person,

I would consider someone from q power village who haven't done any work as a person who's not that corrupt, but  the forces of mainstream media which takes you in other direction are strong. Anyone would need many years to free themselves from forces of brainwashing of society, and multiple years to elevate their consciousness beyond that.

Living together is about harmony in the way the partners think and their views on life at the end of the day. This harmony won't exist if both of them haven't done the work to an equal degree, and the staying together still is going to be resolved when an external factor present itself and force one of to partners operate by  what they think true principals.

This might not be so obvious where you come from where people are more developed but in my mind, it makes her of sense and it is crystal clear, almost holding it as a dogma at this point. Could be because of the high contrast between me and the people sounding me.

 

[flowboy]

45 minutes ago, Hulia said:

You can a have a cold view on everything without having been hurt in the past :))))

Who tells, that you views have to be always warm?   

On the topic of love and relationships, no you can't. As an unborn baby you are safe and connected, surrounded by warmth. If everything in your childhood goes right, and your parents don't ignore you or deny you love and warmth, you keep that state of trust in life and relationships. If something goes wrong, you might become cold to protect yourself. But trust in love is the default state.

Because the relationship with the parent becomes a blueprint for the relationship with a mate. If your parents divorce at a young age, you might not want to get serious with anyone. If your parents allowed harm to happen to you, you may fear intimacy and tell yourself that you don't need it. Et cetera et cetera.

It is a mistake to think that your level of trust in life and love is random, and not connected to childhood or past events.

Edited April 15, 2021 by flowboy

[WaveInTheOcean]

On 14.4.2021 at 8:05 AM, Mesopotamian said:

When you spend 500 hours watching Leo's videos, and reading around 20 good books, I suggest you just forget about relationship with the other sex completely. It is just impossible to have an honest meaningful connection with someone who haven't done the work. This is why many sages choose to stay celibate when they progress in their journey.

I've distanced myself from dating for more than a year now, and I can see that there's no way that I sit through and act as if I care to establish a relationship with someone who is way less exposed to the material that I've been exposed to.

Like there's no way I can be close to anybody who are willing to stay the same, have superficial replies, and ask silly stupid questions.

When you open up to someone like that, they think that there's a problem with  you! they start to give you advice! Like I was chatting the other day with someone, and she said "What's wrong? you seem to have something wrong in your life" then ended her conversation with "Try to stay away from toxic people"!

I started to think that only less developed people are able to afford to connect and have a relationship, and of course the vast majority of that ends in a disaster for both of them.

Complete bullshit. You are just not yet able to be authentic with women. So it's all fine. Go develop more, then come out of the cage ?

But note that it's also possible to grow in relationships. A lot. But yes yes, sometimes if the relationship is very toxic, it can be a blockade. So not complete bullshit, sorry, just a tad.

Love ❤️

Edited April 15, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[flowboy]

14 minutes ago, Mesopotamian said:

would consider someone from q power village who haven't done any work as a person who's not that corrupt, but  the forces of mainstream media which takes you in other direction are strong. Anyone would need many years to free themselves from forces of brainwashing of society, and multiple years to elevate their consciousness beyond that.

Living together is about harmony in the way the partners think and their views on life at the end of the day. This harmony won't exist if both of them haven't done the work to an equal degree, and the staying together still is going to be resolved when an external factor present itself and force one of to partners operate by  what they think true principals.

That is all fine and good and I don't disagree with that, but it is a smokescreen.

The issue I see is that you would rather give up than trust that there's people at your level who you can find and meet and have a relationship with. You can sell it to yourself as a rational choice, I don't buy it though.

What are you wanting to protect yourself from? What are you unwilling to feel (again)?

That is my question.

Edited April 15, 2021 by flowboy

[Alexop]

@Mesopotamian Man, do you still live in Iraq? That might tell us a lot

[Recress]

@Mesopotamian, based from the feedbacks here it seems like you're still young. It' quite funny each and every person here project what they think is true and right. Most do that anyways lol..

Nevertheless, it felt like you're waaay to advance or the other way around at your age. My only advice is don't totally close yourself from any life experience. As with anything else, we need relationship to grow (relationship with yourself is utmost important). If what matters to you at the moment is living by yourself and cutting connection to the people you know, then do that. It will be a moment of time you will begin to connect with others (family, friends etc). You mentioned you watched alot of Leo's video right? Most people here does, but like what Leo said himself, only take what you need at the moment. While theories are nice to hear from other 'successful people', experiment with life, that's why you're here.

[Hulia]

10 minutes ago, flowboy said:

On the topic of love and relationships, no you can't. As an unborn baby you are safe and connected, surrounded by warmth. If everything in your childhood goes right, and your parents don't ignore you or deny you love and warmth, you keep that state of trust in life and relationships. If something goes wrong, you might become cold to protect yourself. But trust in love is the default state

1. You see cold opinion as something negative, me not. Because fearing intimacy and cold opinion are not the same.

2. You won´t find any person in this world with a perfect childhood. Things never go right all the time. Even with a relatively safe childhood, shit might happen later

3. I experinced being in love (not in relationship) and not having trust. Because it is possible to be in love without being blinded. And have a cold opinion on a person - on his background, culture, upbringing. It has nothing to do with a fear of intimacy, it´s rationality. YOu can be both - emotional and rational. 

