Posted April 12, 2021 Morality is relative, so in the absolute sense, it's all just goodness spawned out of God's love to explore all of his infinite creations. So would you let God's desire to experience rape play out or intervene to stop it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 12, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Holygrail said: So would you let God's desire to experience rape play out or intervene to stop it? This "you" is also God, God can imagine God stop God from raping or not, both scenario is love, God, and God experiences both. Edited April 12, 2021 by m0hsen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 12, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, m0hsen said: This "you" is also God, God can imagine God stop God from raping or not, both scenario is love, God, and God experiences both. I just get a lot of kickback from people for being so relativistic when it comes to morality. I know I would want to intervene but I also know that I am also that rapist, so why stop and resist a part of who I am? Edited April 12, 2021 by Holygrail Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 12, 2021 Of course I would intervene. Applying "God" or "the Absolute" to moral situations can be very tricky. It can very, very easily lead to the most horrible atrocities, if one doesn't understand it correctly. People tend to forget that: The suffering of the person who's being raped is also God My desire to intervene is also God There's a nice story told by Sri Ramakrishna that I like to bring up when questions like these are being raised: Once a master and his disciples were gathered in the jungles of India. The Master had been teaching his disciples: "Everyone is God, everything is God, and we should bow down to God in everyone and everything". Now, the next day, when the disciples were out in the jungle gathering fruit for their meals, off in the distance was heard the bellowing, trumpeting and crashing of a great bull Elephant, wild with rage; And, all of a sudden, he was crashing through the jungle precisely in the direction of the assembled group of disciples. The Mahout, (the man who rides the elephant) was shouting to all in front of him, "Get out of the way! Get out of the way! The elephant is mad!" Seeing the approaching terror, all of the disciples began to run, except for one; He remembered the Master's words, "God is in everyone and everything and we should bow down to God in everyone and everything." The elephant was thundering towards him and the Mahout was shouting for him to get out of the way, but, remembering his Masters words, he bowed down to the approaching elephant. The elephant, plunged towards him, picked him up with his trunk, smashed him to the side and thundered on through the jungle. The disciples came back after the elephant had gone and finding him unconscious they brought him to the Master. When he came to his senses, he was given tea and then the Master asked him : "Why did you not run away?" The disciple replied, "Master, you yourself had said that God was in everyone and everything and to bow down to God in everyone and everything. I have simply followed your words". The Master replied: "It is true, God is in everyone and everything. There is God in the Elephant, but, there is God in the Mahout too, and the Mahout said; 'Get out of the way!'" From the absolute perspective, there's no reason why you should intervene. But equally, there's no reason why you should not intervene. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 12, 2021 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Holygrail said: I just get a lot of kickback from people for being so relativistic when it comes to morality. I know I would want to intervene but I also know that I am also that rapist, so why stop and resist of part of who I am? If you see a bear running towards you to tear your body to pieces, do you still think how that bear is also consciousness is also you and there's no reason to stop him from doing so and just sit and watch your body being eaten? Of course not. So of course I'd also stop God from raping and help if i could, because this very desire to help is also God's desire and God's will. If I choose to help, it's God's love, God's will. If I choose to not help it's also God's love, and God's will. Edited April 12, 2021 by m0hsen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 12, 2021 (edited) This is a classic case of conflating the relative with the absolute. You intervening is also "letting God's experience play out". Choosing either scenario is anyway the absolute. All moral questions are relative in the first place, so any answer to such a question would be a relative one. The absolute is just what is the case; invoking it makes no difference. If you use it as an excuse to be an asshole, you fundamentally misunderstand what it is. Edited April 12, 2021 by Carl-Richard Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 12, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Tim R said: From the absolute perspective, there's no reason why you should intervene. But equally, there's no reason why you should not intervene. I can appreciate this perspective, it brings clarity to me now... Some relative perspectives are just more superior to others to the wellbeing of humanity, like selflessly stopping the selfish rapist Edited April 12, 2021 by Holygrail Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 12, 2021 (edited) So see this all as play of God and free yourself from any morality, shoulds and should nots, but think with your heart, so I'd definitely listen to my heart's call to intervene and I'd do so if i could, and see this as God's love, will. Edited April 12, 2021 by m0hsen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 12, 2021 @m0hsen What if your heart is telling you to commit the rape? Or is there some kind of implicit morality inherent to living from the heart Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 12, 2021 Of course i would try to stop it, but i think it would be for selfish reasons because helping people and getting thanks makes me feel heroic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, This said: Of course i would try to stop it, but i think it would be for selfish reasons because helping people and getting thanks makes me feel heroic. This Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 12, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said: @m0hsen What if your heart is telling you to commit the rape? Or is there some kind of implicit morality inherent to living from the heart No, no one's heart tell to rape another being and cause so much suffering. It's obvious for me when i decide to do something it comes from my heart or my ego. Heart is about love, unity, selflessness, freedom, wisdom, truth etc. Edited April 12, 2021 by m0hsen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 12, 2021 Just my 2 cents Head voice = ego, superego, and uncontrolled imagination Heart voice = awakened conscience and purified emotional center In spiritual sleep, conscience is buried in the subconscious. "To have a free mind is to be a universal heretic." - A.H. Almaas "We have to bless the living crap out of everyone." - Matt Kahn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 12, 2021 @Holygrail 1. God is Unconditional, doesn't have any desire. 2. Only ego can engage in the question "What would you do IF...". There is no separated you who have a choice. 3. Saying that something is relative is the same as saying it's a lie, there is only absolute sense, if it makes sense. 4. Infinite means not finite, there is only ONE infinite creation. Not Two. 5. The best what you can do is to realize your true nature by letting go questions like this, by not putting attention on thinking. Once there is a self realization only then the real help can happen by itself, by being yourself, at "Home". What a dream, what a joke, love it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 12, 2021 1 hour ago, m0hsen said: This "you" is also God, God can imagine God stop God from raping or not, both scenario is love, God, and God experiences both. I noticed a lot of word play and dancing... and not an answer in sight! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 12, 2021 To not intervene would be a serious lack of consciousness on your part. No more to be said on the matter really Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Holygrail said: I just get a lot of kickback from people for being so relativistic when it comes to morality. I know I would want to intervene but I also know that I am also that rapist, so why stop and resist a part of who I am? What if you were the one getting raped? Would you want someone to intervene, or would you just scream "am a god having an experience" as someone ploughs into your ass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, wwhy said: I noticed a lot of word play and dancing... and not an answer in sight! Because you still cannot understand how God is everything. Also I did clarify more in the above posts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, wwhy said: just scream "am a god having an experience" as someone ploughs into your ass. Hahahaha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
