If there is no right or wrong then how does karma work?

[mandyjw]

If you aren't seperate from anything, but you think you are and reject some stuff, then that stuff goes whirling away from you and eventually, like a boomerang, comes back asking, "Do you love me now? Do you love me now? Do you love me now?" 

[machiavelli]

14 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

If you aren't seperate from anything, but you think you are and reject some stuff, then that stuff goes whirling away from you and eventually, like a boomerang, comes back asking, "Do you love me now? Do you love me now? Do you love me now?" 

I was talking about why we suffer then if we are all are one. And everything is love. 

So it means if I hate you it is also love. Because only love exist.

See there is a paradox.

Edited April 12, 2021 by machiavelli

[vladorion]

Negative karma is like subtle traumas that are created when you do actions that are not in alignment with your soul. And those traumas then play out in your life like traumas usually do, so you can heal them.

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, machiavelli said:

So it means if I hate you it is also love. 

Says who? How does it feel to hate someone? Awful. You can deem that something is love, but what you want is not to stick a label of love on something, what you want is to feel it. 

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, mandyjw said:

If you aren't seperate from anything, but you think you are and reject some stuff, then that stuff goes whirling away from you and eventually, like a boomerang, comes back asking, "Do you love me now? Do you love me now? Do you love me now?" 

[Jake Johnson]

I find the very concept of heaven and hell to be a difficult pill to swallow - the idea of reward and punishment when it seems clear that we are what our brains were born as. In the 19th century a railroad construction foreman named Phineas Gage suffered a trumatic brain injury when a premarture detonation sent a tamping rod through his left frontal lobe. Miraculously he survived but became a very different person. Prior to his injury he was an upstanding sort of guy; honest and forthright. Afterward he became prone to violent mood swings, cursing, and even cheating people out of money. So Phineas Gage should go to hell for eternity because someone else's mistake caused him personality and behavioral changes? No? But someone else should go to hell because by accident of birth they entered the world with the left frontal lobe that an accident in adulthood created in Phineas Gage? In seems that who we are is to a fair extent out of our hands.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Jake Johnson
Typo

[machiavelli]

@Jake Johnson I agree . But what is shown in NDE's is that if someone did wrong in their past life then the same consequences will encounter again . Its like lessons of love.

It is direct one and one conservation with the White light. 

This is completely against that everything is love and their is no evil. It seems like we have just labelled everything as love eventhough NDE's show karmic debt concept. Also it seems god punishes us through our past life deeds.

For ex- If we murder some in this life will it not reflect in next life time? And in next life time we will get murdered by the same person whom which we murdered. 

Then this is clearly karmic concept of what Religions mentions.

[lmfao]

6 hours ago, wwhy said:

The question was very obviously asked about at the human level. So my responses and POV is from the questions POV.

Not very obvious to me he's asking from a "human level" or "relative POV". This dude is asking about karma and God, and making absolutist claims on these things. He's already made up his mind about the nature of reality, that God exists, and then that he's punishing us. I couldn't care less if every person here likes the word God, I'll challenge it if I think it's bullshit. 

What are we supposed to do, not get him to question himself? To just agree with his assumptions and framing? Does that do anyone favours? 

The basic thing is just that if anyone wants answers they'll have to be willing to open up and investigate. 

 

If you wish to use this language, he's talking about "relative" and "absolute" truth at the same time in what he's saying. I prefer to just say he's just asking about truth. 

The label "human level" is a distraction here (especially because he's talking about "God"), it's just about truth. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by lmfao

[Forestluv]

5 hours ago, machiavelli said:

I was talking about why we suffer then if we are all are one. And everything is love. 

So it means if I hate you it is also love. Because only love exist.

See there is a paradox.

There is no paradox. You are conflating absolute and relative.

Look around the room you are in right now. Imagine there is One Everything in The Room. There is One Room that is Everything. You then say "The pencil is different than the computer. The pencil is not the Room!! This is a paradox!!". . . It's not a paradox. It is a conflation between the One Room and separating things within the Room. 