[Mesopotamian]

2 hours ago, flowboy said:

The issue I see is that you would rather give up than trust that there's people at your level who you can find and meet and have a relationship with. You can sell it to yourself as a rational choice, I don't buy it though.

even in this age of information and connectivity, it is a lost cause that you try to find someone to have a relationship with, even if it seems that there's big opportunities in hand, I believe the reality is otherwise, unless you're willing to give up too much of your personality, and self-esteem, and agree to play the game.

There's still few percentage of people who can connect like we're doing here, and lots of factors to be in the right place, at the right time for that connection to blossom into a relationship of any kind.

2 hours ago, flowboy said:

What are you wanting to protect yourself from? What are you unwilling to feel (again)?

I've been traumatized in the past by some of my relationships. so I want to protect myself from that, but also, I can see a scheme here, at this moment in history. The number one reason for relationship is the continuation of life, human life. I simply choose to opt out of this scheme. If I had the choice, which I did, I choose to end life, human life, bring it to a conclusion.
 

[Mesopotamian]

2 hours ago, Alexop said:

@Mesopotamian Man, do you still live in Iraq? That might tell us a lot

Yup... Nevertheless, I've met people from other parts of the world too. I have one British (Stage-Orange) friend only, the rest, we had clashes when they tried to impose their values on me.

2 hours ago, Recress said:

My only advice is don't totally close yourself from any life experience.

Specifically after relationships didn't work for me in the past, and after many tries, I now choose to deliberately close myself to intimate relationships. I choose that I don't want human life to continue, because really, relationships is all about the continuation of human race.

If you can deal with your emotions, if you can satisfy your sex needs, if you can travel in the realm of dreams and get some love from there, then what's the point of giving so much just to be in the presence of another person?

 

[Recress]

You reminded me quite of my old self where I chose to close everything from within, until the time came that I allowed myself just because of an experience that I was not expecting. Of course when I say this, I allowed myself to go out of my comfort and traveling to unknown territories. I met someone whom I thought we will end up romantically but it ended up platonically. I was hoping to end it up the other way but I learned alot about myself just being on those moment. 

Whatever people say on this thread, it will still get filtered on your perspective. The only thing I can say why you made this thread is you want someone to talk and validate that your current chosen path is right (e.i you watch Leo's video and argue with yourself that is the only path). Take note of this kind of trap, even Leo has mentioned this many times. Nothing is absolute and not everyone takes the same path. That's just my take anyways.

The purpose of this forum is mostly community so I would understand why people do what they do here. We have free will, so do whateva you have guys lol

[flowboy]

1 hour ago, Mesopotamian said:

even in this age of information and connectivity, it is a lost cause that you try to find someone to have a relationship with, even if it seems that there's big opportunities in hand, I believe the reality is otherwise, unless you're willing to give up too much of your personality, and self-esteem, and agree to play the game.

There's still few percentage of people who can connect like we're doing here, and lots of factors to be in the right place, at the right time for that connection to blossom into a relationship of any kind.

I've been traumatized in the past by some of my relationships. so I want to protect myself from that, but also, I can see a scheme here, at this moment in history. The number one reason for relationship is the continuation of life, human life. I simply choose to opt out of this scheme. If I had the choice, which I did, I choose to end life, human life, bring it to a conclusion.
 

Where there is multiple reasons, there is (self-)deception.

Either you have given up hope, or you are against it. Can't have it both ways.

Imagine you somehow knew for sure that your perfect partner, with whom you could effortlessly be and share yourself, was waiting for you around the corner, maybe you'd meet her in a few months, and with her, none of the past traumatic experiences will repeat themselves, not even close, and you will achieve massive growth together, provided you kept the option open.

Would you reject her because you are against relationships?

Edited April 15, 2021 by flowboy

[Mesopotamian]

1 hour ago, flowboy said:

 

1 hour ago, flowboy said:

Where there is multiple reasons, there is (self-)deception.

Either you have given up hope, or you are against it. Can't have it both ways.

Would you reject her because you are against relationships?

Hope, what is hope? for me, 'hope' is yet another mainstream abstract idea, I am surprised that you're trying to enter from this door. It is yet another delusion in my current paradigm .

I've had fucked up parents, witnessed four wars during my life of less than four decades in Iraq and many waves of terrorism. I've had many other experiences that I am uncomfortable to talk about in this regards, chased women for almost 15 years, and had lots of traumas from that. And now I'm making sense of all of those and more due to an OK English language skills, and a bit of luck that brought me here.

At a certain stage, I think I've started to have a vision of my life, and then actualizing those visions, so far so good. I am at a point in life where very few little things do surprise me, just occasionally.

Quote

Imagine you somehow knew for sure that your perfect partner, with whom you could effortlessly be and share yourself, was waiting for you around the corner, maybe you'd meet her in a few months, and with her, none of the past traumatic experiences will repeat themselves, not even close, and you will achieve massive growth together, provided you kept the option open.

That would be no more than Disney movie

I can assure you that going to the realms of dream is sometimes enough to have some love, which is what I am doing now, I occasionally take "Alpha-GPC" and go there, get some love, and it's enough! There will be a time when most of us will do the same.

[Mesopotamian]

2 hours ago, Recress said:

Whatever people say on this thread, it will still get filtered on your perspective. The only thing I can say why you made this thread is you want someone to talk and validate that your current chosen path is right (e.i you watch Leo's video and argue with yourself that is the only path). Take note of this kind of trap, even Leo has mentioned this many times. Nothing is absolute and not everyone takes the same path. That's just my take anyways.

I refuse to go meta on this, it is good to live in the dogma level, because this is who I am, this is my true believes, and many just seem to be threatened by it, therefore it could have some validity to it.