Monism vs non-dualism?

[Sine]

I'm in university and during the philosophy-like subjects, dualism and monism get mentioned a lot. Nobody in the school books ever mentions non-dualism and I'm confused about what the difference is between monism and non-dualism. I would really appreciate it if someone could explain it to me. 

 

[Fadl]

Monism means that there is only one God. 

Non-dualism means that you and God are one. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

1 hour ago, Fadl said:

Monism means that there is only one God. 

Non-dualism means that you and God are one. 

Simply put. Well said.

[Sine]

But in philosophy, there is not always a God implemented in those concepts. Monism doesn't mean one God necessarily, right? it can mean that there is only matter or only mind for example...  

[WaveInTheOcean]

18 minutes ago, Sine said:

But in philosophy, there is not always a God implemented in those concepts. Monism doesn't mean one God necessarily, right? it can mean that there is only matter or only mind for example...  

True. Or that mind and matter are two aspects of the same "one thing" (hence monism).

From the eng wiki: 

Quote

 

Monism attributes oneness or singleness (Greek: μόνος) to a concept e.g., existence. Various kinds of monism can be distinguished:

Priority monism states that all existing things go back to a source that is distinct from them; e.g., in Neoplatonism everything is derived from The One. In this view only one thing is ontologically basic or prior to everything else.

Existence monism posits that, strictly speaking, there exists only a single thing, the universe, which can only be artificially and arbitrarily divided into many things.

Substance monism asserts that a variety of existing things can be explained in terms of a single reality or substance.
Substance monism posits that only one kind of stuff exists, although many things may be made up of this stuff, e.g., matter or mind.

Dual-aspect monism is the view that the mental and the physical are two aspects of, or perspectives on, the same substance.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monism

[Tim R]

Non-Dualism is more subtle and sophisticated than Monism. 

Monism states that everything is one. 

"Non-Dual" on the other hand is not the same as "one". Because "one" implies "many". And the nature of Non-Duality is such, that it has no opposite, because it doesn't exclude anything.

So when you're saying that reality is non-dual, you're solving the problem of having to say that reality is some particular way (like monism does).

And if reality would be some particular way, it would exclude the possibility of it being any other way. Therefore, Monism excludes the possibility of reality being "many" instead of "one". 

But existence can't be exclusive of anything. Therefore it's non-dual. Non-exclusive. Non-oppositional. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

23 minutes ago, Tim R said:

Non-Dualism is more subtle and sophisticated than Monism. 

Monism states that everything is one. 

"Non-Dual" on the other hand is not the same as "one". Because "one" implies "many". And the nature of Non-Duality is such, that it has no opposite, because it doesn't exclude anything.

I think we are splitting hairs now, but you got a point. I wrote something about non-duality last summer when I was in a state of mania:

Quote

Reality is non-dual. Non-duality means: Not one, not two. The question is: do you get it or not?

For example, let's take the extremest duality: ego - god . Obviously complete opposites. Right?
Well, not so fast. Apply non-duality to it:

Reality is not: ego.
Reality is not: god.  (either)
Reality is not: "god AND ego".
Reality is:   ____________________    (Or you 'could' say: "ego-god").

Hehe.

 

Edited April 11, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[Fadl]

1 hour ago, Sine said:

But in philosophy

Philosophy is just a map, it is not reality. 

Monism means the one, the true one is God.

[Sine]

16 hours ago, Fadl said:

Philosophy is just a map, it is not reality. 

Monism means the one, the true one is God.

But then why does Leo use the term Non-duality and not monism!!!!!????!!?!???!??!?!??!??!?!? 

[Tim R]

1 hour ago, Sine said:

But then why does Leo use the term Non-duality and not monism!!!!!????!!?!???!??!?!??!??!?!? 

Because as I said, Monism is not quite the same as non-duality. Monism is exclusive, non-duality isn't.

Quote

I think we are splitting hairs now

True. Yet, it is a very subtle distinction. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Tim R

[mandyjw]

The concept of one implies a single thing, and implies borders around that thing. All other numbers including two are multiples or variations of the concept "one". So "one" is the primary seperation. 

That's why if you are saying there is NO seperation, it is more accurate to say that there are not two things, (non-dual literally means not two) than to say that everything is one. "Everything is one" gives existstance and non-existance, and the concept one is the birth of duality before we even get to two. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by mandyjw

[Fadl]

6 hours ago, Sine said:

But then why does Leo use the term Non-duality and not monism!!!!!????!!?!???!??!?!??!??!?!? 

He doesn't know everything.

[WaveInTheOcean]

I like to use the term 'Oneness' for God/Love/Non-duality

But it's true, in a sense 'oneness'/'monoism' implies "zero" or "two".

Non-duality - as a concept vs monism - is more 'hardcore' in that it more directly points to the fact that everything is undivided, 'one without two", everything absolutely "IT" (God/Consciousness/etc.)

Yet we could say even the term Non-duality implies 'Duality' ? but duality is only an apparant reality, actually 'unreal', actually non-dual, love, god, -- just your mind dividing reality up into individual pieces, in order for the Mayadream to go on, in order to survive, in order to try and make sense of it all, even tho it's an impossible task hehe, cos it's Infinite, its all just God/Oneness. Just your imagination as God:-)

Read the eng wiki on Non-duality if you're interested. To sum up, monism and Non-duality are VERY related concepts, two different flavour of words almost pointing to the same "thing" :-)

Non-duality more directly points to the fact that all opposites 'go together", i.e. yin yang ☯️, good evil, life death, etc... Apparant opposites, yet completely inseparable (=you can't have one without the other = they are ultimately completely identical. Evil is Good. Hate is Love. Something is Nothing. Up is Down. Darkness is Light. Ego is God. Death is Life. And so on:-))

Edited April 13, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[Ryan R]

@Sine

I use the two more or less interchangeably on a regular basis, still there are indeed distinctions.

As concepts they are words that point to the same Reality, but "monism" is relayed from "western" (mostly Greek as far as I know) wisdom and spiritual traditions while "non-dualism" comes more by way of the same in the "east".

I find I use "non-dual" more when speaking from a bottom-up perspective and "monist" more when speaking top-down. Also, far more lay people who have not studied philosophy have heard of "non-dualism" than "monism". "Non-dualism" is more useful in communicating with the masses because of this and because it gives a starting reference point to, and is just a bit easier to digest for, those still stuck in dualism.

When it comes to the morphology of the words I prefer "monism" because linguistically the prefix "non" applied to the root "dualism" implies that "non-dualism" is dependent on "dualism" as an origin of being, and this is out of alignment with Truth. "Monism" is ultimately more precise and it's use is more integris.

Both of these words and concepts lend themselves to more expansive and meta definitions. Simply put, "non-dualism" means "not two, but One", and "monism" means "all is One". We of course know that the not two, but One is None, and the all that is One is None. The baseline for both of these concepts that conventionally point to One is metaphysically None, as in not 1, but 0, infinitely. "Non-dualism" and "monism" are essentially synonyms both conventionally and metaphysically. 

"Monism" should not be confused with "monotheism" because conventionally they are defined and typically used very differently. From a meta perspective, sure, there is alot of overlap and similarity there. It could be said that the concept of monism contains the belief of monotheism, but monotheism is by definition only a belief and the vast majority of monotheist peoples would not accept monism or non-dualism as even beliefs. Again, "monism" essentially states "all is One". Monotheism is "the belief in only one God as opposed to many", not "all is One God". These are important distinctions for effective communication.