First Experience:12mg 5-meo-dmt (insufflated)

[Don_Avocado]

Hello forum,

I'm not usually one to post, however I feel compelled to share my first experience with 5-MeO-DMT.

To provide some background, I have now been meditating consistently since July 2015. Generally I do vipassana meditation, and would consider myself relatively adept practitioner now, though no expert by a long shot. I came into enlightenment work completely fresh around the time I began meditating; I had no prior knowledge on the subject itself, nor any significant on encompassing subjects such as psychology (the ego, the conscious/unconscious mind etc.), non-duality, meditation or spirituality in general. I had always struggled with emotions, and coming into this work I became immediately fascinated.

In the beginning, meditation was a ball ache. My practice was forced and boring, though something (probably blind faith) kept me going with this rigid routine - mediation everyday for 40 minutes - no exceptions. As I was beginning to lose patience and hope that meditation would bring me enlightenment, I had my first awakening experience around the end on January 2016. As I was sitting in mediation, I was practicing a "free floating awareness" technique as prescribed by Shinzen Young (The Science of Enlightenment)... I suddenly became aware of the nature of my ego - how it's nature is essentially a conceptual repository of past emotions, events, feelings, perceptions and so forth. I struggle to describe the following, as I am still unsure what type of awakening experience this was, but perhaps someone here can help... there was a gentle, progressive rising on energy in the body - it felt as if all this energy was collecting; as if it were going to burst outward... sure enough it did. The conceptual boundaries seemed to dissolve as this energy (my awareness) burst outwards in all directions. Before I knew it, for five minutes I was everything. Sure, bodily sensations were still there, but they were no longer mapped to discreet bodily locations; they were more stars in the night sky that I had become. I didn't appear to be located anywhere spatially - I knew intellectually that I was sitting down, but in experience it didn't feel like there was a floor anymore, or for that matter a body that was sitting. Form had dissolved, and awareness had expanded infinitely. However, it all soon returned as I curiously opened my eyes. Form came back. Everything returned.

The next few months, up until my first 5-MeO-DMT experience were charged by this first awakening experience; I now had my motivation to continue. I had one other experience identical to this one (albeit slightly stronger), but nothing else noteworthy. Although, I now know better than to attach meaning to these experiences, else we create another idea in our head for the ego to grasp for. I also know now that rigid meditation routines can be more neurotic than helpful - it's important we are kind to ourselves, and enjoy our practice.

Anyway, recently I managed to source 250mg of HCl 5-MeO-DMT - no advice will be given on how (sorry). I had never taken psychedelic drugs before, so I had some worries before proceeding - these were mainly fueled by bad trip reports you will all have read about online. Though, for some reason, I took Leo's advice on blind faith (don't know why, but I trust the guy) and tried it out. It was just after midnight, and everything was quiet; I had made all the relevant precautions to ensure I felt safe, secure and comfortable (get all the potential neuroticism inducing factors out the way before taking the drug). Earlier in the day I had taken a loading dose to be more certain the drug agreed with me (2mg) - this was fine, and gave me some confidence in what I was about to take.

I measured out 12mg of the substance and snorted approx. 6mg into each nostril. I then queued up some meditation music and settled back calmly into bed. Tipping my head back I let the substance sit there for 5-10 minutes or so. Let me just say, for someone new to anything except weed, this was disgusting. Snorting gives no pain at all, but once it has settled, the substance tastes revolting - like paint stripper at the back of your throat. You can feel it dripping into your throat, and there is a mild burning sensation. However, I didn't panic; I stayed perfectly calm and still, as per my meditation experience. I let go and surrendered. Leo's advice is very good though on this guys, extremely comprehensive and reliable in my experience. The onset was a strange. At this time I've only had a small dose, so I can't speak for higher doses, but I can see how it might freak people out. It kind of felt like being at home with a cold, feeling fragile on a winter's day. There was some trembling, some small difficulty with breath, which I imagine might develop into shivering or shaking (maybe nausea) with higher doses, but the trick is to be OK with it. Let it be... my thoughts were as it happened - "I've taken it, so whatever happens, fuck it". Just as if you were stuck at home with a nasty cold, just don't think about it, let it be, don't react irrationally. You will be fine.