One Love is the the One Room of Everything. . .  love and hate are separate things within the room. 

If a mind cannot grok this it can be helpful to go prior to the sticking point. If the mind is stuck on Love vs love, it means the mind does not yet understand Everything vs every thing. 

[YourConstruct]

On 11/04/2021 at 11:15 PM, The0Self said:

No such thing happens. Yada is all there is; you are yada; Yada programs itself with certain impairments (i.e. as various forms of life including various types of human) in order to learn new lessons about what it means to be yada.. A principle one of these impairments is forgetting that one is reality itself, which is yada.

Spot the difference.

Yada creates..yada observes..yada becomes..yada programs..yada regrets.yada gets lost in his own yada dream....yada now knows what it means to be yada again..yada then realizes its own confusing dream...yada then realizes yada was confusing itself in its own dream..what a cringe relief...yada now learn its own lessons about what it means to still be yada, that's how dumb yada is.

Edited April 13, 2021 by YourConstruct

[Lyubov]

karma = memory 

[GreenLight]

On 2021-04-12 at 2:20 PM, mandyjw said:

If you aren't seperate from anything, but you think you are and reject some stuff, then that stuff goes whirling away from you and eventually, like a boomerang, comes back asking, "Do you love me now? Do you love me now? Do you love me now?" 

Yeah. Good point there.

Edited April 14, 2021 by GreenLight

[Eternity]

But all these discussions over karma or why God would love everything good or evil are just a waste of time.  Once again you have been tricked by the Ego mind into believing such things are actual debatable topics, when all of it is a big lie.   Nothing is true in this delusional dreamworld.  You cannot rise above the delusional thinking of Ego without the realization that everything in a delusion is imaginary.  You discuss these subjects as though they are hard fact when they are really only another story the Ego has spun for you to continue on in the same delusional state of mind.  I recommend all of you who have not looked at the Tao Te Ching go listen to it being read in it's English translation on you tube.  It take little effort as it is just about the length of an hour in which every one of your questions on these subjects are already answered.  These are short concise answers or statements of truth.  Tao Te Ching translates to "The Book of the Way" for those of you who aren't familiar and may have been an early treatise by the Buddha.  There are, I believe, 75 statements of truth, some of them with examples of how these statements play out in a practical way.  These are simple to grasp principles that answer the questions of why we have seemingly dual qualities in our dreamworld such as good vs. evil, strong vs. weak, light vs. dark, hot vs cold etc etc.  I listen to it repeatedly to assimilate these simple statements.  You want to incorporate them into your mind and personally I can't  just listen once and then remember them all.  So I listen to it over and over again until I can almost recite them along with the reader.  Just give it room and time to sink in.

[GreenLight]

36 minutes ago, Eternity said:

But all these discussions over karma or why God would love everything good or evil are just a waste of time.  Once again you have been tricked by the Ego mind into believing such things are actual debatable topics, when all of it is a big lie.   Nothing is true in this delusional dreamworld.  You cannot rise above the delusional thinking of Ego without the realization that everything in a delusion is imaginary.  You discuss these subjects as though they are hard fact when they are really only another story the Ego has spun for you to continue on in the same delusional state of mind.  I recommend all of you who have not looked at the Tao Te Ching go listen to it being read in it's English translation on you tube.  It take little effort as it is just about the length of an hour in which every one of your questions on these subjects are already answered.  These are short concise answers or statements of truth.  Tao Te Ching translates to "The Book of the Way" for those of you who aren't familiar and may have been an early treatise by the Buddha.  There are, I believe, 75 statements of truth, some of them with examples of how these statements play out in a practical way.  These are simple to grasp principles that answer the questions of why we have seemingly dual qualities in our dreamworld such as good vs. evil, strong vs. weak, light vs. dark, hot vs cold etc etc.  I listen to it repeatedly to assimilate these simple statements.  You want to incorporate them into your mind and personally I can't just listen once and then remember them all.  So I listen to it over and over again until I can almost recite them along with the reader.  Just give it room and time to sink in.

