Anyone Here Not Racist?

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I think for most people having a positive view on something carries some implicit inherent negativity towards its opposite.

Yea, it gets tricky. If someone says they prefer to date white people, that seems harmless. Yet what if I say I prefer to have white friends? What if I say I prefer to have white co-workers? 

I could say that I have no negative feelings toward people of color. I simply have positive views of white scientists and I'm neutral toward black and brown scientists. My preference is to work with white scientists. . . To me, that has a sketchy vibe to it. 

[Raptorsin7]

@Forestluv Agreed, what you're pointing is the problem imo. I'm aware of my own bias and prejudices and there are certain ethnic features I clearly prefer.

It seems harmless until you consider how that affects your social status, jobs, networking etc. 

If there's a beautiful girl with a classic desirable western appearance vs the opposite the way i interact with both people are going to be very different, and that difference becomes significant when you extrapolate to the entire population.

13 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

If someone says they prefer to date white people, that seems harmless. Yet what if I say I prefer to have white friends? What if I say I prefer to have white co-workers? 

Do you think preference for features in dating is dramatically different for preferences in friends/relationships? It seems like one is acceptable and one is not but when you drill down I think any preference with respect to ethnic features/culture is going to create problems. 

Once people start verbalizing and understanding their preference things start to get ugly lol. But if you don't question it and just go off instinct you can completely miss this.

[Forestluv]

7 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Do you think preference for features in dating is dramatically different for preferences in friends/relationships? It seems like one is acceptable and one is not but when you drill down I think any preference with respect to ethnic features/culture is going to create problems. 

Once people start verbalizing and understanding their preference things start to get ugly lol. But if you don't question it and just go off instinct you can completely miss this.

I haven’t thought about it like this before. If someone said “I’m more attracted to white/Asian/Hispanic etc  people”, I don’t think anyone would think much of of it. Yet there is a question on OKcupid on “would you date someone from another race?” Some people say “no”, which has given me pause. Would not even considering the possibility of dating another race be racist? 

Perhaps it doesn’t seem so obvious because romantics relationships are so personal and intimate. If the question was “would you be friends with someone of another race?”.  Saying “no” to that would seem racist. As well, I imagine many people spend most of their personal time with people of the same race. 

I suppose “preferences” can cause problems. In many ways, homogeneous populations can be simpler. My college went from 90%+ affluent white, down to about 60%. The increase in diversity made things more complex, like proper ways to interact, what is fair, how calls the shots etc. And students gravitate toward similar races. Whenever I have small group activities and allow students to choose their own groups, white students aggregate and minority students aggregate. If we have two buses for a field trip, one bus while be nearly all white and the other nearly all minority. They don’t naturally mix up. I think it’s subconscious. The only exception I’ve noticed is with sports. If students of different races are on the same sports team, they are more likely to aggregate. 

Yet I’ve never thought of this as racist. I thought it’s just human nature toward what is more familiar.

[Tetcher]

18 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Tetcher I think for most people having a positive view on something  carries some implicit inherent negativity towards its opposite.

Take dating preferences. I like woman with straight hair and fair skin, and the preference seems harmless enough when you consider there are significant portions of the population that desire these traits, theres going to be a negative effect on this groups lacking these characters.

If you have 10% of a pop with curly hair and darkskin but 95% of the pop prefers the opposite features that disparity is going to have real effects and in the modern climate this is a racist issue. 

 

15 hours ago, Forestluv said:

Yea, it gets tricky. If someone says they prefer to date white people, that seems harmless. Yet what if I say I prefer to have white friends? What if I say I prefer to have white co-workers? 

I could say that I have no negative feelings toward people of color. I simply have positive views of white scientists and I'm neutral toward black and brown scientists. My preference is to work with white scientists. . . To me, that has a sketchy vibe to it. 

The first few posts were deriving racism out of dating preference, I was answering to that. Workspace should not be subject to positive or negative bias regarding race.

[Forestluv]

8 minutes ago, Tetcher said:

The first few posts were deriving racism out of dating preference, I was answering to that. Workspace should not be subject to positive or negative bias regarding race.

I find the different situations interesting. 

If someone says "I prefer to date white people", most people wouldn't think much of it. That's just their preference.