Then after 15 minutes or so from initial snorting, the peak of the experience hit me. The trembling calmed, and my mind stilled. I find it very hard to put this experience into words to be honest. It was kind of similar to the state I entered when I had the awakening described above. Though this time, it endured whilst my eyes were open. There were no hallucinations, or weird sounds, no scary entities - nothing like that. I was still a body at this dosage, though I was in no way attached to it. Everything in normal experience was still there, but my god it was all so beautiful. There was nothing special about it, no psychedelic patterns or colorful lights; it was all just beautiful the way it was - without any emotional judgement or reactivity toward it all. I felt as if I had no boundaries, like I was consciousness of the universe itself. Everything was in perfect clarity - crystal clear. No sadness, no happiness. Just bliss - I now know what the word bliss actually means. It isn't what you all think. It's the state of being where attachment is relinquished, and everything in experience (including the ego) comes into clarity from the observer perspective - the true self (at least in my experience). The biggest thing I learned during this experience was that there is absolutely NOTHING to pursue. The truth is right here in front of us all - we are it with zero cognitive effort... I like Rupert Spira's analogy - we are like a screen with images projected onto it; it is impossible for the screen to seek/find itself within those images, as it is the very fabric of them. Thoughts, concepts and ideas keep our attention, and enlightenment cannot be found within them. When the mind is still, and thoughts, concepts and ideas fade, we recognise our true nature; this is what I believe 5-MeO-DMT can help us with. It is only our attention to and identification with said thoughts, concepts and ideas that perpetuate the separate self; that make us feel as if there is something out there to find. It's already here guys - you are already it. You just haven't realised yet; our true nature is aware understanding.

The "best bit" of the experience lasted perhaps 15 minutes, though it felt a lot longer. I kept checking the clock during the trip. Now 5 hours later, I still have a serene sense of calm about me. There is so much less emotional resistance to everything, i.e. talking to people, doing errands, housework etc. It's all just fine the way it is. Although I've seen the truth, I can feel the state of bliss fading... but that's perfectly fine. It will come and go. Maybe one day it will endure in my experience. Who knows. Right now though, I need to focus on the here and now - I need to play the game of life.

I still have so many more experiments to come with 5-MeO-DMT, but to be honest, this experience on 12mg would have been enough to give anyone "seeking enlightenment" the hope and motivation they need to move forward in their practice. Overall, and extremely positive and insightful experience.

As Leo also mentions in his video, I do not recommend this substance to anyone with only elementary familiarity with psychology, spirituality, and especially non-duality and meditation... I can see for sure how some may mistake this as some ethereal, lonely, cold and desolate experience. If you've studied this stuff, you would recognise it straight away for what it is. If you've had a non-drug induced awakening experience, you'll also know what I am talking about. This substance is not the answer, nor is it a catalyst. It is important you do not get attached to these experiences.

So there you go all, hope this helps some of you - please comment below or PM me (no questions about sourcing please) with questions and your experiences - I would love to share. I will keep you all posted with more experiments with 5-MeO-DMT, and higher dosages.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Don_Avocado
Posted early by mistake

[cetus]

1 hour ago, Don_Avocado said:

The biggest thing I learned during this experience was that there is absolutely NOTHING to pursue. The truth is right here in front of us all

@Don_Avocado Nice! That needs to be said a lot more often around here. So many people talking about "getting to a higher state", getting to that "level", "searching", "attaining" ect. Like it's something at another time or place that it will happen. Many don't see that it's right here now cloaked only by a self imposed illusion that it exists somewhere else. Would you agree that it's possible to experience what we really are under all the BS without the use of 5MeO ? I've never done it before but I know what you experienced from your report. It sounds to me like what it does best is to remove those self imposed filters. Thanks for sharing that.

[Dodo]

28 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

@Don_Avocado Nice! That needs to be said a lot more often around here. So many people talking about "getting to a higher state", getting to that "level", "searching", "attaining" ect. Like it's something at another time or place that it will happen. Many don't see that it's right here now cloaked only by a self imposed illusion that it exists somewhere else. Would you agree that it's possible to experience what we really are under all the BS without the use of 5MeO ? I've never done it before but I know what you experienced from your report. It sounds to me like what it does best is to remove those self imposed filters. Thanks for sharing that.

