Being unwilling to discuss Hitler, Labelling him as evil

[sat2493]

Keep in mind, my bias is I currently am undergoing a process of healing and recontextualization. So I am viewing everything and everybody from that perspective of being needed to be healed.

I was speaking with a friend today about history, and we started speaking about learning from the narratives of cruelty from the past. My friend specifically started circling around a topic of how most people and events from the past we can acknowledge and accept. Then he said, some people are just douschebags. It was pretty obvious he was talking about people like Hitler, Stalin, etc.

This specific reaction of not even being willing to name certain traumatic global events and instigators, and issuing denial by being quick to denounce their existence, thereby leaving that topic as case closed, I find to be very peculiar. I feel like is a sign that not only are we humans as a species not fully recovered or healed from the past, and we aren’t even acknowledging the magnitude and quality of our hurt yet. 

I find this very interesting. What do you think can be labeled from this collective consciousness reaction I just described? Could this denial be the grounds for the same hurt being experienced again?

[Preety_India]

What are you trying to imply? 

 

No level of poverty, traumatic global events, political upheavals, social changes, depression or chaos can ever be a justification for what Hitler did 

What Hitler did was insane, sick, and evil and it shall remain that way. 

 

 

[BadHippie]

@Preety_India

Would you have acted differently if you would have been born in Hitlers shoes? 

What about children who get born into Taliban-Environment and then become suicide-bombers? Are they sick and evil? 

[Preety_India]

3 minutes ago, BadHippie said:

@Preety_India

Would you have acted differently if you would have been born in Hitlers shoes? 

What about children who get born into Taliban-Environment and then become suicide-bombers? Are they sick and evil? 

Yes they are. Not children because they can't think. But the adults definitely. No amount of radicalization or upbringing prevents a person from looking deep into their conscience 

God gave us a soul and spirit for a reason. 

If person cannot see that their actions are deeply inhumane, sorry to say but that the person has already forfeited their right to be considered human or worthy of existence. 

Even animals know better. 

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Preety_India

[BadHippie]

Quote

Yes they are. Not children because they can't think. But the adults definitely. No amount of radicalization or upbringing prevents a person from looking deep into their conscience 

God gave us a soul and spirit for a reason. 

If person cannot see that their actions are deeply inhumane, sorry to say but that the person has already forfeited their right to be considered human or worthy of existence. 

Even animals know better. 

 

Children can think pretty well, at least that´s my personal experience. 

If you look at society at large you can see how culture prevents people from looking deep into their conscience, so I´d disagree on that as well. If people could truly look at their own lives - objectively - simply by getting older, then we wouldn´t have as many problems as we currently have.

What´s the difference between soul and spirit for you? I don´t see a difference personally. 

So you are basically saying the majority of humanity has forfeited their right to be considered human? Just because they do stuff that´s normal in their culture and are inhumane in your personal context? That´s some self-serving kind of view I must say. 

[snowyowl]

@sat2493  

"I was speaking with a friend today about history", 

"What do you think can be labeled from this collective consciousness reaction I just described? "

Have you seen this in a broader context or just with your friend? You could be extrapolating maybe? I don't see it much in my area, although there is some discussion about "politically correct" people having an asymmetric critique of events eg on a racial basis. But with Hitler and the Nazis, it's only a tiny minority in denial about the holocaust, for example. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by snowyowl

[Lews Therin]

If anyone think they would have done anything different in Hitler's shoes... Well, sorry to break it to you... But when you were on his shoes you did those exact thing you are condemning right now... You evil bastard. hahahah

[Carl-Richard]

You demonize what you don't understand.

 

On 13.4.2021 at 9:38 PM, Preety_India said:

Yes they are. Not children because they can't think. But the adults definitely. No amount of radicalization or upbringing prevents a person from looking deep into their conscience 

God gave us a soul and spirit for a reason. 

If person cannot see that their actions are deeply inhumane, sorry to say but that the person has already forfeited their right to be considered human or worthy of existence. 

Even animals know better.

Strong disagree.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Preety_India]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You demonize what you don't understand.

 

Strong disagree.

How do you disagree? 

What Hitler did was so evil, plain and simple. 

 

[Carl-Richard]

3 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

How do you disagree? 

What Hitler did was so evil, plain and simple. 

All you need is a good excuse (meat eater esque "this is how I survive") and the same level of dehumanization you've levied against them ("they're not worthy").

[Preety_India]

7 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

All you need is a good excuse (meat eater esque "this is how I survive") and the same level of dehumanization you've levied against them ("they're not worthy").

I didn't get you 

 

[Carl-Richard]

15 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I didn't get you 

You say your conscience can bypass your socialization. I demonstrated how little socialization it takes to override your conscience.

[Preety_India]

5 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You say your conscience can bypass your socialization. I demonstrated how little socialization it takes to override your conscience.

In what context? 

Basically nothing changed. Hitler is still evil in what he did 

 

You changed nothing. 

 

[Carl-Richard]

4 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

In what context? 

Basically nothing changed. Hitler is still evil in what he did 

Sure. I've been socialized to act suboptimally as well. Am I evil?

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Sure. I've been socialized to act suboptimally as well. Am I evil?

What about your conscience? 

You mean to say that you are simply a donkey that gets programmed by society? 

Where is your inner calling, your inner self? 

 

[Carl-Richard]

19 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

What about your conscience? 

You mean to say that you are simply a donkey that gets programmed by society? 

Where is your inner calling, your inner self? 

I have a conscience, but looking back at my life, there have been many times where I didn't act in accordance with it. Was that all under my control or did my socialization/biology impact it? If so, does that make me evil? Now years later, I can see how I could've acted better. What changed?

Edited April 16, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Forestluv]

The context of the discussion matters. For example, there are many great documentaries and college courses that discuss Nazism and Hitler. That context is very different than apologist wanting to discuss how Hitler was a misunderstood leader who loved is heritage and country. 

[Preety_India]

7 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I have a conscience, but looking back at my life, there have been many times where I didn't act in accordance with it. Was that all under my control or did my socialization/biology impact it? If so, does that make me evil? Now years later, I can see how I could've acted better. What changed?

Yes I understand your point very well. But did you do anything that was fundamentally evil? I bet 100% you didn't. 

There is a certain awareness, a certain inner cognizance and precognitive understanding of how things work and its not just socialization that made you arrive at your present awareness state or level, it's also your subconscious secretly pointing you in the direction of truth and righteousness, notice that the more you connect with your inner awareness and insight, the greater is your shift in the direction of truth, its the battle between the inner mind and the outer mind, the outer mind being easily influenced by external socialization whereas the inner mind remaining calm and wise and still directing through all these hurdles. Did you notice your inner voice in all the outside mayhem? 

 

[Forestluv]

31 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Sure. I've been socialized to act suboptimally as well. Am I evil?

There are degrees. Stealing a candy bar is not on the same level as torturing and killing millions of people.

[Carl-Richard]

7 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Yes I understand your point very well. But did you do anything that was fundamentally evil? I bet 100% you didn't. 

Is lying, stealing, manipulating, and gaslighting for personal gain not evil?

 

7 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Did you notice your inner voice in all the outside mayhem? 

Yes, but my desire to listen to it was still not in my hands so to speak. The suffering was too great. When I finally did listen, it was out of sheer luck and happenstance.

My conscience currently tells me all life is sacred. Your conscience seems to think differently. How did that happen? ?

Edited April 16, 2021 by Carl-Richard