Yet what if someone says "I prefer to have white friends". I think most people would see that very differently and rank that as more extreme. Is it ok to say "I prefer to date white people" yet not ok to say "I prefer to have white friends"? Both dating someone and friendships can be very intimate. 

To extend it one step further, if someone says "I prefer to work with white people", is that wrong? Is that just their preference?

[Consept]

33 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

I find the different situations interesting. 

If someone says "I prefer to date white people", most people wouldn't think much of it. That's just their preference.

Yet what if someone says "I prefer to have white friends". I think most people would see that very differently and rank that as more extreme. Is it ok to say "I prefer to date white people" yet not ok to say "I prefer to have white friends"? Both dating someone and friendships can be very intimate. 

To extend it one step further, if someone says "I prefer to work with white people", is that wrong? Is that just their preference?

I love this discussion cos its rooting out a lot of things we all probably havent thought about before. Ive had similar experiences whilst at uni where majority black and asian people would hang out with each other and majority white people would hang out, one thing i noticed though is that it wasnt necessarily along racial lines, it would more likely be what kind of culture you grew up in, so it was very normal for a white person from the 'hood' to hang out with black people or a black person from the suburbs to hang out with white people. So it wasnt a case of we dont want you in our group because of your race, although im not sure if class is any better. 

The question of is it racist to have a dating preference is very tough especially when you extend it to friends or work mates. It seems to be allowed to say when it comes to dating but pretty racist for the others, so i guess the question is, is it all racist or is it just not racist to say you only want a certain race of friends? Why has society come down so hard on saying you only want white friends but then allowed it to be acceptable to say you only date white partners ?

[Forestluv]

18 minutes ago, Consept said:

Ive had similar experiences whilst at uni where majority black and asian people would hang out with each other and majority white people would hang out, one thing i noticed though is that it wasnt necessarily along racial lines, it would more likely be what kind of culture you grew up in, so it was very normal for a white person from the 'hood' to hang out with black people or a black person from the suburbs to hang out with white people. So it wasnt a case of we dont want you in our group because of your race, although im not sure if class is any better. 

I also think there are initial "preferences" in which surface appearance is the main factor. 

I often teach a freshman level science lab that has six tables, with 4 charis per table (24 total). It is their first semester so they don't know each other. If I let them naturally choose chairs, there is a very strong correlation between gender and race at each table. Females aggregate together, males aggregate, white students and minority students. On the first day of class, I would say outward appearance (gender and race) are the primary factors. I would predict that class is a secondary factor because class is more subtle. I suppose their might be a few signs of class in their clothing. 

I also observe the behavior of "stragglers" that come late, which is fascinating. A student may come two minutes late and there are only two chairs left. It could be a female white student and the only two chairs left - both chairs at tables mostly male minority. She often goes to a table with female and/or white students and then realizes that there are only 4 chairs. At times, they look for another chair that they can pull up. Often, there is an awkward pause when deciding which empty seat at minority student tables to take. And there are also some students that roll with it and seem to be like "whatever". Occasionally, a student will actually get a chair from a minority student table and drag it to a table that already has 4 students so they can be with similar. 

(I used an example of a white female student, yet I've observed it in all directions. For example, if a minority student came late and only two chairs were open at tables with white students, there is often a similar period of awkwardness). 

My impression is that this is nearly 100% subconscious and none of the students are consciously thinking "I don't want to be with those students". If I asked them why they chose the chair they did, I predict the vast majority would say "I don't know. It was open and I just sat here". 

I don't think class plays a big factor on the initial day, since class distinctions are more subtle than gender / race distinctions. Yet I would be curious how much class plays a factor as students get to know each other. Let's say a first generation white student from a poor rural area chooses a table with white students. Yet then it becomes clear that the white students are from an affluent suburb and are pretentious and talking down to him. I would predict he wouldn't feel like he fits in and may later choose a table with minority students that he can relate better to / speak their language etc. 

I also think another secondary factor would be being on the same sports team together, or band or a sorority etc. 

I'm curious if students that have grown up in an inner city are more comfortable being around various races since their community has had various races. 

I'm also curious if diversity of social media would have an influence in in-person choice preferences. Would a student that interacts with a diverse racial mixture on social media have reduced racial preference in-person on the first day of class?