So how is it right infront of our face but most here can only see it with shrooms. and how can one on a shroom trip say its right here, now, always and nothing needs to be done to see it, if they had to change their chemistry to see it. Obviously this realization requires a (very specific) physical change in the brain? 

Edited October 24, 2016 by Dodoster

[Don_Avocado]

@cetus56 that's not a problem dude, glad to have helped. Yes, you're absolutely right, whilst there is some "truth" in that 'realising the truth' can take time, there is nothing "out there" or to "attain" or "pursue", so to speak.

I believe the reason people struggle making this realisation, and maintaining it, is simply down to the language which we speak. We either pursue one wretched extreme or another - it's either one concept or it's not, if that makes any sense?.. probably a bad analogy (don't want to mislead people), but in the egoic state, I feel like we're like robots too fixated with our own programming to recognise our fundamental, empty nature. All concepts etc. arise within this sandbox of emptiness.

In answer to your question... yes, I think so. As I mentioned in the last post, my awakening experience (not enlightenment - I'm not claiming I am) showed me the truth, though I was too early on in my practice to recognise it... the issue with awakening experiences is that whilst they show us the truth, our ego creates lies... for the best part of this past year, I have made out that experience to be some amazing, blissful state that I HAVE to return to... I admit my meditation habit fell into a neurotic disarray for quite some time in pursuit of re-attaining this state... for me, this has been an unfortunately yet necessary "waste of time". I now know it was the ego grasping; I had been caught by the "spiritual ego" - there's great video by a guy called Rali (Naked Reality - YouTube) in response to Leo on this topic.

I think if you were to bring total maturity and modesty to your meditation practice and daily life, and admit you (at any point) may have fell pray to your own bullshit again (the ego, the spiritual ego - whatever you want to call it), and focus on improving your concentration (ability to let go), I'm confident you can realise the truth.

My advise (as a fellow "seeker"), don't beat yourself up, be kind to yourself in your practice and humble yourself. You probably will go down some rabbit holes; but going down them, you'll learn their structure and nature - there are no mistakes. Mistakes are concepts. Just pay attention to your reality - sensory phenomena. Let the ego arise, and subside. Like a petulant child, just allow it to be. Don't grasp at the concepts it produces, or try to manipulate / organise them like some kind of computer program. Just rest in being man; take your time doing stuff, enjoy what's here. Don't be caught in the trap that life is either one thing or another. Life is perfect; we sometimes just struggle to see through the clouds.

Imagine some turbid water. If we do not interfere with the water (with the ego), what happens to the particles (concepts)? What's left to see?

Edited October 24, 2016 by Don_Avocado

[Don_Avocado]

45 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

So how is it right infront of our face but most here can only see it with shrooms. and how can one on a shroom trip say its right here, now, always and nothing needs to be done to see it, if they had to change their chemistry to see it. Obviously this realization requires a (very specific) physical change in the brain? 

Hey pal... who knows...

In my experience, 5-MeO-DMT simply suppresses the ego (at at least makes it translucent) for a short period of time via chemical change. Alone this does nothing; it leaves us confused as to what just happened (i.e. ego death)... Though for those of us with a reasonable intellectual understanding of previously mentioned topics (main post), (I believe) we can comprehend said experiences, understanding them intellectually (relating them to the literature out there) as well as experientially. I think it's important (although not essential) that both aspects (experiential and intellectual) are satisfied - again, in my experience, the ego loses strength when intellectual conclusions are drawn, with the appropriate experiential evidence from our own experience to validate said conclusions. I believe our insight into the truth (and it's immediacy) develops, as our ego loses strength.

Just my hypothesis; don't take it for gospel - i'm not claiming to be enlightened, this is simply what has been working for me recently. 5-MeO-DMT only produces experiences, not enlightenment... albeit, very helpful experiences if we use them for developing insight, and not recreation.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Don_Avocado

[cetus]

54 minutes ago, Don_Avocado said:

@cetus56 that's not a problem dude, glad to have helped. Yes, you're absolutely right, whilst there is some "truth" in that 'realising the truth' can take time, there is nothing "out there" or to "attain" or "pursue", so to speak.