Another good post 

[This]

27 minutes ago, Eternity said:

But all these discussions over karma or why God would love everything good or evil are just a waste of time.  

I agree. But i think even Tao Te Ching is a waste of time as well as any other philosophy or teaching which attempts to give advice on how to live. It can be entertaining, though!

The one who doesn't need any explanation or philosophy or practice in order to live, somehow someday gets convinced that he or she needs an explanation or philosophy or practice or whatever and so the seeking begins.

[wwhy]

On 4/13/2021 at 2:46 AM, lmfao said:

Not very obvious to me he's asking from a "human level" or "relative POV". This dude is asking about karma and God, and making absolutist claims on these things. He's already made up his mind about the nature of reality, that God exists, and then that he's punishing us. I couldn't care less if every person here likes the word God, I'll challenge it if I think it's bullshit. 

Hmmm... not very obvious you say? How did you know what his already made up his mind about it then...

On 4/13/2021 at 2:46 AM, lmfao said:

What are we supposed to do, not get him to question himself? To just agree with his assumptions and framing? Does that do anyone favours? 

You could simply answer the question as asked, from the "human level". Why are you all trying so hard to ram you absolutists believes down everyone's throat, regardless of what the frame is? Are you so desperate to hold on to your frame and preach to others? Why? Chillout. Talk. Have conversations with others in their frame.. what have you got to loose?

Edited April 14, 2021 by wwhy

[wwhy]

On 4/12/2021 at 1:35 PM, The0Self said:

God wouldn't be all-knowing without knowing what it's like to not know, would it? 

Stop it with the intentionally confusing NLP word-play already. What are you saying? Is God all knowing or not?

[wwhy]

On 4/12/2021 at 1:35 PM, The0Self said:

God wouldn't be all-knowing without knowing what it's like to not know, would it? 

Ok.. was a bit flippant with my first response. Its actually a good question, ama answer it...

There is a big difference between KNOWING not knowing, and BEING not knowing.

[lmfao]

6 hours ago, wwhy said:

Hmmm... not very obvious you say? How did you know what his already made up his mind about it then...

I was saying I don't see at all why you were framing it as an issue of "human level". All I saw was a question and discussion. He asked about God and Karma, that's all. 

In my response to you however, I was entertaining and being diplomatic to your framing and language, even though I don't see its helpfulness or accuracy. I elaborated a bit on the framing not resonating to me. 

I said it seems like he already made up his mind, but not to antagonise. Just me commenting on how repetitive and non-engaged he seemed to me. I would use such supposedly charged language in questioning myself or anyone.

I'm not gonna stick firmly or argue about this judgement though, it's just what it seemed. 

6 hours ago, wwhy said:

You could simply answer the question as asked, from the "human level". Why are you all trying so hard to ram you absolutists believes down everyone's throat, regardless of what the frame is? Are you so desperate to hold on to your frame and preach to others? Why? Chillout. Talk. Have conversations with others in their frame.. what have you got to loose?

You can read the first posts I made in this topic and see if I engaged well.

I now see though what your issue is, its this broader thing of people just parroting absolute truths without actually engaging with or paying attention to the person that they're talking to. Ofc my agenda/POV will be that you're projecting that concern or contention against me without basis. 

I'm not ramming anything. But I am being a m̶a̶s̶s̶i̶v̶e̶ small bit prickly and defensive eh. But I don't like coming across or being so serious though lmao. I was aggressive though as well there, sorry about that. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by lmfao

[wwhy]

On 4/14/2021 at 8:12 PM, Eternity said:

Once again you have been tricked by the Ego mind into believing such things are actual debatable topics, when all of it is a big lie.   Nothing is true in this delusional dreamworld.

What then, are we to do in this delusional dreamworld.

Edited April 16, 2021 by wwhy