I believe the reason people struggle making this realisation, and maintaining it, is simply down to the language which we speak. We either pursue one wretched extreme or another - it's either one concept or it's not, if that makes any sense?.. probably a bad analogy (don't want to mislead people), but in the egoic state, I feel like we're like robots too fixated with our own programming to recognise our fundamental, empty nature. All concepts etc. arise within this sandbox of emptiness.

In answer to your question... yes, I think so. As I mentioned in the last post, my awakening experience (not enlightenment - I'm not claiming I am) showed me the truth, though I was too early on in my practice to recognise it... the issue with awakening experiences is that whilst they show us the truth, our ego creates lies... for the best part of this past year, I have made out that experience to be some amazing, blissful state that I HAVE to return to... I admit my meditation habit fell into a neurotic disarray for quite some time in pursuit of re-attaining this state... for me, this has been an unfortunately yet necessary "waste of time". I now know it was the ego grasping; I had been caught by the "spiritual ego" - there's great video by a guy called Rali (Naked Reality - YouTube) in response to Leo on this topic.

I think if you were to bring total maturity and modesty to your meditation practice and daily life, and admit you (at any point) may have fell pray to your own bullshit again (the ego, the spiritual ego - whatever you want to call it), and focus on improving your concentration (ability to let go), I'm confident you can realise the truth.

My advise (as a fellow "seeker"), don't beat yourself up, be kind to yourself in your practice and humble yourself. You probably will go down some rabbit holes; but going down them, you'll learn their structure and nature - there are no mistakes. Mistakes are concepts. Just pay attention to your reality - sensory phenomena. Let the ego arise, and subside. Like a petulant child, just allow it to be. Don't grasp at the concepts it produces, or try to manipulate / organise them like some kind of computer program. Just rest in being man; take your time doing stuff, enjoy what's here. Don't be caught in the trap that life is either one thing or another. Life is perfect; we sometimes just struggle to see through the clouds.

Imagine some turbid water. If we do not interfere with the water (with the ego), what happens to the particles (concepts)? What's left to see?

Yes, a first hand account. Nicely worded too. When I had my first little taste of an awakening I realized it's like stars in a daytime sky.  Just because you can't see them through the blue sky with clouds, doesn't mean their not always there.

[Tancrede Pouyat]

Are there any special requirements for storing it ?

[Dodo]

41 minutes ago, John Flores said:

@Don_Avocado I hope to try this drug. From what you described in your experience, it doesn't seem so magical, but I'm sure it will once one does.

When I was a kid I used to try to just be. But then my teacher would say "pick up your pencil" and immediately my heart sped up. Or my father rushing in the room and saying "What are you doing? Are you doing your homework? Good" and my anxiety shot up and I simply could not be...I was permanently  scarred.

 

I wish I could be free of my baggage.

That's funny, yesterday I remembered a situation from my childhood when I was staring blankly at a wall and my mother would just scream at me and tell me to focus and keep solving math problems  I just wanted to be!!! Ah I was such an enlightened kid

Edited October 24, 2016 by Dodoster

[Don_Avocado]

@John Flores I try not to embellish my experiences; the reason we suffer is because we attach so much meaning to these things. In my experience, the baggage we carry (i.e. anxieties, depression) is perpetuated by our attachments; we're just not conscious of them.

You can be free my friend; I hope this substance can help you to remove the blinders, and see the true nature of reality... although you can get there without it (my opinion - see previous posts above).

[Xpansion]

The first experience you described is 

13 minutes ago, Don_Avocado said:

@John Flores I try not to embellish my experiences; the reason we suffer is because we attach so much meaning to these things. In my experience, the baggage we carry (i.e. anxieties, depression) is perpetuated by our attachments; we're just not conscious of them.

You can be free my friend; I hope this substance can help you to remove the blinders, and see the true nature of reality... although you can get there without it (my opinion - see previous posts above).

Spot on. One of the very first things I learnt when I begun practicing insight meditation 5 - 6 years ago is not to place any importance on feel good experiences that happen. I too have had some absorption jhana experiences but then life just went on as usual and I had to let them go because they just become another thing to crave after which then hinders practice. Because these experiences can be so intensely blissful you can become stuck which will stunt progress. Same goes for drugs of any kind.

[Don_Avocado]

@Xpansion absolutely, it's all meaningless. I do not condone mindless drug consumption of any kind - if it is to be done, it must be done only experimentally and with education, maturity & awareness... unfortunately, we do tend to get stuck grasping at said experiences from time to time.

To become dependent on a psychedelic would be to miss the very essence of the truth. It's right here; we are it. It's transparent and formless, and unfathomably beautiful. It's merely clouded.

Psychedelics can be used as a tool help realise the truth, though so can vipassana (as per my first awakening)... but the important thing to remember is that the experience itself, the blissful state, as defined conceptually by the ego is not the truth. It's just another concept.

All experiences are meaningless guys. Do not make concepts, goals or ideas out of them.

[Xpansion]

This may or may not be helpful - "THE JHĀNAS are eight altered states of consciousness, brought on via concentration, and each yielding a deeper state of concentration than the previous. In teaching the eightfold path, the Buddha defined right concentration to be the jhānas. The jhānas themselves are not awakening, but they are a skillful means for concentrating the mind in a way that leads in that direction, and they are attainable not only by monastics, but also by many serious lay practitioners" Leigh Brasington

Its probably important to recognise that an 'amazing' , 'blissful' , 'out of body'  etc etc experience is not awakening and so to be careful when trying to convince yourself that it is. 

[Capethaz]

 @Don_AvocadoFor what you describe, I think your first experience was the Third Jhana. What do you think? http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/Main/MCTB+The+Third+Jhana

Edited October 25, 2016 by Capethaz

[Xpansion]

26 minutes ago, Capethaz said:

@Xpansion For what you describe, I think your first experience was the Third Jhana. What do you think? http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/Main/MCTB+The+Third+Jhana

Hi Capethaz,  I'm not the OP.  Did you mean to ask Don avocado?

Edited October 25, 2016 by Xpansion

[Capethaz]

@Xpansion sorry, wrong reference

[Leo Gura]

@Don_Avocado Good work, but you have no idea yet how deep the rabbit hole goes

You haven't broken through yet. Haven't seen God yet

Nothing can prepare you for 30mgs.

P.S. You're losing the majority of your dose down your throat. If you want the full experience, there should be zero drip down your throat. To ensure that, don't tilt your head back, flip your head entirely upside down for 15 minutes. If you taste it down your throat, you're losing much of the dose.

Keep at it.

Absolute Infinity awaits!

[Azrael]

Nice to see another Psychonaut going the path here. Keep posting, I'm very interested.

When you snort the MeO, snort it with the least amount of energy up your nostril (so that it stays there). Put a finger on the nostril opening, do the other one, keep a finger on that one and then tilt your head upside down and massage it into your nostrils. For me, with this technique, I begin to get heavy effects 3-5 minutes after I do that, with nothing even remotely running down my throat.

I wanted to take my next dose a few days ago, but I'm a little sick right now. So I gotta wait until next weekend. I'm thrilled.

[Travis]

@Don_Avocado

I'm interested in your experience precisely because you have never done any psychedelics prior to your experience with 5-meo. Azrael, who is quite experienced with psychedelics and has been very helpful to me in many ways on the forum, suggested working my way up with milder psychedelics before jumping to 5-meo. I believe that that is a very good strategy, but I also don't have much of a desire to mess around with most psychedelics. I've contemplated it for a pretty long while now and I don't have much interest or see the usefulness in it much for me. 

I do, however, want to experience 5-meo for direct awakening purposes. The main issue, it seems, with psychedelics is the more potent they are and the less experienced one is with them, the worse the situation could turn out (fill in the blank with whatever meaning of "worse" this could end up being).

So, with all of that background info, here are my questions: 

Can you expound a bit on the concerns you had about jumping straight to 5-meo without prior experience with other psychedelics? And do you have anything else you could add regarding mentally preparing yourself for the undertaking? And finally, under what conditions would you recommend someone to take 5-meo who has little to no prior experience with psychedelics?

Best, 

Travis

[Feeble Dave]

@Don_Avocado

To add to @Travis's questions, I would like to know if you experienced any heart concerns, like fast beating, and how it affected you mentally.

Thanks for the thread!

[Don_Avocado]

@Capethaz from what I read on that link, that sounds extremely similar to what I experienced....